Drop Bomber Ballots Here (March 6, 2010)

Highball

Spaceman
Man, I couldn't stand flying the Broadsword. Every time I'd get in one, I'd have to take out some kind of fighter cover composed mainly of ships I should have no problem taking out (Sartha, Drakhri). These silly escort fighters would seem like Kilrathi super ships, simply due to the fact that I didn't have the speed to keep up, and could not compensate by scooting around with afterburner pushes to get myself back into firing range. Jalkehis and Griks weren't too much of a problem in it, though, because those were slow, and the 'sword could soak up a lot of damage.

Of course, the 3 Mass Drivers had a good punch, if your target wasn't constantly "out of range." I would keep thinking: "Man, I wish I could have used a friggin' SABRE for this mission instead. These damn Drakhris wouldn't constantly be out of range if I could do something besides plod along like a warthog through molasses." Made torpedo runs hellish, too, especially if the object I am trying to torpedo is going to take more than one torpedo to kill.

I'd get a lock and fly toward the cap ship, my shields soaking up whatever flak gun damage came at me without going down lower than 45 or so. I'd launch the torp and pull out, and suddenly, as I was flying away, my shields would drop faster than Tiger Woods' popularity. Before I knew it, I was getting chewed to bits and could not make a speedy getaway due to the lack of afterburners. Lost lots of missions due to my ship being blown to pieces as I was trying to get away from a stinking stationary cap ship. Ugh!

Broadswords definitely LOOK cool, but God, trying to fly one? Sabre, please.
 

Death

gh0d (Administrator)
Dude, one word: turrets

After coming out of autopilot, start flying away from the escorts. The AI is stupid enough that they'll line up behind you nicely so you can mow them down with your rear turret neutron guns, and thin out their numbers some before they get close enough to engage.
 

Mace

Vice Admiral
Man, I couldn't stand flying the Broadsword. Every time I'd get in one, I'd have to take out some kind of fighter cover composed mainly of ships I should have no problem taking out (Sartha, Drakhri). These silly escort fighters would seem like Kilrathi super ships, simply due to the fact that I didn't have the speed to keep up, and could not compensate by scooting around with afterburner pushes to get myself back into firing range. Jalkehis and Griks weren't too much of a problem in it, though, because those were slow, and the 'sword could soak up a lot of damage.

Of course, the 3 Mass Drivers had a good punch, if your target wasn't constantly "out of range." I would keep thinking: "Man, I wish I could have used a friggin' SABRE for this mission instead. These damn Drakhris wouldn't constantly be out of range if I could do something besides plod along like a warthog through molasses." Made torpedo runs hellish, too, especially if the object I am trying to torpedo is going to take more than one torpedo to kill.

I'd get a lock and fly toward the cap ship, my shields soaking up whatever flak gun damage came at me without going down lower than 45 or so. I'd launch the torp and pull out, and suddenly, as I was flying away, my shields would drop faster than Tiger Woods' popularity. Before I knew it, I was getting chewed to bits and could not make a speedy getaway due to the lack of afterburners. Lost lots of missions due to my ship being blown to pieces as I was trying to get away from a stinking stationary cap ship. Ugh!

Broadswords definitely LOOK cool, but God, trying to fly one? Sabre, please.

Nobody ever said saving humanity from a bunch of aliens was supposed to be a milk run ;) At least with the Broadsword you have enough torpedoes so you can have the enemy shoot one down with it's flack. But the idea of flying in a bomber without escorts is ridiculous in the first place.
 

Farbourne

Rear Admiral
Of course, the 3 Mass Drivers had a good punch, if your target wasn't constantly "out of range." I would keep thinking: "Man, I wish I could have used a friggin' SABRE for this mission instead. These damn Drakhris wouldn't constantly be out of range if I could do something besides plod along like a warthog through molasses." Made torpedo runs hellish, too, especially if the object I am trying to torpedo is going to take more than one torpedo to kill.

I was always convinced that the Broadsword (and Crossbow, too, for that matter), had exactly the wrong armament, and should have swapped its guns with the Epee.

The 'Sword as an incredibly awesome gunnery platform (much like the Y-Wing in the LucasArts games)--it's mass and low maneuverability actually work to your advantage when you want to carefully line up precise shots, and it's ungodly armor and shields mean that you can go nose to nose with any craft you want, without having to juke or slide, and come out undamaged as long as you don't rush too many at once. So they give you this awesome gunnery platform--and arm it with some of the shortest range guns in the game, so you get one, maybe two shots max off before the light fighter(s) you're trying to shred are out of range.

Meanwhile, the Epee, which has insane maneuverability and acceleration, but effectively no shields or armor, was good at dodging in and out of a dogfight, getting close in and firing quickly and then getting out, and yet it had, high damage, slow-firing, long range particle cannons. In an Epee, I generally was really close to my targets and didn't care for range, but wanted to fire off shots as quickly as I could. In a 'Sword, I wanted to line up shots carefully at range, since I didn't have the speed to dogfight.
 

Mace

Vice Admiral
In an Epee, you need to get the draw on a person/cat. It's no trading licks because you'll lose to a craft with a superior refire rate.
 

