Halo 2 Anticipation

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Dundradal said:
It's kind of bullshit that there is going to be a halo 3 when bungie had said that halo 2 would rap up the loose ends, when instead it has only made it worse and making us wait a few more years for the answers.
It ended with a cliffhanger. Halo 2 answered a significant number of the questions left open in Halo 1, and then created new ones. This isn't contrary to anything Bungie said. What else did you expect?

Dundradal said:
I'm not all that overly impressed with halo 2, the story is alright, but nothing super great, the game play has been dumbed down a lot, MP is a lot different now, 3 shotting someone in the head is gone, and a lot of the changes really aren't that great.
Yeah, a lot of the cheap exploits people complained about are gone now. I'm really at a loss to what sort of dumbed down changes you're referring to. In every way I think they've polished the gameplay and added more depth to it.
 

Maj.Striker

Swabbie
Banned
He's probably just a pistol lover and now tragically disappointed that he's being owned by newbs that he used to obliterate with the overpowered pistol. Myself being a fan of the pistol from Halo 1 have to admit in all honesty...no pistol has that kind of range, power and accuracy so the change made was a good thing.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
ChrisReid said:
It ended with a cliffhanger. Halo 2 answered a significant number of the questions left open in Halo 1, and then created new ones. This isn't contrary to anything Bungie said. What else did you expect?
There are several interviews were bungie employees state that halo 2 was to be the end of the line. Granted, some of them are from a while back, but the way the game ended was really annoying. Halo ended with a sense of accomplishment (we thought we had stopped the flood and destroyed a super weapon), yet Halo 2's ending just pissed me off. The mysteriousness of Halo was lost with the almost to much info in your face of Halo 2, seeing the covenant side was great and all, but it took away from other parts of the story.

Also, we were on Installation 05 for most of Halo 2, with the resident AI 2401 Penitent Tangent, yet our old friend 343 Guilty Spark played a much larger and more central role in the activation and later the stopping of the firing of 05. I'm not sure why PT didn't get the screen time he deserved, but I was not surprised to encounter our blue light bulb friend again.

Yeah, a lot of the cheap exploits people complained about are gone now. I'm really at a loss to what sort of dumbed down changes you're referring to. In every way I think they've polished the gameplay and added more depth to it.
How are those "cheap exploits?" If anything it means you have a certain degree of skill. They haven't polished the gameplay, they dumbed it down for a more mass appeal, which is to be expected in the gaming world of 2004, but a lot of people I've talked to have had similar complaints and the MP levels aren't all that great, yes there are some good ones, but for those of us who system link with just 2 boxes most of the levels are just to damn big and those levels that are good for 4 v 4 games all have too many tight rooms that are suited for dual SMG noobs to just pepper the shit out of you while attempting to get the hell out of dodge.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Hehehe, yeah, the gaming audience in 2004 is a lot dumber than the audience in 2002. Back then we were all true coin-o-sewers.

(Note: sarcasm.)
 

Erkle

Rear Admiral
Don't forget that Bungie didn't know what kind of hit they had. They may have thought of a sequel but for all they knew the game would have tanked. But with the success of the first one, the second was an almost guranteed success so why not take a longer view and leave the door open for more sequels? That and it is their game to do with as they see fit. Nobody forced you to buy either game and no one will force you to buy anything else dealing with Halo.
 

ace

Pepper's Keeper - Administrator
I wish all the stupid frat people would hate Halo 2. It'd really improve my online experience.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Dundradal said:
There are several interviews were bungie employees state that halo 2 was to be the end of the line. Granted, some of them are from a while back, but the way the game ended was really annoying. Halo ended with a sense of accomplishment (we thought we had stopped the flood and destroyed a super weapon), yet Halo 2's ending just pissed me off.
How could anyone possibly thing Halo 2 would be "the end of the line?" It's the freakin flagship game. They're going to keep making Halo games forever. This is not news. Halo 2's ending is an abrupt cliff hanger, but you really do accomplish quite a lot through the various adventures you go on.

Dundradal said:
Also, we were on Installation 05 for most of Halo 2, with the resident AI 2401 Penitent Tangent, yet our old friend 343 Guilty Spark played a much larger and more central role in the activation and later the stopping of the firing of 05. I'm not sure why PT didn't get the screen time he deserved, but I was not surprised to encounter our blue light bulb friend again.
What is the point of what you're saying here? Did you feel slighted that Robot B didn't get enough screen time as Robot A?


