if you could design a wing commander game
- Thread starter $tormin
- Start date
Yeah Raptor
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Posted by Bob McDob
Shitty games"?!? "Stupid kids"?!? Do you even KNOW who Andy Hollis is!?! He's a PC Gamer Game God, like Roberts and Garriot! He gave us AH-64 Longbow, and Jane's F-15, and Longbow II! And that was only while he was working at Jane's Combat Simulations! So, watch what you say.
Anyway, I agree with what Hollis has to say, in a way...you have to take everything with a grain of salt or ten. Don't forget that listening to the public can mean unwieldy bureaucracy and focus groups and hopelessly muddled products. I distintly remember that quote from somewhere...there's another one (I don't know who said it) that says that you should ignore the press and public and make the kind of game you want, damn the torpedos. (Of course, that can result in Daikatana...).
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Hey man i don't say that developers have to do the games people want them to do.(otherwise we would have a supermario quake tamagotchi hybrid). No but this sentence
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People have absolutely no idea what will make a good game
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This sounds like
Hey i am the great game artist yeah i am so good and everyone else is a fool.
Therefore i have to show people what a good game really is
because people don't know that.
Hey man listen to what the consumers say otherwise play your crap for yourself.
As for those simulations(AH-64 Longbow, and Jane's F-15, and Longbow II) never enjoyed one of these still prefer Strike commander or red baron!!
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Posted by Bob McDob
Shitty games"?!? "Stupid kids"?!? Do you even KNOW who Andy Hollis is!?! He's a PC Gamer Game God, like Roberts and Garriot! He gave us AH-64 Longbow, and Jane's F-15, and Longbow II! And that was only while he was working at Jane's Combat Simulations! So, watch what you say.
Anyway, I agree with what Hollis has to say, in a way...you have to take everything with a grain of salt or ten. Don't forget that listening to the public can mean unwieldy bureaucracy and focus groups and hopelessly muddled products. I distintly remember that quote from somewhere...there's another one (I don't know who said it) that says that you should ignore the press and public and make the kind of game you want, damn the torpedos. (Of course, that can result in Daikatana...).
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Hey man i don't say that developers have to do the games people want them to do.(otherwise we would have a supermario quake tamagotchi hybrid). No but this sentence
-----------------------------------------------------------
People have absolutely no idea what will make a good game
-----------------------------------------------------------
This sounds like
Hey i am the great game artist yeah i am so good and everyone else is a fool.
Therefore i have to show people what a good game really is
because people don't know that.
Hey man listen to what the consumers say otherwise play your crap for yourself.
As for those simulations(AH-64 Longbow, and Jane's F-15, and Longbow II) never enjoyed one of these still prefer Strike commander or red baron!!
TheFraix
Vice Admiral
What are make WC great?
I'm trying to stress a point which made WC great.
First, it is because the creators and designers integrated the storyline and the action with believable characters in a well made universe.
Secondly, the designers pushed the game to the limitations of the computer technology.
In WC, the story evolved around us. It featured good AI and dynamic musical scores.
In WC2, we became the not only became the center of the story but get to become emotionally involved with the game.
In WC3, it became a fully interactive movie with top class actors...
and in WC4 it used the best means to make a FMV.
WCP took WC back to the roots similar to WC2, applied a new flight engine... and a new, unknown threat which we couldn't understand...
Those are the Qualities of Wing Commander.
If we want to design a Wing Commander game, let it be a sequel, prequel or spin off... at least it must brings those Qualities we found in the previous games.
I'm trying to stress a point which made WC great.
First, it is because the creators and designers integrated the storyline and the action with believable characters in a well made universe.
Secondly, the designers pushed the game to the limitations of the computer technology.
In WC, the story evolved around us. It featured good AI and dynamic musical scores.
In WC2, we became the not only became the center of the story but get to become emotionally involved with the game.
In WC3, it became a fully interactive movie with top class actors...
and in WC4 it used the best means to make a FMV.
WCP took WC back to the roots similar to WC2, applied a new flight engine... and a new, unknown threat which we couldn't understand...
Those are the Qualities of Wing Commander.
If we want to design a Wing Commander game, let it be a sequel, prequel or spin off... at least it must brings those Qualities we found in the previous games.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Game designers are extensively paid and highly trained for a *reason* -- you wouldn't call a doctor arrogant for being better at performing heart surgery than you are...
Death
gh0d (Administrator)
Re: Why do we fight?
Well, the idea of keeping your home from being slagged is a pretty good cause, too...
Umm, no, we hated them because they attacked first (and had been planning to do long before the punitive strikes by Confed under Plan Orange Five), which as we found out in Action Stations put a metric butt-tonne of humans under kilrathi guns (including Senator More's homeworld; I wonder if he was in office after the wartime martial law edicts were finally lifted). Remember McAuliffe? Or the Iason?
While it's true that humanity, as a whole, has a tendancy to be Not Nice[tm] to others, I think you're oversimplifying things to a great degree.
