I'd buy him a beer
- Thread starter McGruff
- Start date
I don't think even people who were against the Vietnam war (me, in principle and because they tried to draft my father on his 17th birthday - the recruiting officer was a prick) are fond of Fonda and her actions. Kerry... is mixed IMO. There's too much "KERRY BAD! AMERICANS DONT COMMIT ATROCITIES! BAAA!" regarding his testimony. Yeah, he showed his flakiness during the presidential run, but to think that we are incapable of bloody and savage acts because we are American is crass narcissism. Hate the people, but don't discount the validity of the points they put forth because of it, and PLEASE don't lump the rest of the people with similar views in as supporters of and accomplices to their actions.
criticalmass
Vice Admiral
I'm currently playing host to an old friend of the family, who is a Vietnam vet and a pastor. In his words: "If people don't learn to forgive, they won't ever forgive themselves."
Using Jane Fonda as a focal point of patriotic emotion won't make things better.
Trying to excuse what she did and digging up old wounds doesn't make things better either.
She needs to live with it, and that guy Smith does too. I'd buy both of them a beer to keep them separate.
Using Jane Fonda as a focal point of patriotic emotion won't make things better.
Trying to excuse what she did and digging up old wounds doesn't make things better either.
She needs to live with it, and that guy Smith does too. I'd buy both of them a beer to keep them separate.
It is a fine example of human rights, free speech and getting away with things because you are famous to a disgusting level. Imagine a high profile person going and having a whoop de doo with hitler, sitting in a panzer and laughing about beating jews up.
Simple rule, support the home team especially when your countrymen are being killed, often those who protest or complain, especially in modern wars, are those who would or could not go themselves, i.e. scared university students. Even if you don't support war you should never undermine your own team, think of the blood shed to give them the right to complain. Bleh.
Simple rule, support the home team especially when your countrymen are being killed, often those who protest or complain, especially in modern wars, are those who would or could not go themselves, i.e. scared university students. Even if you don't support war you should never undermine your own team, think of the blood shed to give them the right to complain. Bleh.
I couldn't disagree more.
"Supporting the home team when your countrymen are being killed" makes little sense when it's not the military or the draftees who make the decision that they are going to be put where they can be killed. The responsibility for that lies with politicians. There is noting more American or more in keeping with our traditions than roasting politicians for idiocy. When their idiocy gets people killed and they persist in their policies then the level of one's roasting needs to be raised until they pay attention and change the policies.
In my case I was a anti-war activist whose views were crystallized during long discussions with my college roomate, who had served in Viet Nam as a Special Forces military advisor in 1964. While he and others may now grieve for fallen friends when they see the Vietnam Wall, I and those like me grieve for those our efforts were too late to save. I would gladly go back to the sixties if I could do something more that would have shortened that war and removed even one more name from the wall.
"Supporting the home team when your countrymen are being killed" makes little sense when it's not the military or the draftees who make the decision that they are going to be put where they can be killed. The responsibility for that lies with politicians. There is noting more American or more in keeping with our traditions than roasting politicians for idiocy. When their idiocy gets people killed and they persist in their policies then the level of one's roasting needs to be raised until they pay attention and change the policies.
In my case I was a anti-war activist whose views were crystallized during long discussions with my college roomate, who had served in Viet Nam as a Special Forces military advisor in 1964. While he and others may now grieve for fallen friends when they see the Vietnam Wall, I and those like me grieve for those our efforts were too late to save. I would gladly go back to the sixties if I could do something more that would have shortened that war and removed even one more name from the wall.
.
Maj.Striker
Swabbie
Banned
Yeah, this is not about protesting the merits of the Vietnam war. Freedom of speech is really somewhat a right afforded to all American citizens. /the problem with Fonda is she went to North Vietnam (a country with which America was at open hostilities) and launched basically a propoganda tirade against American forces. To me, that is betraying your country and you don't deserve your citizenship. I wouldn't have let her come back.
As for the comment about famous celebrities sympathetic towards Germany in WW2...well, unfortunately there were too many of them. Lloyd George, The Former King Edward...ugh, his name escapes me but the guy who flew The Spirit of St. Louis. The big difference between these people and Fonda was that they didn't go to Germany once the war began and make propaganda films and speeches against their respective countries. Everyone has a right to disagree with the merits of a war but go and openly convort with the enemy? Completely and utterly disgusting...
As for the comment about famous celebrities sympathetic towards Germany in WW2...well, unfortunately there were too many of them. Lloyd George, The Former King Edward...ugh, his name escapes me but the guy who flew The Spirit of St. Louis. The big difference between these people and Fonda was that they didn't go to Germany once the war began and make propaganda films and speeches against their respective countries. Everyone has a right to disagree with the merits of a war but go and openly convort with the enemy? Completely and utterly disgusting...
even speaking against one's own government is acceptable once said governemnt has displayed a certain level of disinterest in what the people are saying *cough* but manning a gun that kills the *soldiers*, who are just going out to do what they are required by law and threat to their personal freedon to do... is another. Hip or not.
My, a lot does go on while one's cable system takes Sunday off.
As a historical footnote, at the time the great majority of anti-war people I knew thought Fonda had pulled a really dumb stunt that wasn't at all helpful. As an example of the general attitude, Dave Harris, founder of the Draft Resistance, would get congratulatory telegrams from North Vietnam. He'd throw them in the garbage, usually unread.
But, out of curiousity, since a great many people were doing a great many dumb stunts at the time, is there a statue of limitations? For example, a firend mentioned (during a druken evening) that during a raid into North Vietnam he proceeded to take the objective and then to rape one of the women there. Both he and Fonda now think what they did was wrong and my friend certainly is troubled by the memory. Both did something most people would agree is disgusting. Since both of them are now older, wiser and regretful, do they get to move on with their lives?
(I exclude from this the veterans for whom the war has never really ended. Someone, such as another friend who is looking for a kidney thanks to Agent Orange would love to put all that behind them but can't).
As a historical footnote, at the time the great majority of anti-war people I knew thought Fonda had pulled a really dumb stunt that wasn't at all helpful. As an example of the general attitude, Dave Harris, founder of the Draft Resistance, would get congratulatory telegrams from North Vietnam. He'd throw them in the garbage, usually unread.
But, out of curiousity, since a great many people were doing a great many dumb stunts at the time, is there a statue of limitations? For example, a firend mentioned (during a druken evening) that during a raid into North Vietnam he proceeded to take the objective and then to rape one of the women there. Both he and Fonda now think what they did was wrong and my friend certainly is troubled by the memory. Both did something most people would agree is disgusting. Since both of them are now older, wiser and regretful, do they get to move on with their lives?
(I exclude from this the veterans for whom the war has never really ended. Someone, such as another friend who is looking for a kidney thanks to Agent Orange would love to put all that behind them but can't).