How'd the TCS-Gwenyvar get Rapiers?

Concordia

Swabbie
Banned
Bandit (LOAF) said that they were one of the first ships to get them in 2654, but in WC1:SM1 they mentioned something about the Gwenyvar being captured "a few years ago". The Rapiers were brand new in 2654.

They did say that the Exeter had a full-fighter compliment, but those fighters weren't in service a few years ago.

-Concordia
 
That's always bothered me too. Glad someone brought it up :)

Now let's see the the amazing inuniverse solutions people tend to conjur up. My solution is that they wanted a tough fighter for You to fight and didn't really realise the inconsistency because they were too busy creating a very good game...
 
IIRC, the name "Gwenyvar" comes only from the rumor early in the game - the Exeter you fight claims to be the "Johann".
 
Bandit LOAF said:
IIRC, the name "Gwenyvar" comes only from the rumor early in the game - the Exeter you fight claims to be the "Johann".


To my knowledge it *was* called the Gwenhyvar. I'm guessing it destroyed the Johann and assumed it's identity. Yes, I'm making that up (it's a guess).

Regardless of that, they said a few years ago in 2654 which means a few. Whether that be 2 or 4, it doesn't matter. The Rapier's were brand new in '54.

-Concordia
 
To my knowledge it *was* called the Gwenhyvar. I'm guessing it destroyed the Johann and assumed it's identity. Yes, I'm making that up (it's a guess).

So... you're making something up for the specific purpose of having something to complain about? I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way.
 
But Blair says it was the Gwenhyvar (spelling LOAF!) I'm sure he could have seen a registry number or name onboard to confirm it and if Blair says it, it must be true! :)
 
Blair has repeated problems knowing anything about the ships he's fighting. I mean he thought the Gettysburg was just another cruiser until someone set him straight. :p
 
Yeah, but Blair made a Visual ID on the Gwenhyvar.

Also, Concordia, do we know if the Johann Actually Existed!
 
Sylvester said:
Yeah!, but the ship has a NAME on it!

He never got close enough to read the name before he killed it, at least I never sat there parking my fighter in front of their guns trying to read the writing. :D

It was supposed to be the TCS Johann, though the rumors of a Kilrathi having captured a destroyer in dock are years old - and the details are probably classified. The 'Gwenhyvar' designation that Blair used for this destroyer was taken from the Bossman conversation, and earlier rumors that were flying about while we were in the bar as Blair; we don't know if the Gwenhyvar itself was real, or if that was just the tag given to the rumor which turned out to have a basis in fact.
 
Its not a real leap of faith to assume that the the Gwenhyvar had the first prototype Rapier II squadron putting them through their paces (as the few missions we fly in Rapiers is almost definitely not enough to work out all the bugs, there had to be extensive flight testing before Blair gets his hands on one) since we actually run into them (they're there, therefore they must exist :) ).
Anyway, its probably a moot point, here are all the conversations (excluding Bossmans descriptions) we have about the Gwenhyvar (thanks to Wedge-I'm referencing your site an awful lot lately ;)).
Halcyon: I’m very curious to hear your report, Maverick. Where is the Johann? Why didn’t you bring it back?
Maverick: It wasn’t the Johann waiting for us at Nav 2, sir. It was the Gwenhyvar.
Halcyon: The Gwenhyvar! I never thought that story was for real. What happened, Blair?
Maverick: It was real, sir, and they tried to kill us. But it’s dusted now.
All right, Blair just got back from a stressful mission (at least it was stressful for me to finally finish that mission :)) against an Exeter type ship that fought against him in Kilrathi space after he's been hearing stories from Bossman about a captured Terran destroyer for the past few days. What would you think?
Shotglass: Major! Good to see you. I heard about the Gwenhyvar. I never believed that old story, either. Anyhow, you heard the latest news? . . .
What did he hear about it? This is neither a positive ID of the Gwenhyvar (I never believed it existed, but you found it, therefore it must) nor a negative ID (I never believed that story, the Exeter was the Johann so the Gwenhyvar could still be just a tall tale).
Spirit: Hello, Maverick. I have been sitting here, thinking. My fiancé… what if he has been captured, like those poor souls aboard the Gwenhyvar? Captured, and forced to betray his own people, over and over again? It is a fate too horrible to contemplate. I will tell you now, if I were to be captured… I think I would rather die. Better that than the dishonour and shame of what happened to the Gwenhyvar’s crew.
Another passage that neither confirms or denies the Exeter we ran into was the Gwenyvar, just a general comment about how awful being captured by the Kilrathi (like her fiance was) would be.
Maverick: We managed to reach Nav 1 without too much difficulty, sir. But Kilrathi-piloted Rapiers and some Dralthi were waiting for us. Those Rapiers were probably the last surviving wing from the Johann… it was very tough, sir. I just hope that communication interceptor didn’t break when I was flying that high-speed Immelmann. There was another enemy wing waiting for us at Nav 2. And I don’t think we should use these captured fighters again, sir – the enemy are using some kind of recognition code and they obviously recognised us as Terran pilots.
Okay, finally an positive ID on what the Exeter was. This is from SM2, a few weeks after SM1, when everyone had had time to wind down from Operation Thor's Hammer and analyze what had happened. Blairs or Spirits targetting information was finally analyzed and the Exeter was identified as the Johann. Meaning the Gwenhyvar could still be out there, doomed to patrol the space lanes for an eternity *cue Twilight Zone theme* :)
C-ya
 
Good job!

But yeah, I don't think they ever really intended for the ship you encountered to be the Gwenhyvar - that's why they threw in the whole Johann thing in SM1 in the first place. The term "Gwenhyvar" is just the WC equivalent of something like the flying dutchman...
 
But LOAF - the CIC itself admits this is the Gwenhyvar! Just look at the WC CIC game guide!!!

"Well, what a mission.. 21 fighters plus the Gwenhyvar to battle. "

Which is it ;)
 
gryphon said:
But LOAF - the CIC itself admits this is the Gwenhyvar! Just look at the WC CIC game guide!!!

"Well, what a mission.. 21 fighters plus the Gwenhyvar to battle. "

Which is it ;)

And for all those people arguing about Canon - look at the SM2 script. It says 'Johann'. :D
 
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