Gothri Gripe

Janet Noslen

Spaceman
Yes,

I got the impression from reading Victory Streak that the Sothak was going to be some monster fighter - I believe it was compared with a destroyer as a bit of a joke.

Gothri are what have stopped me finishing SO1 and SO2- the only WC games I haven't played. I got to that mission with the two Fralthra and Gothri swarm, and tore too much hair out. Maybe these holidays...;)
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
Hmm, I don't recall having the sensation that the Gothri/Sorthak was too small. Though I was never sure wether the Gothri had exactly the same VDU image as the Drakhri or not.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Wonder no longer!


wc2drakhri-vdu.gif

wc2gothri-vdu.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sharpshooter

Rear Admiral
So this, then, is the sad truth : the Gothri is nothing more than a Drakhri with a big nose. :D

(And by the way, Janet, don't feel bad if you have trouble finishing SO1. The last mission may very well be the hardest or second-hardest WC mission ever - it may literally take days of trying to finish it.)
 

Falcon988

Commodore
That mission with the two Fralthra kept me from beating SO1 for a while also. In fact I gave up for months and only did it finally last spring.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
It's an interesting connection, because the Sorthak and the Gothri both share an odd flaw in my mind... they appear to be really, really small in the game. The Gothri and the Sorthak always felt unusually small compared to other Wing Commander II/III fighters to me - did anyone else experience that?

I got that feeling with the Sorthak. The first time you encounter one it's a bit of a shock, but not overwhelming. It doesn't give you the sense that one of these could have destroyed 18 fighters.

It doesn't appear to be much bigger than a Tbolt or Longbow in game as well. Maybe they didn't want it to look to much like the Corvette? If they'd made it bigger I could see some confusing the two for a bit.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
I think a dozen Sorthak could have destroyed the Victory and her fleet.

The impression from Victory Streak though is that a handful of them could do it. Read the piece in Victory Streak about them.

Quick Question: I can't recall off hand if there is a difference between the KS and original version of Victory Streak concerning this. I recall the K'ha'haf getting extra treatment in the KS version.
 

Kavok

Spaceman
If I was a Kilrathi pilot, I don't think I'd have too many gripes if given a Gothri. If it had more shields and less armour than a Sabre, that's a definitie improvement over what I always considered a flaw in Sabre design.

They are impressive ships, by any standard. I'd prefer a Jalkehi as I think sluggish heavy fighters need the extra range of the lasers, if the latter could carry torpedos (of which I'm not sure....).
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
Here's an interesting Gothri picture - it's from the back of the Wing Commander II Deluxe box... I don't think anything like it appears in the game: ...

Thank you very much for the VDU images - it's only now that I saw the long nose was depicted!

And while I know the Gothri picture you posted, I don't remember it being in the game either


I got that feeling with the Sorthak. The first time you encounter one it's a bit of a shock, but not overwhelming. It doesn't give you the sense that one of these could have destroyed 18 fighters.

It doesn't appear to be much bigger than a Tbolt or Longbow in game as well. Maybe they didn't want it to look to much like the Corvette? If they'd made it bigger I could see some confusing the two for a bit.

The Strakha didn't strike me as a craft that was able to single-handedly destroy 4 Hellcats either. ;) Even with the low opinion I have of that fighter...

Making the Sorthak bigger would look silly IMO. I mean, it's reasonably fast and nimble, it would look weird were it a corvette sized fighter. Comparing it to a destroyer was a blatant exaggeration.
And not to forget that the T-Bolt and Longbow certainly are large fighters. Only the Armada ships are longer than the Longbow, IIRC.

(...)
Quick Question: I can't recall off hand if there is a difference between the KS and original version of Victory Streak concerning this. I recall the K'ha'haf getting extra treatment in the KS version.

I just skimmed through it and I didn't find any additional flavour text for the Sorthak. But it is listed in the Joan's supplement.
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
Here's an interesting Gothri picture - it's from the back of the Wing Commander II Deluxe box... I don't think [it's] anything like it appears in the game...
Reminds me of the model they used in Privateer... is that even possible? Privateer came out a few years later, although I suppose they could have reused the model.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
I just skimmed through it and I didn't find any additional flavour text for the Sorthak. But it is listed in the Joan's supplement.

