Jazz's loyalties.

frostytheplebe

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
There is something I'm rather off about when it comes to Jazz. Was he a member of the Mandarins before the Thor's Hammer incident and the destruction of Goddard? It seems his whole reason for going after the Claw was revenge. Still I could see taking out the Claw and its pilots, but wanting to topple the entire Confederation over what was clearly the mistake of one carrier (if you believe Jazz's argument) seems both on the extreme side and misplaced.

Its one thing to want revenge, but he seemed to genuinely believe in the Mandarin movement.
 
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Get the impression that Goddard was the turning point, I might be wrong but I don't think he signed up to Confed intending to be a traitor....
 
Well, it makes even less sense when you notice that it was the Kilrathi that killed he brother, after all.
 
Delance said:
Well, it makes even less sense when you notice that it was the Kilrathi that killed he brother, after all.
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Well... that gets a bit more complicated... I mean a hurricane comes in without warning and wrecks your home. You don't get mad at the hurricane, you get mad at the people who were supposed to warn you it was coming so you could weather proof your home. I've seen this thought process used before in stories where there is a vengeful character.

The Kilrathi are soldiers doing what soldiers do. Its in their nature. The Tiger's Claw was supposed to be there defending them, but they weren't!

Bad analogy, I know, but you get the point.
 
frostytheplebe said:
Well... that gets a bit more complicated... I mean a hurricane comes in without warning and wrecks your home. You don't get mad at the hurricane, you get mad at the people who were supposed to warn you it was coming so you could weather proof your home. I've seen this thought process used before in stories where there is a vengeful character.

The Kilrathi are soldiers doing what soldiers do. Its in their nature. The Tiger's Claw was supposed to be there defending them, but they weren't!

Bad analogy, I know, but you get the point.
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Actually, this is a good analogy. Some people's minds immediately turn to the defenders when something goes wrong, rather than the attackers. In Jazz's mind it was the Tiger's Claw that was responsible for the death of his brother, not the Kilrathi because the TC wasn't where it was supposed to be.

Now, if the Tiger's Claw had been there and was destroyed in the defence process, then Jazz couldn't really have been vengeful against the survivors.
 
-danr- said:
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Look at that shit-eating grin! If the animations were there, I bet he'd elbow Blair and go "Huh? HUH?"

-danr- said:
Get the impression that Goddard was the turning point, I might be wrong but I don't think he signed up to Confed intending to be a traitor....
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I agree. I think the situation with Goddard just deranged Jazz, though I expect he wasn't the most stable individual in the first place. Checking names off a list as he murders them for an imagined offense, keeping trophies from his victims... the guy's practically a serial killer.

I also wonder about Jazz's involvement with the ambush of the Tiger's Claw. We know he stole Blair's flight recorder on the Austin, but Jazz seems to take personal responsibility for the destruction of the ship, and Blair acts as though Jazz was directly responsible for the deaths there. Maybe he told the Kilrathi about the Claw's location and vulnerable tactical situation, or maybe he even performed a little preemptive sabotage while on-board during SM2; the guy does like his bombs.
 
Catnip said:
Look at that shit-eating grin! If the animations were there, I bet he'd elbow Blair and go "Huh? HUH?"



I agree. I think the situation with Goddard just deranged Jazz, though I expect he wasn't the most stable individual in the first place. Checking names off a list as he murders them for an imagined offense, keeping trophies from his victims... the guy's practically a serial killer.

I also wonder about Jazz's involvement with the ambush of the Tiger's Claw. We know he stole Blair's flight recorder on the Austin, but Jazz seems to take personal responsibility for the destruction of the ship, and Blair acts as though Jazz was directly responsible for the deaths there. Maybe he told the Kilrathi about the Claw's location and vulnerable tactical situation, or maybe he even performed a little preemptive sabotage while on-board during SM2; the guy does like his bombs.
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My guess is that he was responsible for informing the Kilrathi of the Claws whereabouts and intended mission.

