Half-Life 2

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What did you expect, anyway? At least the decision to defect or not is done on the cockpit, what is arguably more dramatic.
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... I don't *expect* anything. The topic of discussion is what kinds of elements Wing Commander IV introduced to the in-flight gameplay -- since this element appeared in an earlier game, Wing Commander IV did not introduce it. This topic of discussion has absolutely nothing to do with what I expect or how I feel about Wing Commander IV.

But what is gameplay but the illussion that things are there? If you are tricked into thinking the mission is complex, it's mission accomplished.
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... except it didn't fool anyone, and it didn't add any gameplay.

Sure, and if WC3 was excelent and it was the same of WC4, how can WC4 be sucky?
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I wouldn't say that it was. Someone who wanted to see a big improvement in gameplay (or even someone who enjoyed the 'feeling' of WC3) could use the evidence I've provided to do so. I'm not that person. (... and this is the *point* of the thread.)


Than allow me to explain. "War" games had basically two endings, one good and one bad. WCIV had two good endings, plus two bad ones. That's twice as much right in there. (OK, WC3 had 3 good endings).
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No, it didn't -- people are stupid about this and I have absolutely no idea why. The 'you lose' endings in Wing Commander IV aren't remotely speccial. Prophecy has something like seven different videos it can play, depending on where in the game you die... none of them are 'endings'. Wing Commander II has several -- you can get reassigned to Caeranven, you can have the 'carrier lost' flick, you can be captured by a Bloodfang... etc.

(Incidentally, Wing Commander III has the most amazing, complex "losing" sequence ever -- complete with FMV choices and two missions worth of hard combat that you can't recover from. Wing Commander IV playing a 'you're a farmer!' or a 'you're a traitor!' sequence depending on which disc you lose on doesn't come close to this.)

The brancing was simpler, but rich. There were a lot of ways you could play either Circe or Sparadon, they were not really linear. And some missions had some random elements, like the Patrol on Circe.
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Check your count again -- even with the variant missions, Wing Commander IV has less missions than the 'war' games.

(Wing Commander III also introduced random elements -- in the 'save Flint' mission.)

I don't think a hand moving a joystick would make a lot of difference on the franchise. As much as it looked cool on 1990, and was a featured that lots of fans liked, it probbaly lost a lot of its appeal with time. People probably truned the cockpits off anyway. Seriously, if Freespace had cockpits and moving hands would it have done any better? That's not something reviewers seem to dig. Or maybe that's the lost secret of the space combat sims.

The scrambling scene were great. WCIV do capture the excitement when the Intrepid faces the Vesivous.
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You wouldn't think that... but here we are. :)

(And yes, Freespace would have been far, far better with the slighest bit of character.)
 
Well its the ONLY machine gun, I'm atleast assuming he was counting the pulse rifle as a machine gun in order to bring it into the plural, complaining about the machine guns technically isn't possible as there is only one.
And Ace was complaining about the inaccuracy of the weapons he is apparently forced to use, I've quite happilly gone through the game never using the SMG, that would certainly seem to make the accuracy of the other weapons of atleast some relevance.
 
Here's what ace (not Ace, his name has no capital letters in it) said that sparked all this idiotic debate: "Both the machine guns are so amazingly inaccurate that you cannot hit anything beyond a five foot distance."

No plasma rifles, no crossbows, no pistols, no buckets of baby kittens that shoot out at things.
 
Yes and if you had played the game you would know that there is not a "both", there is ONE, hence my assumption he was including the plasma rifle (mistakenly admittedly), weapons are grouped into types, the SMG (sub machine gun) is grouped, on key 3, with the plasma rifle. The alternative is he meant one, in which case I'd recommend avoiding the SMG, because, it does infact, suck noodles, and is a very frustrating gun to use.
 
The alternative is he meant one, in which case I'd recommend avoiding the SMG, because, it does infact, suck noodles, and is a very frustrating gun to use.
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Yeah, I think ace said something about that.
 
you know, loaf, I think ace can answer for himself, or at least send someone who actually have played the game.

As for the rest of the argument... the less said, the better.
 
you know, loaf, I think ace can answer for himself, or at least send someone who actually have played the game.
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Actually, I spoke with ace just last night and he said he was enjoying the way I was handling the thread. He's a good guy, and since he's not a regular poster I'm sure he was more than a bit confused as to why you decided to focus your twisted admin-lust out on him.

(Of course, in regards to Half Life 2, all I've done in terms of that debate is quote his original post...)
 
I really don't ge this sudden thing about "twisted admin-lust". I'm NEVER rude to any of you people, and as far as our disagreement goes, I believe I always kept things civil. I really think I was much more berated and debased than the other way around. I keep my personal opinion about the other posters to myself.

More than once I sided with you and other CIC personell and admins on even WC issues. I don't really care WHO is defending a point as long as I agree with the argument.

I don't know if this is meant to be some joke, but I really don't get this. in this particular thread I was called a jerk twice, among other unpolite posts. So I am to understand that in this boards "jerK" is sinonym to "not agreeing with us"?

You know, I thought we were friends even if we disagreed half of the time. I figured we had some measure of respect for each other.

Oh, I'm sure your answer will probably mention something about me posing as a victim or something.
 
Skip the Freespace thread, this one suddenly just got much more interesting...LET'S GET IT ON! I just got some popcorn so feel free to come out swinging. :) Just kidding, trying to add some levity here.
 
You know, I thought we were friends even if we disagreed half of the time. I figured we had some measure of respect for each other.

Oh, I'm sure your answer will probably mention something about me posing as a victim or something.
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You really can't get out of saying something stupid by simply pointing out that in your heart of hearts you know how dumb it is.

'Measure of respect' my ass -- you seem to find joy in showing up after my posts with one liners along the lines of "But some people would disagree! But I won't argue about it now!" It just gets cuter *each* time!

I'm sorry you're offended that I've called you on this - but you shouldn't be harassing my friend in the first place. I don't mind that you like arguing with me... because as sad as it sounds, arguing with people on the internet is something I'm good at and (and even sadder: something I often enjoy doing). My groovy rendered LOAF logo is one thing, but it's the exception rather than the rule. An admin custom avatar is not the Ed-must-argue-the-most-inane-point-in-the-universe beacon.

(I mean, come on. "You don't like Half Life 2, eh? And you have *reasons*? But what if one of your reasons could possibly be construed as being worded slightly wrong, eh? WHAT THEN?")
 
Whoa, selective memory here... And the other SEVERAL times I not only agreed with you, but also sided with you on long debates?? I agree with you more often than I argue, and it has been a long time since we've been on any heated debate on opposing sides. A newcomer who reads your posts here will think that I ALWAYS automatically disagree with you on every issue... Which is a big lie, and you should know that.

I have no problem with the admins, I don't know why you say that. I was rather combative in the agwc, but I perfectly civil and cordial here. The only person I recall that I was really rude to was Corsair F-4U, and he was reaaaally far from being an admin.

I don't know if you observed, but I usually ignore the people I dislike here. The simple fact that I give a damn about your opinion and knowledge of WC (which I never questioned per se...) is a give away that I'm not antagonistic or anything.

Anyways, I can't really see my jerkness in this particular thread, I was trying to debate the issue with ace while he acted like "hey dude, did your mother make the game" and "i don't want to say what games I liked" or "I'm sorry that you care". I didn't attack or offend him, I was just making my point rather calmly...

Well, this is your little corner of the universe, you call the shots here, so, I'll just keep my mouth shut.
 
Eh, all right. Without even bothering to read the latest posts, I can see this thread just isn't going anywhere any more.
 
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