Is it just me...

Saturnyne

Vice Admiral
Or do I tend to disappear, reappear and then disappear again?

Anyway, I'm back. Again. Only this time, it should be more permanent since I finally got my own computer and don't need anyone's permission to use it. mwahaha.

So, what did I miss?
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Yeah, soon you'll be able to buy this cool new WC game. Or download it from Kazaa, if it's really popular.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Only an idiot would do anything potentially illegal (ie, downloading GBA games) on IRC. It's too easy to legally prove you did it. That's why e-mail and IRC is the prefered place for law enforcment authorities to go when they want to arrest someone. With Kazaa, is way harder. This is relevant, since a very high percentage of the stuff downloaded from Kazaa is not "legal" from a copyright point of view.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Originally posted by Delance
Only an idiot would do anything potentially illegal (ie, downloading GBA games) on IRC. It's too easy to legally prove you did it. That's why e-mail and IRC is the prefered place for law enforcment authorities to go when they want to arrest someone. With Kazaa, is way harder. This is relevant, since a very high percentage of the stuff downloaded from Kazaa is not "legal" from a copyright point of view.

What exactly makes kazaa harder than IRC? And when was the last time (or any time) someone was busted for dowloading roms on irc?
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Originally posted by Delance
That's why e-mail and IRC is the prefered place for law enforcment authorities to go when they want to arrest someone.
Heh, I thought authorities usually prefer to do that sort of thing in person :).

Seriously though, I'm not sure to what degree IRC logs and e-mails would be admissible in court. After all, how difficult it is to fake a piece of electronic text?
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Originally posted by ChrisReid
What exactly makes kazaa harder than IRC? And when was the last time (or any time) someone was busted for dowloading roms on irc?

Kazaa hides the identity of their users. Kazaa is not under US jurisdiction, so US courts can't find the true identity of the users.

About IRC, it's somewhat easy to figure out the IP of the people that user IRC. Even if they are a little smarter and user a way to disguise the true IP, it's much easier to bust someone one IRC than someone on Kazaa.

Originally posted by Quarto
Seriously though, I'm not sure to what degree IRC logs and e-mails would be admissible in court. After all, how difficult it is to fake a piece of electronic text?

I agree it's very dangerous that a piece of text can be used to arrest someone. It would not be difficult at all to alter data. However, IRC logs, E-mail and that sort of data have already been accepted in court. People was arrested based on this kind of evidence, even tough it generally lead to a deeper investigation.

Originally posted by Aries
well, the world certainly doesn't have a shortage of idiots :D

Melek: "It continue to be a good source of idiots, my lord"
Thrakkath: "Idiots we have no shortage of"
 

TC

SubCrid
Originally posted by Delance
Kazaa hides the identity of their users. Kazaa is not under US jurisdiction, so US courts can't find the true identity of the users.

Hehe, sure you can... as soon as you start downloading a file from someone you're connected. You just check the IPs you're connected to and bang, you know who they are...

About IRC, it's somewhat easy to figure out the IP of the people that user IRC. Even if they are a little smarter and user a way to disguise the true IP, it's much easier to bust someone one IRC than someone on Kazaa.

Not really.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Originally posted by Delance
I agree it's very dangerous that a piece of text can be used to arrest someone. It would not be difficult at all to alter data. However, IRC logs, E-mail and that sort of data have already been accepted in court. People was arrested based on this kind of evidence, even tough it generally lead to a deeper investigation.
Hmm.

Nah. Sorry, but I have to be sceptical about something as crazy as this. Unless you know of actual cases like this, I'd say this is just an urban myth.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Urban Myth? Yeah, sure.

Well, here is it how it usually goes... they get evidence from e-mail and irc logs, and ask for a warrant to search the suspect’s house and apprehend his computer. They send it to forensics lab and get as much evidence as they can.

So, of course, it's unlikely that someone would have to go to court solely with email and irc logs. It's more than enough, however, to start the investigation that will end up with the conviction. Since they usually get much better stuff when they got their hands in the computer itself, there's no need to rely solely on such data. E-mails, Irc logs and other similar material has been widely accepted in a variety of legal cases.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
http://www.cybercrime.gov/fastlane.htm

As part of the conspiracy, the defendants communicated with each other on private Internet relay chat (IRC) channels, such as "#fastlane" and "#sdfm," and via direct IRC communication, which allowed them to have real time discussions about Fastlane activities. The members allegedly held weekly meetings on Sunday nights to discuss such matters as inviting new members and finding new sources of pirated software. Access to SDFM and other warez sites was carefully limited to authorized users entering through known Internet Protocol addresses with pre-established IDs and passwords. To conceal their activities, the defendants used screen names instead of true names and port bouncers to disguise the true Internet Protocol addresses of their computers and the computers that hosted the warez sites.

Part of the government's case to prove the conspiracy was based on IRC activity. One of the guys indicted, who claimed he wasn't even part of "fastlane", pledge guilty on conspiracy charges. He talked about the case on www.isonews.com, before the US government apprehended the domain due to an unrelated case. Not the site, so far, since until some time ago they were operating directly from their IP, without a domain.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
The indictment alleges that the defendants used this site to upload and download copyrighted software between Jan. 7 and Sept. 20, 2000.

Hehe, so the government ran a Warez server for the better part of the year? Way to police, police-o.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Originally posted by Delance
Part of the government's case to prove the conspiracy was based on IRC activity. One of the guys indicted, who claimed he wasn't even part of "fastlane", pledge guilty on conspiracy charges. He talked about the case on www.isonews.com, before the US government apprehended the domain due to an unrelated case. Not the site, so far, since until some time ago they were operating directly from their IP, without a domain.
This just proves my point, however. Obviously, IRC logs are pretty much worthless for prosecution - otherwise, the undercover assignment wouldn't have lasted over nine months.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Hehe, so the government ran a Warez server for the better part of the year? Way to police, police-o.

The government runs lots of warez servers on their sting operations. :) They also do all sort of illegal things, too. It's kind of bizarre... In 2001 the US revealed that the largest warez site on the US was actually run by FBI, as part of that large operation.

Originally posted by Quarto
This just proves my point, however. Obviously, IRC logs are pretty much worthless for prosecution - otherwise, the undercover assignment wouldn't have lasted over nine months.

IRC logs was part of their case to prove the conspiracy. They run a long investigation to get more people. Your premise is wrong, your conclusion is completely mistaken. The reason they waited some time had nothing to do with the IRC logs, at all.

Is like small-time drug dealers that the police doesn't arrest so they can catch the big fish. The government choose to leave this people alone for a while so they can run a long investigation. Now, by your logic, that makes small-time drug dealing legal and perfectly safe, and being catch selling small amounts of drugs useless for prosecution.

Since it costs a lot of money to go after people trading warez, they will select only targets of some value. It's virtually impossible to go after everyone. It's impracticable, but it's not impossible from a legal point of view.

E-mail, chat logs and that sort of thing is widely used in a variety of legal cases.
 

Phillip Tanaka

Swabbie
Banned
Hey, isn't the downloading of roms and such frowned upon by the message board? I remember a similar discussion where I asked, and all roms were illegal I was told. And another recent thread when members were swabbied. What goes?
 
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