Interesting tidbit about Border Worlds/Gemini

Minuteman

1st Lieutenant
This is likely old news for most of you.

...now that you're still here. I've been reading through the Wing Commander Bible, and found it interesting that the author indicates that Privateer is set in the "Border Worlds" (capitalized) .

Found that fascinating. My understanding after reading a few of the posts here was that the Gemini sector was unaffiliated with the "Border Worlds" in the early 2670s (I realize that the BW didn't truly exist in 2669). Just found it cool/interesting that the "Border Worlds" as a proper entity seemed to exist at the time of the publication of the WC Bible.

Just to confirm - Gemini DIDN'T participate in the Border Worlds conflict, right? They stayed Confed?

Anyway - there's some good stuff in there!
 

Ijuin

Admiral
Well, not every Border World joined the Union of Border Worlds, any more than every slaveholding state joined the Confederate States of America.
 

Captain Obvious

Rear Admiral
Well, not every Border World joined the Union of Border Worlds, any more than every slaveholding state joined the Confederate States of America.

This. They're referring to two different things.

A border world is exactly what it says on the tin, a world on the border of human inhabited space.

The Union of Border Worlds on the other hand is a sovereign government that some systems joined and others didn't. That's different and more specific than simply being a border world.
 

Minuteman

1st Lieutenant
Oh, no argument here. I just thought it was interesting that the guide references the Border Worlds as a proper noun...indicating to me that it was a formal (somewhat) organization...and not "border worlds".

But I definitely get the the UBW wasn't formally declared until post-Privateer. But thanks all for the input!
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Ah! That's most likely because the version of the bible available online is from 1995... so while Wing Commander III is the last game it includes, ti was also written during the development of Wing Commander IV. (The hope was that there'd be broad licensing by '96... a TV show, other games, comic books, all that jazz.)
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Ah! That's most likely because the version of the bible available online is from 1995... so while Wing Commander III is the last game it includes, ti was also written during the development of Wing Commander IV. (The hope was that there'd be broad licensing by '96... a TV show, other games, comic books, all that jazz.)
On a sidenote, that's a really fascinating segment of WC history, even though precious little (save for the Academy cartoon and a few more books) materialised out of it. It's just such an amazing indicator of the ambitions, hopes, and sheer enthusiasm at Origin at that time. Contrary to the popular (and entirely false, I know) idea that EA stifled Origin, here's evidence of the high state of morale that prevailed as late as 1995 or 1996. And then, with the end of WC4, things just suddenly seemed to go sour very quickly...

Having recently written a short paper on the continuity of cinematic storytelling from WC through to modern games for one of those "top 100"-style book publications (including, most obviously, Star Citizen), I find myself wishing I had time to write a book-length study of WC as a franchise. It would be so interesting. But, PhD must come first.
 

Ijuin

Admiral
This. They're referring to two different things.

A border world is exactly what it says on the tin, a world on the border of human inhabited space.

The Union of Border Worlds on the other hand is a sovereign government that some systems joined and others didn't. That's different and more specific than simply being a border world.

Yes, and I used the CSA example because (slavery/racial issues aside), it was a secessionist union that was formed because a number of members were dissatisfied with what they saw as abusive treatment of them by the central government, same as with the formation of the UBW.
 

Minuteman

1st Lieutenant
LOAF - That would have been pretty cool. I would love to have seen a few more games, TV shows etc. While I have hopes that somebody, someday, will pick up the Wing Commander line again - I feel like we've probably seen all the Wing Commander we'll see (outside of mods and stuff - who knows what Star Citizen might bring).

Pessimism aside - here's to hoping for more Wing Commander stuff in the future!
 

Jdawg

Commodore
LOAF - That would have been pretty cool. I would love to have seen a few more games, TV shows etc. While I have hopes that somebody, someday, will pick up the Wing Commander line again - I feel like we've probably seen all the Wing Commander we'll see (outside of mods and stuff - who knows what Star Citizen might bring).

Pessimism aside - here's to hoping for more Wing Commander stuff in the future!
I learned a long time ago never say never. for instance lucas and spielberg said there would never be an Indiana Jones 4 and we got one (even though I hate it). I also never thought we would get a physconauts 2 but we are getting one. My pt is never say never, especially when it comes to a series like wing commander
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
On a sidenote, that's a really fascinating segment of WC history, even though precious little (save for the Academy cartoon and a few more books) materialised out of it. It's just such an amazing indicator of the ambitions, hopes, and sheer enthusiasm at Origin at that time. Contrary to the popular (and entirely false, I know) idea that EA stifled Origin, here's evidence of the high state of morale that prevailed as late as 1995 or 1996. And then, with the end of WC4, things just suddenly seemed to go sour very quickly...

It's not hard to see what happened from Electronic Arts' perspective. Where we see Wing Commander as a smash hit that only got better and more successful with each iteration, they had fuller view: each iteration quadrupled the budget of the previous game... each one sold itself primarily on the new level of spectacle that budget increase allowed. And that's a case of the bean counters being exactly right: going from Wing Commander II to Wing Commander III to Wing Commander IV forward wasn't sustainable. The corporate goal is always a safe, evergreen franchise that you can update regularly that provides reliable revenue you can promise your shareholders... and Wing Commander in 1996 wasn't that. And that wasn't for any lack of trying on their part.

Of course there's more to the story than any of that... we know Origin replied by dedicating multiple development teams (three!) to coming up with Wing Commander games with sustainable budgets. But there was a big loss of faith, especially as Digital Anvil took a lot of the top talent from the Maverick team and announced projects that seemed to be Wing Commander's heir apparent. (They were asking exactly the question we're asking now: when they would come to blows, do people want to play Chris Roberts' Freelancer or Rod Nakamoto's Privateer 3?) And of course there's the general decline in space games and the rise of advanced FPSes*... and Ultima Online inventing an entirely new model for selling games and guaranteeing ongoing revenue... it's surprising Wing Commander Prophecy made it out at all!

* - we always say FPSes, but what was more damaging was the RTS craze. Electronic Arts opted to put a lot of the money that could have gone to Wing Commander into acquiring Westwood and essentially buying first/second place in that genre. Command and Conquer and Dune games didn't have the budgets of Wing Commander titles, and so it made more strategic sense to support those projects.
 

Minuteman

1st Lieutenant
Makes sense. Unfortunately. Damn logic ruining my dreams. And it seems I unwittingly participated in my favorite series' demise, as I'm a big Westwood C&C fan!
 
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