I don't think they are in the VS Joan's. I'll have to check it out later, but I thought there might have been more differences than the Joan's entries.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Quick Question: I can't recall off hand if there is a difference between the KS and original version of Victory Streak concerning this. I recall the K'ha'haf getting extra treatment in the KS version.

An 'intell' warning about the k Ha Haf gets appended to the list of Kilrathi aces... but the Sorthak note is unchanged (although it gets a typewriter font to make it look like a WW2 military memo.)

Both ships get added to the Joan's supplement, which is where the K Ha Haf gets its name (which no one can ever remember... or, thanks to the font used, be sure what the proper capitalization is. It doesn't have apostrophes, though - just "K Ha Haf.") The Ekapshi also gets an entry, but the Bloodfang does not.

Thank you very much for the VDU images - it's only now that I saw the long nose was depicted!

If you haven't seen them yet, check out the index pages in /ships2 to see all the VDUs together... it's pretty cool! I want to do another page that's *all* of them from the different games in one big chart...

And while I know the Gothri picture you posted, I don't remember it being in the game either

There's another interesting bit of unused art on the back of the WC2 box... a WC1-style (young) Blair with a group of photographers in the background saying one of his lines from the intro ("I'm not guilty, I won't sign it," or thereabouts.)

And not to forget that the T-Bolt and Longbow certainly are large fighters. Only the Armada ships are longer than the Longbow, IIRC.

The Sorthak is supposed to be the same length as the Longbow (38 meters.) And I believe you are correct about the Armada ships - the Banshee holds the record (43 meters.)

Reminds me of the model they used in Privateer... is that even possible? Privateer came out a few years later, although I suppose they could have reused the model.

I believe they're the same model with different textures. The shot linked above seems to be a straight rendering of the ship with its WC2 textures... similar to the 'cinematic' establishing shots you occasionally see of the Waterloo or the Concordia. No such scene with a Gothri appears in the finished game, though...

(Privateer almost reused another WC2 model, too - there's a version of the 'prototype' Strakha in Privateer textures out there...)
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
An 'intell' warning about the k Ha Haf gets appended to the list of Kilrathi aces...

Hmm, I think I saw that in the normal VS as well.

If you haven't seen them yet, check out the index pages in /ships2 to see all the VDUs together... it's pretty cool! I want to do another page that's *all* of them from the different games in one big chart...

They are very cool indeed. But I just never looked close enough to see the nose.

There's another interesting bit of unused art on the back of the WC2 box... a WC1-style (young) Blair with a group of photographers in the background saying one of his lines from the intro ("I'm not guilty, I won't sign it," or thereabouts.)

I saw a scanned picture of it here at the CIC, though it's not on my WC 2 box.


The Sorthak is supposed to be the same length as the Longbow (38 meters.) And I believe you are correct about the Armada ships - the Banshee holds the record (43 meters.)

So it's ok for the Sorthak to appear as large as the Longbow in the game. :)

Of course, I can understand that you expected something even bigger after the Intel report.

(Privateer almost reused another WC2 model, too - there's a version of the 'prototype' Strakha in Privateer textures out there...)

That's interesting and cool. I think the WC 2 Strakha looks rather cool. But, really, I think all WC 2 Kilrathi ships look cool.

Edit:

(which no one can ever remember... or, thanks to the font used, be sure what the proper capitalization is. It doesn't have apostrophes, though - just "K Ha Haf.")

Though if you check the list on page 91 of the KS manual, it's written "K'ha'haf".
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
I believe that was the idea. If you recall, Blair was tried after the destruction of the Tiger's Claw, so he should have had his youthful appearance from WC1, not the wrinkly WC2 version we see before Tolwyn in his office shortly afterwards. But, of course, there was no point in including a different image of Blair for just one scene at the beginning of the game.
 
Top