"Dirty rotten boat i wouldn't even spit at!"

frostytheplebe

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
Now that I have my copy of TKS, I've finally shaken off the damn "SNES Vet" title and experienced the original WC as I should have from the get go. Seeing the better graphics and added screen space I have to say WHAT A MESS!!!

Clothes all over the floor in the barracks, something leaking, panels missing, rust everywhere, pipes and wires hanging from the cieling in "Pilot Country" and a flight deck with stuff scattered everywhere... its a wonder our rookie pilots didn't run away screaming.

I mean I understand things tend to be lax on a ship that (to our knowledge) had no presence of a flag officer on board, but to let it get that bad? The Victory was an old clunker that had seen more days in the war then perhaps any other carrier, and had even earned the nickname "Oil Can Sally," but even she didn't look anywhere near as bad.

The only other ship that came anywhere near as close to being so unkept was the Intrepid, which I don't believe is a fair comparison as she was fighting for a much poorer group of people, and was pulled of a scrap heap, and even she cleaned up well when they had the chance to effect some repairs.

I mean seriously, how could a commander let his ship get that bad? If Tolwyn saw that, he'dve bumped the Captain back down to Ensign.
 
frostytheplebe said:
Now that I have my copy of TKS, I've finally shaken off the damn "SNES Vet" title and experienced the original WC as I should have from the get go. Seeing the better graphics and added screen space I have to say WHAT A MESS!!!

Clothes all over the floor in the barracks, something leaking, panels missing, rust everywhere, pipes and wires hanging from the cieling in "Pilot Country" and a flight deck with stuff scattered everywhere... its a wonder our rookie pilots didn't run away screaming.

I mean I understand things tend to be lax on a ship that (to our knowledge) had no presence of a flag officer on board, but to let it get that bad? The Victory was an old clunker that had seen more days in the war then perhaps any other carrier, and had even earned the nickname "Oil Can Sally," but even she didn't look anywhere near as bad.

The only other ship that came anywhere near as close to being so unkept was the Intrepid, which I don't believe is a fair comparison as she was fighting for a much poorer group of people, and was pulled of a scrap heap, and even she cleaned up well when they had the chance to effect some repairs.

I mean seriously, how could a commander let his ship get that bad? If Tolwyn saw that, he'dve bumped the Captain back down to Ensign.
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Heheh. Looks like home, to me. That's the social dynamic on board the 'Claw. When you let the inmates run the asylum...
 
I think the point was to make the Claw feel like a blooded veteran that had bore the burden of the war so far. It echoes well with the campaigns - the Claw and its wings lead the assault in Vega, chase the Sivar dreadnaught so deep into Kilrathi space that they may as well have gone the rest of the way to Kilrah, and personally did everything it could to soil Thrakhath's cornflakes at Firekka. Not only that, but it's listed as a strike carrier, implying that it they didn't shy away from a broadside with a cruiser if that's what it came to. To me the wear'n'tear expresses that better than an introduction calling it Tin Can Sally or stating "it's no Concordia."
 
I was never really clear exactly what 'Tin Can Sally' meant. Is it a play on 'TCS'? Is it mockingly comparing Victory to a destroyer? Where did 'Sally' come from?
 
Bandit LOAF said:
I was never really clear exactly what 'Tin Can Sally' meant. Is it a play on 'TCS'? Is it mockingly comparing Victory to a destroyer? Where did 'Sally' come from?
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If you don't know, maybe nobody does. My personal, completely unfounded and unsubstantiated guess, is that TCS Victory had a crazy captain once who used the Victory very much like a destroyer in ship-to-ship combat. She's not designed for ship-to-ship combat, but she does have a *capship missile launcher*. Sheffield and Coventry used capship missiles in combat - during the strike escort mission in WC3 that puts the Victory battle group up against Kilrathi heavies, Sheffield and Coventry use capship missiles to down their targets. Ajax got down and dirty with an AMG slugfest. It's consistent with the WW2 theme: WW2-era destroyers used torpedoes as their heavy weapons, while cruisers and battleships relied on big guns, right?

If Victory actually used its capship missile launcher in direct combat with Kilrathi heavies, she may have been unofficially declared an "honorary destroyer" by the other capship commanders in the fleet.
 
I think the tin can thing is an old navy expression, but my theory is really only based on things like this:

The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors: The Extraordinary World War II Story of the U.S. Navy's Finest Hour (Paperback)

Tales From a Tin Can: The USS Dale from Pearl Harbor to Tokyo Bay

I suppose it is just something sailors used to call their ships during that time. It would fit right in with Forstechen's writing style, which is take everything from WWII and apply it to Wing Commander. I don't have a clue why they call it Sally, although I would surmise that there is some historical precedent.
 
I think the tin can thing is an old navy expression, but my theory is really only based on things like this:
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Tin Can is (US) Navy slang for destroyer.

It would fit right in with Forstechen's writing style, which is take everything from WWII and apply it to Wing Commander.
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Forstchen didn't write Wing Commander III, the script was by Terry Borst and Frank De Palma (in fact, I don't think the 'Tin Can Sally' line was even used in the novelization).
 
To borrow from the old army saying, no combat-ready ship is ready for inspection, and no inspection-ready ship is ready for combat. :)

As for Tolwyn on the claw, the barracks aren't usually a place a flag officer goes on a regular basis. (Though, on the other hand, the flag officer's staff...)
 
Its like your room when you don't have enough time to clean it up, and when you do, you don't feel like cleaning it up.

Except that you are sharing the room with about twenty other people who have the same problem
 
Death said:
To borrow from the old army saying, no combat-ready ship is ready for inspection, and no inspection-ready ship is ready for combat. :)

As for Tolwyn on the claw, the barracks aren't usually a place a flag officer goes on a regular basis. (Though, on the other hand, the flag officer's staff...)
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What about the Concordia? She looked pretty spit and polish, you didn't see any of the crap ya see on the claw.
 
frostytheplebe said:
What about the Concordia? She looked pretty spit and polish, you didn't see any of the crap ya see on the claw.
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Pilots also got their own rooms on the Concordia. (Ok maybe a roommate also)

Have you seen the movie (and read the book) the Cain Mutiny? The Cain looked like crap, but the crew could out preform the others in it's ship class.
 
Toast said:
The Concordia is Tolwyn's ship. He spends a lot of time there. If any ship's going to be clean, it's that one.
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Doubtful. Bear describes it in ER as looking like an old boxer that had picked up a few more scars since the last time he'd seen her.
 
Dundradal said:
Doubtful. Bear describes it in ER as looking like an old boxer that had picked up a few more scars since the last time he'd seen her.
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A boxer with a few scars can still be clean and well kept. The TC was more like a shaggy dog that hadn't seen a brush in years.
 
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