Freespace 3?

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Smart can be as arrogant as he wants if he knew how to make a game, but unfortunately I've played some of his games and they're really not games at all. The Battlecruiser series is a mess of pointless simulations that are nothing but hours an hours of nothing and have perhaps the most complicated and comlex controls of any video game ever created.

Smart might be proud of that but considering the games are UNPLAYABLE I don't view it as an accomplishment.

Derek Smart is the guy who constantly proclaimed he was changing video games forever and making a game where you could do anything you wanted or be anything you wanted but he's never delivered anything that has satisfied anyone but his incredibly tiny base of hardcore fans that find enjoyment from his products, more power to those people, but I find his junk unbearable.

Any game review website will tell you what I've all ready said. Smart's developing track record is famously horrible.

I doubt he'll make or finish Freespace 3, they won't allow him to do everything he'll want to do and he'll quit and continue churning out abysmal Battlecruiser games.

He's not a leader or an innovator he's a self blinded, psuedo intellectual prick who'd rather spend his time flaming forums on the internet than making games that people actually WANT to play.

If anyone has played any of the Battlecruiser game's you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Ehh, I've got to give some credit to Bob - he's sticking his neck out and arguing our legitimate point... and he's doing a pretty good job of it.


Vice Admiral
psych said:
If he's our lawyer, then we better start writing out our appeal. :mad:

Luckily he has no longer WCS avatar, if you know what I mean :)

Edfilho said:
The thing that scares me is that he stated that he will hunt donw and shut the fan projects. I don't think he CAN do that, but he's a very un-nice person indeed.

Do not worry.

The Source Code is Copyright of Volition, Inc -- not Interplay, Inc

So he cannot close the project even if he did acquire the Freespace rights - all he could do is prevent us from distributing any media files that were created by the artists/designers for FS2 - any community create file can be distributed. Wing Commander Saga still contains 5% of the original Freespace data, which can be easily recreated by the hands of WC Saga team.

Bob McDob

Better Health Through Less Flavor
The more this goes on, the more I'm convinced Smart is just doing this because he hasn't had a good flamewar in a long time, and he wants the shits and giggles.

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I'm of two minds. On one hand, Derek Smart clearly enjoys the publicity assosciated with things like this... but on the other, for whatever reason he actually *is* a respected software developer with half a dozen titles to his credit. I'd certainly like to dismiss this as just a natural continuation of the worlds longest flame war... but there's the nagging possibility that he's already negociated something with Interplay and is just playing with the Freespace guys (which would certainly fit his personality).


The worst Smart can do is destroy the market for space sims even further and ruin the chances for future Wing Commander titles even more.

Maybe he's jealous about how his space sims get no respect and he's decided to kill off the market all together or maybe he thinks if he starts a project that's better recieved than his work he'll have a better chance at being more successful.

Who knows, he's insane after all. In the event that he CAN pull off an excellent title then more power to him. Smart has always seemed more interested in creating the games that he wants though, and telling the fans to screw themselves if they don't like it.

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Smart has always seemed more interested in <strike>creating the games that he wants though, and</strike> telling the fans to screw themselves <strike>if they don't like it</strike>.
Derek Smart is a PR machine - he's a legendary software developer simply because of the way he acts.


Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Yeah, I remember when BC3K first came out and it was entirely unplayable (I don't think the d/l even worked!). Guy sux, I think somewhere at my parent's house are all my old PC Gamers and CGW in boxes somewhere with the ones on BC3K, some of the stuff is funny while others must have been on some heavy drugs as they saw potential in the game.


Greetings all.

The last time I was here, it was in an attempt to cool down the last exchange between the Wing Commander and FreeSpace communities.

It saddens me that I'm back here doing the same thing.

Now, I realise what some of you believe regarding the guilt of the FS franchise for killing off the space sim genre. I'm not here to change your mind. However like many people from both communities I am tired of having to worry about members of the FS community coming here and giving my website a bad name. I'm equally tired of looking over a thread and finding a member of yours coming to HLP and giving your community a bad name.

Understand that - regardless of what you believe about FreeSpace - both communities are being damaged by this consistent exchange. To the defence of HLP (as is - at the end of the day - my job) I will say that none of our staff have flamed the Wing Commander community, we hold nothing against it or this place.

Unfortunately, it seems that some of you do not share this attitude. I refer you to Bandit LOAFs post. While it seems that many peoples feelings are mutual regarding Derek Smart, the concept that the post I quoted is not provocative, childish or downright vile is laughable.

Of course, you're welcome to post as you please here. This is your community and I am a guest here. However I say again how tired I - and the HLP staff - are of this bickering between the communities. The blame placed on FreeSpace should fall with Interplay and Volition, not HLP or its community. Despite the fact that there are always a few idiots in every large community across the 'net, HLP as a site is not responsable for them.

