How many downloads?

I

IamSpazzy

Spaceman
First off, I've recently discovered WC Standoff and have been really impressed with the entire project and would like to thank everyone who had anything to do with it. It was one of the most enjoyable WC games I've played.

I was wondering just how many times stand off was downloaded. It's been remarked that there is very little interest in space sims which is why there aren't any being produced. I wondered if this was actually real or whether it was EA just feeding us BS after shutting down origin. I'd guess that if stand off given the relatively low exposure can clock 5-10k downloads, then they really are full of it because while it may not be a blockbuster like Halo 3, it would hardly make it a unprofitable venture.
 
I was wondering just how many times stand off was downloaded. It's been remarked that there is very little interest in space sims which is why there aren't any being produced. I wondered if this was actually real or whether it was EA just feeding us BS after shutting down origin. I'd guess that if stand off given the relatively low exposure can clock 5-10k downloads, then they really are full of it because while it may not be a blockbuster like Halo 3, it would hardly make it a unprofitable venture.
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I don't think EA has ever said anything about how much interest there is in space sims... nor, of course, would that have anything to do with shutting down Origin (which happened five years after the last Wing title was published). Rather, it's an industry-wide fact - space combat games and airplane sim games don't sell. StarLancer, Tachyon: Beyond the Fringe, FreeSpace 2 and FreeLancer all underperformed by a significant amount - selling tens of thousands of copies in an era where you need to ship a million to make your budget back.

There's a reason: joysticks. In the mid-1990s joysticks were a standard peripheral. When you bought your Gateway or your Dell it shipped with a (cheap) joystick... and 'gamers' were encouraged to shop for bigger, nicer models. A huge percent of the market had them - you could easily develop a game that (seemed to) require them. That isn't the case anymore, and games that (the public thinks) require some extra controller just don't sell (or get development money).

(Also, your math is off regarding profitability: Standoff has a team of ~20 (based on the staff page)... which has been working on the game for six years. If you sold 10,000 $60 Standoff games you'd be paying those people a $5,000-a-year salary... and that's before figuring in publishing, advertising, duplication, software licensing, building rental, startup costs, etc.)
 
Hehe, we didn't, although it usually gets much worse than 9-5 in the last month or so before each release.

But hey, $5,000 USD a year is more or less the same I make at my job. :p

More to the point, however, personally I have no idea how many downloads we've had... maybe the CIC staff keeps track?
 
Well Standoff probably doesn't have 20 full time employees (the number of people working on it at any one time seems to fluctuate wildly), but LOAF is right, you couldn't make a quality commercial game with fewer than that.

Attempts, such as project Sylpheed to bring space combat to consoles may be misguided but titles such as Starfighter, Rogue Squadron and Ace Combat (not strictly space combat, but related to the perception of a required joystick) have enjoyed success. I personally think Wing Commander could happilly survive a transition to more arcade gameplay so long as the essence remained the same.
I'm also very optimistic about the evolution of control methods of aerial/space combat on consoles in the future. I think there is hope yet! :)

The series could well be revived, and I also think now would be a wonderful time to do so. It would take passion, originallity and some real commitment, but hey, what doesn't?
 
Bandit LOAF said:
I don't think EA has ever said anything about how much interest there is in space sims... nor, of course, would that have anything to do with shutting down Origin (which happened five years after the last Wing title was published). Rather, it's an industry-wide fact - space combat games and airplane sim games don't sell. StarLancer, Tachyon: Beyond the Fringe, FreeSpace 2 and FreeLancer all underperformed by a significant amount - selling tens of thousands of copies in an era where you need to ship a million to make your budget back.

There's a reason: joysticks. In the mid-1990s joysticks were a standard peripheral. When you bought your Gateway or your Dell it shipped with a (cheap) joystick... and 'gamers' were encouraged to shop for bigger, nicer models. A huge percent of the market had them - you could easily develop a game that (seemed to) require them. That isn't the case anymore, and games that (the public thinks) require some extra controller just don't sell (or get development money).

(Also, your math is off regarding profitability: Standoff has a team of ~20 (based on the staff page)... which has been working on the game for six years. If you sold 10,000 $60 Standoff games you'd be paying those people a $5,000-a-year salary... and that's before figuring in publishing, advertising, duplication, software licensing, building rental, startup costs, etc.)
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IMO, I don't think it's all because of joysticks, as I enjoyed the aforementioned games without one. It could also be because of the limited multiplayer capabilities and a too steep learning curve. Most people these days seem to be frightened away from overly "complex" games, preferring shooters and *gulp* MMORPGs...
 
I don't know, the Star Wars MMO has a pretty steep learning curve. You're either in that game up to your neck or you're not in it at all.

There's some truth to the statement that they're including MMO style gaming in SpaceSims, though. Or vice versa - even though the Star Wars Sim community is as alive and vibrant as the last released (X-Wing Alliance) they made BFII with a large space sim portion rather then spitting out a whole new game.
 
I wonder if popularity will increase after the final release, or if Standoff will remain in it's current underground status.
 
...Underground status? Standoff already has all the exposure it needs - the WC community knows about it, and nobody else would really care (which doesn't bother us in the slightest, because it's the WC community that we're making this for).
 
Standoff really has some kinde of underground status. The Freespace mod caused quite some reports in gaming magazines when they released their Prelude. Unknown enemy made it into German TV twice. Noone ever reported on Standoff as far as I know.
 
Well then spread the word. E-mail gaming magazines, websites, etc. I'm pretty Saga got it's name around because they spammed all those places with info about their mod.

Standoff is a bit different in that it is truly a labor of love and not for professional gain. Quarto already said it best though, the people who really need to know about Standoff already do.
 
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