Dreadnougts

Shane

Spaceman
I've been re-reading False Colors and came across somthing that had bugged me in the past, but I had forgotten about. The size of the Kilrathi Dreadnought. Is it me or does this thing seem insanely large. I always wondered if they put an extra zero at the end. It would make more sense. The sucker is 22km long? The Midway is 1830 meters long, and I never did find out what the Vesuvius was, but I'm guessing somewhere in that neighborhood. The reason I think it has to be a typo is the mass on the thing. The Midway comes in at 200,000 tonnes, while the Dreadnought, which is just over 12 times as long has a mass of 290,000 tones. The numbers just don't work. The Fralthi II, also from WC3 was a mere 550 meters, and came in at 23,000 tonnes. The Dreadnought is 40 times as long as the Fralthi II. However, 40 times 23,000 works out to 920,000 tonnes. I'm wondering if they transposed the 2 and the 9.

I'm sure there is not a direct relationship in size and mass, but this difference seems extreme. I think realistically it would have made more sense for the Dreadnaught to be 2200 meters long or in that neighborhood. It would have been bigger than anything out there, but it would be a believable increase in size. Any thoughts?
 
You can actually see the damn thing in FMV cutscens in WC3. It really freakin is more than ten times (as opposed to two times) larger than the Bhantkara WC3 Carrier. On the subject of mass, the thing is mostly hollow. If you look at it, it's practically a skeleton. That's where the lack of mass factors in.
 
If you think about it from a realistic perspective, you are right Shane. Just to contain the Fusion Reactors, the armor, the weaponry, supplies, systems, would well exceed the 290,000 mass limit on it.

If you think they were missing a 0 somewhere, it probably belongs to its mass, and nots its length.

By the way, the Vesuvius is quite big. Unforunately I can't find a darn game manual (especially when you need it), so I couldn't tell you now as to its length. But I do remember it being somewhere in the ballpark.

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I looked in the CIC, but they didn't have a Vesuvis length. However that link did, thanks Hero. I'll have to watch the ned of WC3 again. Does anyone know if there is a code to watch just the video? I have both versions of WCIII (the original and KS) I recall the end of the game showed the thing, but I seeme to remeber trying the losing path once and flying against the thing and it didn't seem that large. That is often a problem in games, though.

I recall reading also that with the Kilrathi Supercarriers, they had to overcome the problem of jump size limits. I don't recall it all that well, but size was a limitations at one point. The leap from the ships the size of the Midway to the Dreanaught is a factor of 10. That's quite a hurdle. Anyone recall what the size of the Behmoth was? I remember the Victory seemed tiny next to it, so maybe the size is right. Still it seems quite a leap in technology.

Oh and to jump topics, Chris, that cover of the German WC3 does look like it has a pair of Arrows and a Gladius.

[This message has been edited by Shane (edited July 13, 2000).]
 
Yeah, WC3 has the best nedding of all.




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Hats off to the new-age hairstyle made of bones,
Hats off to the use of hats as megaphones...

-Frosty
 
The jumpgate size problem might be based on the width of the jumpgate, not the length of the ship. An entire light battlegroup routinely jumps side-by-side in WC3, and estimating the sizes of the Behemoth and Dreadnought from the cutscenes, they arent too much wider. Even the Tiamat battlecruiser (that CANT be a dreadnought) folded it's arms into a narrow profile to fit through the gate. The jumpgates the Midway creates dwarf the older ones, but most of the apparent size difference is probably the backwash, not the gate itself.

As for size problems for the older dreadnoghts... it probably depends on the shape. The trend seems to be Even with the 1500 meter size (BTW, where did you get those stats, LOAF?) a decent strike team could destroy one *especially flying Morningstars... it would be suicide but a volley of those things... OUCH*, and you definitely wouldnt need a team of marines with tactical nukes to take them out. If they were the shape that was posted on the Tome of Sivar page a while back (no longer working) then there might be problems with the wings... however what is the story with that anyway?

*BTW if there is some info in the books that deals with this, sorry. I havent read ANY of them*

Also, LOAF, wouldnt the Hakagas have AMGs also?

[This message has been edited by Chernikov (edited July 13, 2000).]
 
Frosty said:
Yeah, WC3 has the best nedding of all.
Okay here's my dumb question for today.
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What is nedding? Never heard the term before. Tried looking it up on the web, but all I found were a bunch of mis-spellings of needing. I'm assuming it has to do with the size of capships in relation to you, but that's just a guess.
 
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No Regret's dumb answer of the day: end = ned
a simple typo.
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The time is near.
There are still quite a few days remaining.

I don't care for fame, power or money...
I just want to FIGHT!
-Sanosuke Sagara
 
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Yeah, I wish the board had a spell-checker. I've gotten spoiled by them elsewhere and it shows when I don't have one. You'll notice most of my posts have at least one edit.

Frosty: Yeah, the foot through the skull in the shadows of a wrecked Capitol Building was pretty cool. Especially since I'm in DC. I liked it better than the WCIV version. Babs from the TCN reading "Christopher Blair, one time hero of the confederation known for his exploits in the Kilrathi war..." or something to that effect.
 
lol.
Keep on doing that No Regret and you'll have Shane do the Lollipop dance before the day is over...

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Lollipop Dance? Oops, I may have exceeded my one dumb question per day limit
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That's okay. Just replying from that makes it all the worth while!
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I'd probably laugh if I only knew what the lollipop dance was, but I'll humor you anyway: *tickles self in armpit* hahahihi!
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------------------
The time is near.
There are still quite a few days remaining.

I don't care for fame, power or money...
I just want to FIGHT!
-Sanosuke Sagara
 
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Oh, wait, is the lollipop dance something like the hampsterdance, but wwith dancing lollipops?

------------------
The time is near.
There are still quite a few days remaining.

I don't care for fame, power or money...
I just want to FIGHT!
-Sanosuke Sagara
 
But Frosty I downloaded it but I couldn't play it but what all came was that some very ultra fast cut scenes in some vga graphics passed by in a second flash..well I ' am not sure whether that was playable demo or just a cut scene to see
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I am not Frosty. Anyway, if that demo isn't playable - then there is no playable demo for WC1. At any rate, that is the only WC1 demo I know of.
 
Hey, it's LOAF!

There is no playable Wing Commander 1 demo -- just the non-playable trailer available for download in the files section. Be sure to slow it down, though, as it'll run incredibly quickly on today's computers. The WC2 demo trailer is even cooler, though...

We are told in Fleet Action that before the Hakaga's there was no way to move such large ships through jump gates -- the Hakaga class heavy carriers are the first ships to be able to avoid the previous size limitation on jump points. Naturally, after Fleet Action (ie, WC3) this limitation no longer exists.

The length of the Hakaga is 1,580 meters, which you can confirm on page 157 of Fleet Action. My bet would be that they do *not* carry anti-matter guns, as they are strictly fleet carriers and not designed for offensive missions. The only carrier we see with AMG's is the *dreadnought* class Concordia, a ship designed to go head to head with other capital ships. Nobody would ever expect a fleet carrier like the Hakaga to go against another capital ship at close range.


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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

LOAF's Merry Guild

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG
 
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