Well, the idea of keeping your home from being slagged is a pretty good cause, too...
Umm, no, we hated them because they attacked first (and had been planning to do long before the punitive strikes by Confed under Plan Orange Five), which as we found out in Action Stations put a metric butt-tonne of humans under kilrathi guns (including Senator More's homeworld; I wonder if he was in office after the wartime martial law edicts were finally lifted). Remember McAuliffe? Or the Iason?
While it's true that humanity, as a whole, has a tendancy to be Not Nice[tm] to others, I think you're oversimplifying things to a great degree.
Planning a computer game is an act of creativity therefore it can't be learned.(unlike heart surgery)
Creativity is something many of us have or have not and this arrogant $%§&§$& says to me i am not creative but he is therefore i say he is arrogant and an idiot. If someone would dare say that on the street to me i would laugh and drop some coins for him!
Creativity is something many of us have or have not and this arrogant $%§&§$& says to me i am not creative but he is therefore i say he is arrogant and an idiot. If someone would dare say that on the street to me i would laugh and drop some coins for him!
TheFraix
Vice Admiral
Actually, creativity isn't something that _cannont_ be trained. A person is really creative when he can create something and also use his creativity to make other people more comfortable. But how better would it be if a person can be more creative thanks to the first creative guy?
Look at Chris Roberts for example. He had this creative guy to create a Star Wars style action packed game integrated with great music and nice (and believable characters). Adding the manual in a form of a magazine made us believe we were 'really there' and 'part of the war' itself.
Now that WC is no longer produced, many fans want to have more WC. Some went exploring the older games... novels, movies. Some others decided to jog their creativity to create modules for a new different WC.
Look at Chris Roberts for example. He had this creative guy to create a Star Wars style action packed game integrated with great music and nice (and believable characters). Adding the manual in a form of a magazine made us believe we were 'really there' and 'part of the war' itself.
Now that WC is no longer produced, many fans want to have more WC. Some went exploring the older games... novels, movies. Some others decided to jog their creativity to create modules for a new different WC.
Frosty
a full fledged GF
Heh...
OK, everyone ignore TheFraix, he doesn't make sense.
As for Cadfael, it's obvious to me that you're deliberately missing the point. You say "So-and-so said *this*," and then Death says "No, what So-and-so actually said was *that*, you just misunderstood," and then you reply with "Yeah, but he said *this*."
Which is stupid because you were already told you're wrong. Face it, you're just looking for something to get irate about, and you're gonna keep repeating yourself despite the fact that several people explain to you that you are and why you are wrong.
Why is it that some people think that saying the same thing over and over again makes it true?
OK, everyone ignore TheFraix, he doesn't make sense.
As for Cadfael, it's obvious to me that you're deliberately missing the point. You say "So-and-so said *this*," and then Death says "No, what So-and-so actually said was *that*, you just misunderstood," and then you reply with "Yeah, but he said *this*."
Which is stupid because you were already told you're wrong. Face it, you're just looking for something to get irate about, and you're gonna keep repeating yourself despite the fact that several people explain to you that you are and why you are wrong.
Why is it that some people think that saying the same thing over and over again makes it true?
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I completely disagree. An completely *creative* computer game gets you nowhere... look at Freelancer. A good designer has to be able to balance gameplay with complexity, has to take into consideration what the team can do, what people will be able to put up with playing the game, what sorts of technical things are possible given the current technology... and the list goes on and on. Creativity is an important quality, yes, but it's one of many, many skills needed to be a good game designer.
The same is true of *any* art form, though -- creative people don't just go out and start out painting masterpieces... they have to learn how to paint, first. To say that anyone off the street could is the true arrogance...
The same is true of *any* art form, though -- creative people don't just go out and start out painting masterpieces... they have to learn how to paint, first. To say that anyone off the street could is the true arrogance...
That's true.
Frankly, unless you put a large amount of thought into it, you can't design a decent game. A hybrid space combat/first person shooter would need TWO different game engines. Unless you're comfortable paying $150 a game, it's just not feasible.
That's the way it is.
And Frosty, it's because much of the general public is rather, well, ignorant. 40% of the general public thinks we didn't land on the moon (we did) and about 85% of the public thinks we only use 10% of our brain (only special people do that...brain-dead people). As a democracy, we are by nature fragmented and uncertain of what we want. To a lesser extent, gamers are the same way...you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. Some people complained about Prophecy, especially the lack of multiplayer (to which I say: "What are you complaining about? They give you this great game that you enjoy, and you COMPLAIN?! They have the right to complain, not you!")
Agh, I'm getting too philosophical.
Frankly, unless you put a large amount of thought into it, you can't design a decent game. A hybrid space combat/first person shooter would need TWO different game engines. Unless you're comfortable paying $150 a game, it's just not feasible.
That's the way it is.