Highball

Spaceman
Dude, one word: turrets

After coming out of autopilot, start flying away from the escorts. The AI is stupid enough that they'll line up behind you nicely so you can mow them down with your rear turret neutron guns, and thin out their numbers some before they get close enough to engage.

I have to admit, this is an advantage of the Broadsword. I've pulled this trick a lot, but it doesn't make up for getting chewed to bits as I am flying away from a torpedo run.
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
I was always convinced that the Broadsword (and Crossbow, too, for that matter), had exactly the wrong armament, and should have swapped its guns with the Epee.
I imagine game-play balance may have had something to do with that decision. Three particle cannons would give the Broadsword the same armament as the Morningstar, and while it certainly doesn't have the Morningstar's manoeuvrability, it could possibly make the ship too easy to play against fighters.

As has been mentioned by others, it seems to me that the Broadsword is meant to be more of a missile and torpedo platform, not for gunning down fighters.
 

-danr-

Vice Admiral
Three particle cannons would give the Broadsword the same armament as the Morningstar

Indeed, and the Epee with mass drivers would share its guns with the inferior Ferret :) I love the Epee just the way she is, a light attack fighter with Torpedo capabilities - I particularly like the Standoff version, I'll be including Epees with torp in the missions I'm working on.
 

Farbourne

Rear Admiral
Indeed, and the Epee with mass drivers would share its guns with the inferior Ferret :) I love the Epee just the way she is, a light attack fighter with Torpedo capabilities - I particularly like the Standoff version, I'll be including Epees with torp in the missions I'm working on.

Indeed...and I loved flying the Ferret, and hated flying the Epee (In WC2, not Standoff).

I think it's a style preference. As designed, the Ferret requires you to get close in and dance with your opponents...darting in and out and dogfighting with them, relying on your speed, maneuverability, and the refire rate of your guns. The Epee is more suited towards using it's slow-firing, long range, powerful guns to snipe, and using it's speed and maneuverability to stay out of range of the opponent, instead of getting in close and dancing.

I tend to prefer the former flying style by far. Sniping and using your evasive ability to play keep away was never fun...and frequently took too long when you absolutely needed to down incoming Grikhath.
 

Farbourne

Rear Admiral
Incidentally, if we want to see what WC Game Designers, as a group, prefer (or at least prefer making others use), here's the breakdown by my count (based on the CIC game guides and not counting Standoff):

Avenger: 23 missions (allowed to select)
Banshee: 18 missions (allowed to select)
Broadsword: 17 missions
Crossbow: 6 missions
Devastator: 7 missions (possible, plus whatever is in Secret Ops...not finished counting yet)
Gladius: 0 missions
Lance: 9 missions (allowed to select)
Longbow: 22 missions (allowed to select)
Morningstar: 9 missions
Sabre: 25 missions
Shrike: 5 missions (possible, plus whatever is in Secret Ops)
Thunderbolt: 23 missions (allowed to select)
Vindicator: 22 missions (allowed to select).

So the clear winner of the bomber we're forced to fly the most is the Sabre, which, if you fly every winning and losing path mission in WC2, SO1, and SO2, you're forced to fly 25 times. Some of the WC3 and WC4 bombers come close, but only if you pick a bomber every time (and who does that?)
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Gladius: 0 missions

Sabre: 25 missions

So the clear winner of the bomber we're forced to fly the most is the Sabre, which, if you fly every winning and losing path mission in WC2, SO1, and SO2, you're forced to fly 25 times. Some of the WC3 and WC4 bombers come close, but only if you pick a bomber every time (and who does that?)

I intended the Sabre to be the loadout that carries that huge rack of torpedoes, which we don't see very often.

I also don't have my Armada guide handy at the moment, but the Gladius does show up within the 15-mission Armada Confed Gauntlet campaign.
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
I think it's a style preference. As designed, the Ferret requires you to get close in and dance with your opponents...darting in and out and dogfighting with them, relying on your speed, maneuverability, and the refire rate of your guns. The Epee is more suited towards using it's slow-firing, long range, powerful guns to snipe, and using it's speed and maneuverability to stay out of range of the opponent, instead of getting in close and dancing.

I tend to prefer the former flying style by far. Sniping and using your evasive ability to play keep away was never fun...and frequently took too long when you absolutely needed to down incoming Grikhath.

I had a heck of a time staying alive in an epee back in the day. The Ferret's guns recharge way faster. Most light fighters can be taken out in seconds with well aimed shots (and the guns are close to the centerline so you don't actually end up missing half the shots like in the Rapier). The shields recharg fast and it's speed means you can get in and out of harm's way in a hurry... you just have to make sure you don't run into anything in the meantime. The lack of missiles on the ferret never bothered me much since you don't usually have to fly it missions where you're out-classed all around.
 

Deacan

Commodore
Because it wasn't really necessary or effective? Devastators need agile fighter protection to counter its low speed and manoeuvrability.

Well... You understand me wrong. Of course we need fighters to protect the heavy Devs, but instead of cut the fighters missilelayout from pure dogfight to wildweasel (giving them more antiturrets- and less antifighter missiles) I would prefer a pair of shrikes come in: with 20 HARMs they could just take out the turrets and leave the battlefield.
I would like to have as much HS, IR, FF or what ever type of antifighter missiles on my fighters as possible...

Just my 2 cents.
 
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