However, I do have to ask about the "Trophies" bit, where was it said that he took trophies from his victims?
 
J "Phantom" D said:
the TC wasn't where it was supposed to be.
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...if you listen to Jazz. I'm pretty sure the Claw wasn't meant to be at Goddard until Confed had already heard something was wrong- at that point they were sent full speed off towards Goddard to clean up whatever kats were there. Somehow I doubt that the true story of the Sivar became public knowledge- after all, people would probably go nuts if they thought the Kilrathi had such a thing and could build another- and so one of the stories that might get around is the idea that the Claw failed to be there when it should have been.
 
Max Gene said:
...if you listen to Jazz. I'm pretty sure the Claw wasn't meant to be at Goddard until Confed had already heard something was wrong- at that point they were sent full speed off towards Goddard to clean up whatever kats were there. Somehow I doubt that the true story of the Sivar became public knowledge- after all, people would probably go nuts if they thought the Kilrathi had such a thing and could build another- and so one of the stories that might get around is the idea that the Claw failed to be there when it should have been.
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Ah! But if you look up the dialogue (I can't find it right now), I do believe that he makes reference to the fact that the Claw diverted from her course to take out troop transports on her way to Goddard (which was a mission in the SM1 if I am remembering correctly), which resulted in the destruction of the colony. It was Jazz's assertion that if the Claw had headed straight for the colony they would have been there on time to destroy the Sivar before it destroyed the colony.

EDIT: Found the quote:
JAZZ: Ten Years Ago the Kilrathi attacked the Goddard Colony,
The Tiger's Claw was supposed to defend those people
But you detoured to attack an enemy troop ship!
My brother died with everyone else on Goddard...
...all because of you and the Tiger's Claw!
I swore I'd kill everyone on that damned ship---
And I nearly did. Spirit was so easy...
...and I only had four to go...you, Angel, Paladdin and Maniac...
 
Yeah, he's talking about the second mission of SM1, where one of your objectives is to destroy a Dorkir. I doubt that sending a pair of Hornets on a short side-mission slowed the Claw down, though, and Goddard was probably already a crater by then anyway.

J "Phantom" D said:
However, I do have to ask about the "Trophies" bit, where was it said that he took trophies from his victims?
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Jazz tells Angel that he kept Maverick's flight recorder disk from 10 years ago as "kind of a souvenier." Maybe I should have said "trophy" instead of "trophies"... but Jazz also has that nice shiny medal that Prince Thrakhath gave him.
 
Catnip said:
Yeah, he's talking about the second mission of SM1, where one of your objectives is to destroy a Dorkir. I doubt that sending a pair of Hornets on a short side-mission slowed the Claw down, though, and Goddard was probably already a crater by then anyway.



Jazz tells Angel that he kept Maverick's flight recorder disk from 10 years ago as "kind of a souvenier." Maybe I should have said "trophy" instead of "trophies"... but Jazz also has that nice shiny medal that Prince Thrakhath gave him.
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Yes, that's true, but it's all in perceptions I guess. I highly doubt that two hornets taking out a Dorkir affected the Claw's ETA
 
frostytheplebe said:
Perhaps... or perhaps the Dorkirs were meant to divert the Claw's attention long enough to bring down Goddard.
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Indeed, this was the perception I took at the time - seemed strange really, if the Claw was making 'full speed' to Goddard, why did they deviate for just one troopship.
 
I too find it REALLY hard to believe that the Claw would've ever diverted, especially when the Hornets could very easily fly out and make rendezvous with the Claw on time on its current course very easily. Again I say that somewhere this story got distorted before it got to Jazz... or that he himself distorted it.
 
Max Gene said:
I too find it REALLY hard to believe that the Claw would've ever diverted, especially when the Hornets could very easily fly out and make rendezvous with the Claw on time on its current course very easily. Again I say that somewhere this story got distorted before it got to Jazz... or that he himself distorted it.
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It's more likely that he distorted it himself, to justify his anger and hatred.
 
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