I therefore ask that this open hostility be drawn to an end. Our website has more important things to deal with than to worry about bad blood between two good communities. At our end, while discussion of Wing Commander will not be banned - there will be a heavy crack-down on anything like what happened recently, or talk of WC or this community in a negative nature.

All that I ask is an end to the petty bickering, you can of course refuse and constant problems will continue to flourish. However I hope you'll agree that both communities would get on a lot better if our energies were spent elsewhere.

Thankyou for your time.

- Kalfireth
Co-Founder: Hard Light Productions

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
So... you're here to make fun of how we're acting and then demand that we decide to see eye to eye for the greater good? One or the other, buddy.


I'm not making fun of you, I'm trying to show you that you can't have it both ways.

How on earth - after composing something like that - can you label the majority of the community for whom it was meant as childish?

On top of that it is you, the admins of this place, the staff, who composed it. Not some member of this place who falls on a par with an0n or some other troll.

I fail to see how you can even attempt to assume some kind of moral high ground when you piece together messages like that.

In addition I've made no demands - only requests. I've requested an end to people like an0n on our end of things and an end to posts like the one I quoted on yours. You can take the proposal and it won't be seen as us being right, or you being wrong. Merely that we both decided to move on from the past.

Or this can continue, none of us will get anywhere and a pointless conflict will go on untill the death of one or both communities in time.

Understand I've made no threats, jokes or demands of you. Only an observation of how pointless this has become, and a request that it ends.

The rest is up to you.

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
How on earth - after composing something like that - can you label the majority of the community for whom it was meant as childish?
For one, by not being the same person as KrisV. What Kris thinks of HLP and what I think of Freespace are entirely unrelated (and in fact, with the exception of the occasional troll like anon or Kazan, our views are completely opposite - I've always maintained that the Freespace community is fairly impressive).


Bandit LOAF said:
Well, he's telling the same people to go fuck themselves who I've always sincerely believed should go fuck themselves...
Are you sure?

I'm concerned. Granted the FS community has some idiots, but it seems to me - especially in light of your (entire post) number 7 on this thread - that absolutely no progress was made the last time I was here.

Regardless of your feelings that FreeSpace as a franchise is the reason for bringing the space sim genre to a halt, is there any reason for me to try here - or is it falling on deaf ears?


In the post that you are referring to, I'm talking about a dozen or so of your members. This time, just like in the past, the problem was exacerbated by the nearly complete lack of moderation on your forum.

I'd be happy to point towards individual threads and posts at HLP or various "forum invasions" where the provocative, childish or vile behaviour in question is displayed if it'd better illustrate my point.

Before you get upset or offended over something that I wrote, read the part where I differentiate between a few rotten apples and the majority of the HLP members.

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I think that anyone who takes my post seriously deserves to have done so. Read it again - it's just a funny response to all the similar 'high minded' "we must rally against someone daring to say he wanted to buy the Freespace!" statements that were being 'issued' at the same time.

I'm happy to make friends with Freespace fans - but they need to know that we will occasionally take a shot at the *game*, and that it's not an attempt to start some major flamewar. And you need to discipline your own people if you expect us to keep ourselves in some sort of respectful check... up until a week ago Kazan was trolling our tech support board with anonymous postings, and people like Kris only know HLP as the place where that anon guy went to beat his chest about how he was going to 'hack' our FTP.


Edit: To KrisV:

The fact that there is differntiation is what matters to me KrisV, I can't say that it's the first time that an0n or someone like him has been the cause of others outside the community commenting about HLP.. I realise the impressions he creates.

Unfortunately, without our forums, he treads on the "good" side of the line.

I do apologise for the thread you're talking about - I missed it amongst everything else and read it (finally) today - hence my posting here. The thread was eventually locked but I (and the staff) are in the process of refining certain posting guidelines to ensure things like that don't happen again (or if they do - we make sure it's not worth doing - I'm talking banning and such like).

I am still... irritated by the flame-fueling nature of Bandit LOAFs "open letter"... however I can't say that our members of the community were ideally behaved either.

I will say though - that I refuse to moderate my own community if they read that kind of thing (and there's no reason for it). We shouldn't have to manage our members because they're being provoked here... and indeed visa versa. To that end I'll be keeping an eye on anyone flaming Wing Commander from this point onward.

That should cover things at my end. I ask that things are similarly covered at yours.

Edit 2: Noticed Bandit just posted above, will edit my reply into this post.

Bandit - as I said to KrisV I'll be keeping a close eye on this as much as I can (and asking the staff to do the same).

This bits important.

If you run into an0n or Kazan here and they're mis-behaving, please feel free to contact me and they'll be dealt with at HLP as well. It's becoming obvious that people like them are getting us a bad name with various acts and I've no space for that now. Likewise if one of your members ends up causing trouble at HLP I'll endeavour to contact you and sort something out.

Basically, it'll become apparent sooner or later to the members that there's no longer space for being idiots... if they want to play that game they're simply not welcome.
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