And Frosty, it's because much of the general public is rather, well, ignorant. 40% of the general public thinks we didn't land on the moon (we did) and about 85% of the public thinks we only use 10% of our brain (only special people do that...brain-dead people). As a democracy, we are by nature fragmented and uncertain of what we want. To a lesser extent, gamers are the same way...you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. Some people complained about Prophecy, especially the lack of multiplayer (to which I say: "What are you complaining about? They give you this great game that you enjoy, and you COMPLAIN?! They have the right to complain, not you!")
Agh, I'm getting too philosophical.
Descent 3 used two types of engines for that game. Both a room structure engine and a flight sim engine, which gave both inside and outside flying capabilities. It didnt cost 150 bucks! But if a new WC game came out with multi engines to allow flight sim and 3D shooter prospective, I wouldnt hesitate to pay that much if it did cost 150 bucks. I think a game with FPS and space sim elements would be worth it. Question would be, what would get left out in favor of more interactivity and mobility in and out of the cockpit?. Would FMV's give way to extra game engine elements? Could they cram such interactivity into a dual engine game without hampering the excitement and involvement we all come to expect in WC games? Be a difficult undertaking but it would be something to see!!
RFB
RFB
Yeah, that's another thing.
I suppose you could have TWO different games, actually...a "spaceside" and a "groundside" game, each with it's own set of CD's (or one DVD
)
Look at Omikron: It DID have multiple engines, and a semi-cool plot.
(Anyone here ever read Octavia E. Butler's novels Wild Seed and Mind of My Mind? Every time I play Omikron, I pretend I'm Doro
I suppose you could have TWO different games, actually...a "spaceside" and a "groundside" game, each with it's own set of CD's (or one DVD
)Look at Omikron: It DID have multiple engines, and a semi-cool plot.
(Anyone here ever read Octavia E. Butler's novels Wild Seed and Mind of My Mind? Every time I play Omikron, I pretend I'm Doro
That's not quite the same thing, LOAF
Saying that game players don't know what'll make a good game is... well, it's not exactly fair, for lack of a better word. Reminds me of what Herb Powell said in that episode of the Simpsons: "Instead of giving the American people what they want, you're telling them what they want!"But, whatever, I'll shut up now.
I think you missed my point...
What ONE person wants, another DOESN'T, and what that person wants, another hates, and so on, and so on...
We Can't agree on what exactly we want. So, why not wait until we are presented with something? Frankly, I'd like a Prophecy TC...into a Privateer game
What ONE person wants, another DOESN'T, and what that person wants, another hates, and so on, and so on...
We Can't agree on what exactly we want. So, why not wait until we are presented with something? Frankly, I'd like a Prophecy TC...into a Privateer game
An ancient Latin message said: If we never listened to the youth, we'd still be in stone age. If we always listened to them, we'd be there again.
I think this fits well into the gaming community. Just look at the ideas posted here. They are all great, but very different from each other and somehow unrealistic. If the WC programmers tried to implement everything, it would certainly end up in a disaster.
But still it is necessary to post wishes and ideas about how a new WC game should be, and the game developers should not ignore them arrogantly. It is important to read the ideas and then DECIDE what to implement and what NOT to implement...
I think this fits well into the gaming community. Just look at the ideas posted here. They are all great, but very different from each other and somehow unrealistic. If the WC programmers tried to implement everything, it would certainly end up in a disaster.
But still it is necessary to post wishes and ideas about how a new WC game should be, and the game developers should not ignore them arrogantly. It is important to read the ideas and then DECIDE what to implement and what NOT to implement...
They should follow the motto of Interplay games, which is "By gammers for gammers". During their first run of Descent, they listened to their players for ideas on the next Descent game. They did the same thing in making Descent 3. Hence they follow what their fans would like to see in the next game they develop. Judging by the number of servers running Descent 3 games, sounds like they are continuing that tradition, and being very successfull with it.
RFB
RFB
TheFraix
Vice Admiral
Ignore me?
Ignore me? How cruel
Actually, according to Howard Gardner (a Harvard psychologist) the human mind is actually not static based on a certain intelligence test, but is dynamic based on how it perceive itself. He also proposed the idea of a multiple intelligence, where each one given enough time can develop itself.
WHAT's THE POINT in designing another game which is simply a copy cat of a previous one? Add more ships, more weapons and more characters? What's the point? A good game, old or new, is one which can implement ideas and not only newer or better graphics. Many said that WC4 is simply a WC3 given more movies. I say it's true, but what makes it special? WC4 minus the flight engine and interfaces still make a great interactive story!
Ignore me? How cruel
Actually, according to Howard Gardner (a Harvard psychologist) the human mind is actually not static based on a certain intelligence test, but is dynamic based on how it perceive itself. He also proposed the idea of a multiple intelligence, where each one given enough time can develop itself.
WHAT's THE POINT in designing another game which is simply a copy cat of a previous one? Add more ships, more weapons and more characters? What's the point? A good game, old or new, is one which can implement ideas and not only newer or better graphics. Many said that WC4 is simply a WC3 given more movies. I say it's true, but what makes it special? WC4 minus the flight engine and interfaces still make a great interactive story!