Joker057 said:
One thing that everyone is overlooking in the Sukoi vs F-22 debate is that the F-22 has stealth capability enabling them to have the first look first shoot capability in the area of BVR combat. The Sukoi may be more maneuverable close in but as far as long range combat they don't have a chance against a flight of F-22s. The F-15 on the otherhand was designed to combat the Mig-25. They had no idea about the limitations of the Mig-25 and designed an aircraft very fast and very nible thus the F-15 was born. The F-15 can hold it's own against Mig-29s and Su-27s. Having Mig-29s and Su-27s didnt help the Iraqis in 1991 they either went across the border to Iran, were blown up on the ground, or went down in flames. The F-22 is a coldwar design meant to locate and shoot down anything in the air that the Soviets could muster without being detected or engaged for that matter.
Also I do remember something about the bugs being able to see through the Confeds Shroud technology.
"MiG-29 description"
Here is some info on MiG-29 and the explanation why Iraq, using it was losing. (do not forget that alot depends on the pilot as well).
The Mig-29 is considered to be the first Russian aircraft comparable in quality of design to those in the west. It first became operational in early 1985 and since then has been exported to a number of countries.
Of a size comparable to the F/A 18 Hornet, the design reflected a change in the Russian tactics in the air. The Mig bureau created an aircraft capable of independent action rather than relying on ground control and guidance. The Mig 29 has a high level of manoeuvrability. The coherent pulse Doppler radar (which can track up to 10 targets simultaneously) combined with a laser range finder and infra-red search and track (IRST) device linked to the Helmet Mounted Sight (HMS) make it an excellent dogfighter (still the best dogfight aircraft). Two engines provide for high degree of survivability in combat.
About 345 of these fighters are in service with the Russian tactical air forces and 110 with the naval forces. In Germany, a number of ex-East German Mig-29s remain now in service with the unified Luftwaffe. 19 Mig-29As are used in interception role and 4 Mig-29UB in training. Currently all the Migs are assigned to Staffel 731 of JG 73 based at Laage. One of these machines, 29+12, is a subject of this walkaround.
The East German Migs were Russian export models (the same as any other export model to any other country, including Iraq) and thus are less capable than their Russian counterparts. For example, the engines were downgraded to 90% maximum power. The radar system is less powerful, with detection range reduced to about 40km. Interestingly, even so, these Mig-29s have proven themselves more than capable on practice sorties against F-16 Falcons, defeating them with ease.
Despite of this, it is doubtful that the Migs will remain in Luftwaffe for long. With uncertain supply of spare parts and the extra cost of supporting only one staffel of Russian aircraft, the writing is already on the wall.
Considering Iraq aircraft, I must say that most;y it was MiG-25. If there were MiG-29, than just about 3-4 ships not more.
"Su-27 description"
The Su-27 is a big long-range air superiority fighter, comparable to the U.S. F-15 but superior in many respects. Pulse-Doppler radar (1.076m diameter) provides guaranteed detection of targets (’light fighter’ class) at 80-100km in the front hemisphere and 30-40km in the rear. Radar electronics allows simultaneous tracking of 10 targets and rocket firing against two of those, no matter in ’clear air’ or on ground/sea background.
Opto-electronic tracking system increases reliability of targeting complex and detects high-speed targets at 40km in front hemisphere and at 90-100km in the rear one. Combination of those two allows to track and attack targets ranging from high-speed high-altitude reconnaissaters to low-level compact targets like cruise missiles and drones.
10 hardpoints allow to carry wide variety of AA missiles.
At the beginning of 1996 Russian VVS possessed 450 Su-27, above 300 of those assigned to PVO.
but we may go further and look into SU-35 which already outstands F-22, cause it is advanced derivative of the Su-27 "Flanker". The first Su-27M prototype flew in 1985 and was displayed at the 1992 Farnborough Air Show.
Changes from the Su-27 include a new radar, foreplanes, more powerful engines, an enlarged and improved infrared search and track unit in front of the cockpit, an infrared missile-warning scanner on the fuselage spine and a large "spine" between the engines containing a rearward-facing air-to-air radar, allowing the use of rear-firing missiles mounted on rotating pylons that can fire missiles in either direction.
It's the first aircraft able to make Mach 1.0+ in vertical flight.
And i'm talking right now only about SU-27/35. And not about SU-37 "Terminator" and especialy not about Su-37(47) "Berkut" (GoldenEagle).
I'm not trying to make russian airplanes to look superiour (not at all), i'm just provide the basic background, showing that russian aircrafts do not lose any position to the western analogs. Maybe only at the radar range + that stealth thing, but the most funniest thing is that russian radars always tracked Stealth american ships, always... eheheh and i'm not imagine, but talking about it as a fact. Our airplanes can't track at the long ranges F-117, but onground radar station can. But our aircrafts can track F-22, that's I know for sure.
So ya, you may say that i'm wrong or that i'm a loser, but hey I have facts and the history to prove the competability of the russian aircrafts. And also you have to remember that any aircraft that was outside the USSR, was a downgraded model. But the american ships were the normal models and still russian analogs proved to be the real pain in the ass... just image what could happen if it was the normal models and not downgrated.
But this dispute about the aircraft is useless, cause I saw that russian aircrafts aren't considered as one of the best (or advancier at some parts), mostly thanks to the american multimedia, that described us as stupid, evil people, who live with bears and only drink vodka.
But if someone here got upset that russian aircrafts turned to be rel good, here is a very good news for you, the USA's economy is one of the best and the ubiest comparing to the russian's one
We have brains (scientiests), you have money, hmm shall we work together?
Cyb
. Other than this, I was under the impression that wcp had completely dropped cloakable ships.
But the Excalibur easily beats them in my books.