Dundradal said:
How are those "cheap exploits?" If anything it means you have a certain degree of skill. They haven't polished the gameplay, they dumbed it down for a more mass appeal, which is to be expected in the gaming world of 2004, but a lot of people I've talked to have had similar complaints
Yeah, all your frat buddies' exploits got taken out, so they have to come up with new tactics. I've talked to hundreds and hundreds of different kinds of people who've played the game over the last week. What you're saying here is counter to the virtually unanimous responses I've gathered.

Dundradal said:
and the MP levels aren't all that great, yes there are some good ones, but for those of us who system link with just 2 boxes most of the levels are just to damn big and those levels that are good for 4 v 4 games all have too many tight rooms that are suited for dual SMG noobs to just pepper the shit out of you while attempting to get the hell out of dodge.
Not true at all. Ascension, Beaver Creek, Burial Mounds, Colossus, Foundation, Ivory Tower, Lockout, Midship and Zanzibar are great for 8 players. Blood Gultch and Headlong are occasionally good with 8 players as well.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
How could anyone possibly thing Halo 2 would be "the end of the line?" It's the freakin flagship game. They're going to keep making Halo games forever. This is not news. Halo 2's ending is an abrupt cliff hanger, but you really do accomplish quite a lot through the various adventures you go on.
Remember back in 1995 after Wing Commander III was the most succesful video game in history, and the Aces Club decided that Origin probably wouldn't make a sequel so they should write deaths for the main characters and whatnot in their PBMs?
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Bandit LOAF said:
Remember back in 1995 after Wing Commander III was the most succesful video game in history, and the Aces Club decided that Origin probably wouldn't make a sequel so they should write deaths for the main characters and whatnot in their PBMs?
Oh yeah. :(
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
ChrisReid said:
What is the point of what you're saying here? Did you feel slighted that Robot B didn't get enough screen time as Robot A?
basically, why introduce him if we only see him for a minute and he doesn't really contribute much. They make it seem like 343 GS is a superior monitor of some kind as he's the center of a lot of people's attention and he is the one to explain the whole deal about the halos and the ark to us, now don't you think 2401 PT would be best suited for this on his own installation. I just found it odd, one of those weird bungie things maybe (2+4+0+1=7 anybody else see that the first time through...the love 7 over there)



Yeah, all your frat buddies' exploits got taken out, so they have to come up with new tactics. I've talked to hundreds and hundreds of different kinds of people who've played the game over the last week. What you're saying here is counter to the virtually unanimous responses I've gathered.
I haven't had the time nor the effort to talk to hundreds and hundreds of different kinds of people, but those who I have spoken too have some of the same basic complaints and *GASP* not all of them are frat guys, some are just normal people I talk too. The game seems to be more designed for people who rush into your face with dual SMGs or some other weapon that really doesn't require much skill and pepper the shit out of you with bullets. That requires very little skill to do whereas 3 shoting someone in the head requires a steady hand and good aim. We all have experienced the dumbing down of the gameplay learning curve in our times, but halo 2 seems to have taken a very strong MP game and made it a little to easy for everybody.

Not true at all. Ascension, Beaver Creek, Burial Mounds, Colossus, Foundation, Ivory Tower, Lockout, Midship and Zanzibar are great for 8 players. Blood Gultch and Headlong are occasionally good with 8 players as well.
Ascension, BC, Colossus, Lockout and IT are good levels, however midship reminds me of wizard from Halo. Foundation is alright, I think I like it more than most because it has a very similar layout to the marathon 2 MP level Thunderdome, which was one of the most popular levels. Burial mounds kind of sux, maybe I haven't played it enough but the flow of the level does not appeal to me all that much. Zanzibar can be fun, but it's very geared towards assault or 1 flag CTF.

Blood Gultch is a little to big for really active 8 player games. Headlong haven't really played that much besides an initial check out and Waterworks seems like it would only be good in 12 or 16 player matches as it is outright huge.
 

ck9791

Rear Admiral
Dundradal said:
I haven't had the time nor the effort to talk to hundreds and hundreds of different kinds of people, but those who I have spoken too have some of the same basic complaints and *GASP* not all of them are frat guys, some are just normal people I talk too. The game seems to be more designed for people who rush into your face with dual SMGs or some other weapon that really doesn't require much skill and pepper the shit out of you with bullets. That requires very little skill to do whereas 3 shoting someone in the head requires a steady hand and good aim. We all have experienced the dumbing down of the gameplay learning curve in our times, but halo 2 seems to have taken a very strong MP game and made it a little to easy for everybody.
There is an opposite side to this: some people don't like it when there are a few people who can kill everyone because they camp in the only good sniping positions on the map and are able to pick off just about anyone while only rarely getting hit themselves.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
There is no camping required to 3 shot someone. You just need to have good aim.

