Is it possible that the confederation could have won the kilrathi war after the Battle of Earth without the Temblor Bomb or Behemoth

Jdawg

Commodore
WC2 definitely did not have more ships. @-danr- mentioned that there's a limit of ten ships per navpoint in WC3. Well, I don't recall if WC2 had any sort of limit of ships per navpoint, but it had a limit of 16 ships per mission. Of those, only 10-12 were generally usable - you had to take into consideration the player, his wingman, the Concordia, her escort destroyer, and sometimes a wing of fighters on patrol around the Concordia. So, you couldn't possibly dream about big battles. The most you would have is a couple of capships and about four enemy fighters.
I dont know either but I remember one of the earlier missions in wc2 where you had to drop of mail to a planet and you meet downtown and at the nav between the concordia and the planet there are a lot of ships
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
That one is a case of seeming like more ships than it is (because you're alone for the first time.) The mission is Niven B and there are only five Sartha.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
There were a lot more ships in wc2, and in wc2 it was one of the few times we got to see Capital ship on capital ship action. In wing Commander 3 I felt like they used the Victory as an excuse because of the limitations of the technology at the time. so you were involved in skirmishes not the actual War in wc3. that's one reason I like Saga so much better it feels like a true War
I wouldn't say there were a lot more ships in WC2. People seem to forget about the capship-on-capship action in WC3. For starters, the Victory gets a whole escort fleet. You see them in space, and you also get some gorgeous views from the bar and bridge. That's just fantastic.

There's a similar number of missions in WC2 and WC3 where multiple cap ships appear. Take the Ariel System - there's 12 cap ships in just three missions, and it leads right into Caliban where you have both the Sheffield and Coventry forward deployed to other nav points where they engage Kilrathi destroyers.
I think Chris is right that the WC3 capship battles sometimes get forgotten. My favorite mission in the entire series is WC3's Hyperion 2. Every nav point has a capship battle starting with destroyers battling it out, then a destroyer against a Kilrathi carrier, and ending in the Ajax blasting away at a Fralthi II. It's just great fun to watch those ships blasting away at each other with all their turrets.

The fact that the Victory has escorts you see throughout the game is a great touch and furthers the immersion that you are on the frontlines of the war. Especially the couple of escort missions where one or two of them show up and then the big reward with Hyperion 2 and you're escorting the "big boys" and get to see one of the best fireworks shows in the series.
 

Sylvester

Vice Admiral
WC2 definitely did not have more ships. @-danr- mentioned that there's a limit of ten ships per navpoint in WC3. Well, I don't recall if WC2 had any sort of limit of ships per navpoint, but it had a limit of 16 ships per mission. Of those, only 10-12 were generally usable - you had to take into consideration the player, his wingman, the Concordia, her escort destroyer, and sometimes a wing of fighters on patrol around the Concordia. So, you couldn't possibly dream about big battles. The most you would have is a couple of capships and about four enemy fighters.
Quarto, did that limit not exist in WC1? I seem to remember missions with more than 16 total ships - for example BiFrost with the Supply Depot had 18 total enemies, and then if you include you, your wingman, the escort Hornet by the Claw and the Claw itself, that would be 22 total ships appearing in that mission.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Quarto, did that limit not exist in WC1? I seem to remember missions with more than 16 total ships - for example BiFrost with the Supply Depot had 18 total enemies, and then if you include you, your wingman, the escort Hornet by the Claw and the Claw itself, that would be 22 total ships appearing in that mission.
You remember correctly. WC1 had a higher limit - IIRC, 32 ships, though maybe it was 24. There was a couple of missions in SM1 or SM2, where just the kill count of the enemy fighters could be higher than 20, so I think the limit had to be 32.

The question of why WC2 could handle fewer ships than WC1 is an interesting one, for sure. I assume this was a memory management issue (remember: WC2 came out a year after WC1, so it didn't have significantly more powerful hardware at its disposal, while its various new features meant memory was a lot tighter), but this doesn't necessarily make sense, because the big memory issue was having more ship types (each type requiring a full set of sprites to be loaded into memory). Simply having more ship shouldn't have been such a big deal, given that most of these ships will not be seen together. So, there may have been some other issue.
 

YCDTD

Captain
What I missed most in WC3 from WC2 were escorting bombers or having escorts when I was in a bomber. It did not seem realistic and took me out of the game. A minor complaint though.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
That also sounds like a case of something cool in WC2 having a bigger impact in memory than what was actually in the game. We really only have escorts in WC2 once or twice. Most of the time in WC2, you're just flying Broadswords/Crossbows without escorts just like in WC3.
 

Star Rider

Rear Admiral
Gwynedd Mission C where you escort Kilroy, and Ghorah Khar Mission C where you escort Alexia, and Yeager against the Kilrathi Strike group preparing to attack Olympus Station, if Memory serves in WC2.

SO1 while they weren't official escorts, Bear along with his wing man join you, and Hobbes for the attack on the Fralthras. Most of the time though they would get themselves shot down or shoot me in the back trying to hit the same ship as me. Only way I could ever win that mission was to pull a Maniac, and have the Fralthras shoot each other by flying between them.
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
I don't agree that WC2 feels like more of a war that WC3 despite WC2 being my overall favorite in the series. However I do feel like the bombers in WC3 don't really feel like bombers... They play more like super heavy fighters that happen to carry a ton of missiles. It does make the gameplay feel a bit less varied in some senses, though perhaps that sense is reduced at harder difficulties? Overall I feel like WC3 does sell the desperate nature of confed's situation well enough.
 
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