Also, the HBO forums have posts with similar thoughts on Halo 2, so it's not just a bunch of frat guys that have problems with it. Although I think the layout of the HBO forums is going to drive me nuts...WAY to many posts to scroll through....
 

ck9791

Rear Admiral
Well then if you don't like it when people use dual SMGs and rush you i guess you are going to have to change your tactics. Don't let them get close hose you down with bullets. The SMGs are innacurate at mid to longer ranges, kill them when they are still outside of the ideal range for the SMGs.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
ck9791 said:
Well then if you don't like it when people use dual SMGs and rush you i guess you are going to have to change your tactics. Don't let them get close hose you down with bullets. The SMGs are innacurate at mid to longer ranges, kill them when they are still outside of the ideal range for the SMGs.
Yeah, ace had a similar issue at first. He's completely solved this problem by becoming an expert pilot, swordsman and sniper, three positions which completely wipe out SMG users.

Dundradal said:
basically, why introduce him if we only see him for a minute and he doesn't really contribute much. They make it seem like 343 GS is a superior monitor of some kind as he's the center of a lot of people's attention and he is the one to explain the whole deal about the halos and the ark to us, now don't you think 2401 PT would be best suited for this on his own installation.
I really think this is a dumb thing to even think about. If they didn't introduce a new monitor, people would be asking where it was, so they went ahead and did it. But we're familiar with the old one, so they go ahead and give that one more dialogue. Case closed, what's your problem?

Dundradal said:
I haven't had the time nor the effort to talk to hundreds and hundreds of different kinds of people, but those who I have spoken too have some of the same basic complaints and *GASP* not all of them are frat guys, some are just normal people I talk too. The game seems to be more designed for people who rush into your face with dual SMGs or some other weapon that really doesn't require much skill and pepper the shit out of you with bullets. That requires very little skill to do whereas 3 shoting someone in the head requires a steady hand and good aim. We all have experienced the dumbing down of the gameplay learning curve in our times, but halo 2 seems to have taken a very strong MP game and made it a little to easy for everybody.
As I mentioned above, there are millions of viable tactics that any experienced user should regularly employ to overcome dual SMGs. Vehicles, swords, snipers, rockets, shotguns, stealth melees and so on completely dominate over dual SMGs. Experienced players should also have more success with Magnum/SMG and Rifle/SMG combos than simple SMG/SMG combos.

Dundradal said:
Ascension, BC, Colossus, Lockout and IT are good levels, however midship reminds me of wizard from Halo. Foundation is alright, I think I like it more than most because it has a very similar layout to the marathon 2 MP level Thunderdome, which was one of the most popular levels. Burial mounds kind of sux, maybe I haven't played it enough but the flow of the level does not appeal to me all that much. Zanzibar can be fun, but it's very geared towards assault or 1 flag CTF.

Blood Gultch is a little to big for really active 8 player games. Headlong haven't really played that much besides an initial check out and Waterworks seems like it would only be good in 12 or 16 player matches as it is outright huge.
Which is what I said, so there's not a problem with the maps after all. And more maps are forthcoming.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
ChrisReid said:
I really think this is a dumb thing to even think about. If they didn't introduce a new monitor, people would be asking where it was, so they went ahead and did it. But we're familiar with the old one, so they go ahead and give that one more dialogue. Case closed, what's your problem?
So they introduce him for 30 seconds and then he's gone when his own installation is about to fire? Doesn't make much sense to me, he should have been in the control room with 343 GS at least monitoring what was happening.


As I mentioned above, there are millions of viable tactics that any experienced user should regularly employ to overcome dual SMGs. Vehicles, swords, snipers, rockets, shotguns, stealth melees and so on completely dominate over dual SMGs. Experienced players should also have more success with Magnum/SMG and Rifle/SMG combos than simple SMG/SMG combos.
Magnum/SMG is really good if you remember to watch the magnum ammo so that you don't get a bad timed reload. SMG/Needler or PR is good as well.

One major complaint I have with the MP maps is the lack of active camo on basically all of them. Even the small MP maps in Halo had it on the map, while very few possess it in Halo 2 and overshield is also not that abundant on maps. Active camo in Halo 2 is amazing also, the first time I got it I was impressed by how much of an improvement it was from the camo of halo.
 

T8H3X11

Spaceman
I don't get it. I played Halo which I couldn't stand. So I didn't expect much when I played Halo 2. And that's what I got....the same thing. It seemed like the only change was dual weapons which Timeplitters and games before it did so well. Keep in mind that i did not play through the whole of either of the two games. Too boring ;) .

To each his own though. I guess I'm spoiled by Half-Life 2. All other games are dust compared to it
 

Maj.Striker

Swabbie
Banned
Well...as for the complaint about the reduction of power to the pistol taking skills to HS people...that's malarky. Using the pistol to HS people with 3 bullets on the semi automatic was not difficult. It took only slightly less skill then the point and click of the rocket launcher. However if you really feel that there is skill involved in the pistol then use the Battlerifle. It's the modern replacement for the previous pistol...3 HS with the BF and your target will go down. The complaint about Halo 2 being made for "newbs" dual wielding SMGs is equally incoherent. If anything...the sword is the most overpowered weapon. People with no skill whatsoever can dominate with the plasma sword in Halo2. I'm not complaining about that because there's ways to deal with it. Besides...I'd take a shotgun on anyone who has dual wielded SMGs. The SMGs have an effective range of like 20 feet and anyone who has pretty much any weapon other than dual SMG should be able to rip them up.

Halo 2 has a very decent balance I feel...it follows the principles of physics "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." If someone is owning with a sword, you can either grab a shotgun and deal with them up close and dangerously or you grab a BF and get some distance on him and shred him to pieces. If they have sniper rifle and are camping a rock hard then you either grab a sniper rifle and hand them their reputation on a platter or you grab dual somethings and head up there to show them why a sniper rifle is not an up close weapon. You have to accept that there is no BFG (Big F%^&ing Gun) in HALO that owns everything and everyone (some could argue the Rocket Launcher qualifies), you simply have to learn to use whatever weapon you have...each has a purpose.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Maj.Striker said:
Well...as for the complaint about the reduction of power to the pistol taking skills to HS people...that's malarky. Using the pistol to HS people with 3 bullets on the semi automatic was not difficult. It took only slightly less skill then the point and click of the rocket launcher. However if you really feel that there is skill involved in the pistol then use the Battlerifle. It's the modern replacement for the previous pistol...3 HS with the BF and your target will go down. The complaint about Halo 2 being made for "newbs" dual wielding SMGs is equally incoherent. If anything...the sword is the most overpowered weapon. People with no skill whatsoever can dominate with the plasma sword in Halo2. I'm not complaining about that because there's ways to deal with it. Besides...I'd take a shotgun on anyone who has dual wielded SMGs. The SMGs have an effective range of like 20 feet and anyone who has pretty much any weapon other than dual SMG should be able to rip them up.
You sound like you are talking about Halo for PC more than the xbox version. It takes a fair amount of practice to be able to strafe and get a good 3 shot on someone.

The battle rifle requires 5 shots to the head to bring someone down (when we first got halo 2 my friends and I tested the damage for every gun and melee so we knew what did what damage)

Plasma sword is only really dangerous on levels with lots of tight areas, IT, lockout and midship come to mind. Levels like zanzibar and the new mombassa level (I forgot the name) has a lot of wide areas which can make a noob with the sword an easy target as most seem to run across the whole level always wielding the sword and not switch to their other gun. a well placed nade and a few well placed bullets can ruin anyone's spree.
 

Maj.Striker

Swabbie
Banned
I was referring to the xbox version since I have never played the PC version. 3 shots to the head is not as difficult as people seem to be making it out to be. I never had any difficulties with it...especially on Hang 'em High...pistol owned that map. BF does not take five rounds to the head to kill on Halo2...you try it again but this time make sure you turn the scope on. AFAIK the damage is more severe through the scope.

As for the maps...only a newb would wander out into the open spaces with just a sword...you always should use the weapon you carry to your advantage. On zanzibar you should probably only use the sword inside the base or on the walkways. BTW, I believe you are referring to the Foundations map...it blows massive chunks. I played it twice and each time my team wound up owning the map by simply patrolling the top section. I think the final score was something like 50-13. Once the team has control of the top sections...you just keep circling up top and it's over.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
T8H3X11 said:
I don't get it. I played Halo which I couldn't stand. So I didn't expect much when I played Halo 2. And that's what I got....the same thing. It seemed like the only change was dual weapons which Timeplitters and games before it did so well. Keep in mind that i did not play through the whole of either of the two games. Too boring ;) .

To each his own though. I guess I'm spoiled by Half-Life 2. All other games are dust compared to it
Funny, I could say the almost exact same thing with Half Life and Halo reversed there.
 
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