Confed + Borderworld vs Black Lance

Edfilho

Cry some more!
the even numbered WC games (2 and 4) have the worst manuals. I'd rather have a simple but informative manual than just a novel excerpt, like they did in 4.
The Claw Marks, the Victory Streak and Waypoint are a lot more useful.
 

powell99

Aviation Junkie
Victory Streak and Privateer's Gemini update were the best. I felt like I was on the Victory. (How's that for punctuation?)
 

Tolwyn

Vice Admiral
Raiden said:
Point to ponder: The ending for WC4 where Hawk's morale is highest, Blair becomes an Admiral and sits in an office looking very ticked off, handing out orders. That's when Hawk delivered a report regarding a rebellion. Blair's response was to send in a carrier and to 'have the black lance run blanket recon'. This obviously does not coincide with the story about the conflict with the black lance. Which one is correct? Did I miss something?

isn't he simply refering to F-107S Black Lance, codename Dragon?
 

Viper61

Spaceman
Tolwyn said:
isn't he simply refering to F-107S Black Lance, codename Dragon?
If that quote is correct, 'the Black Lance' would either refer to the organization or a sole Dragon fighter that survived (and I'm pretty sure more survived, can't recall the sources off the top of my head). If the quote is correct, he seems to be referring to the organization.

C-ya
 
in one of the first posts I participated in, that same question arose. in the Price of Freedom novelization, Pliers tells Blair the ship is a "(alphanumeric code) Black lance, codename Dragon"
I posted the page number with that as support. if you're willing to dig up that old topic and take a look, more power to all. :)
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I don't believe he gives an alphanumeric designation. F-107 is a reasonable speculation.

'2673' is the year WC4 takes place. (I'm sure I have a nicer picture of that poster somewhere...).
 

Tolwyn

Vice Admiral
107 is also a number that is considered to be unlucky... which is the reason we have picked it.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I'd wager that the reason you picked the number is because it's the only post-Excalibur 'century series' number that isn't taken. :)

F-103 Excalibur
F-104 Bearcat
F-105 Tigershark
F-106 Piranha
F-107 ???
F-108 Panther
F-109 Vampire
F-110 Wasp
 

Tolwyn

Vice Admiral
that was another reason for our choice, but as already stated, it is merely a speculation...

Actually, we met the decision that long ago, that I really do not remeber how we came up with the number ;)
 

powell99

Aviation Junkie
Notice how like the real century sieries of Aircraft there is no F-107. Well there was one but the F-4 Phantom was way better so the used that instead of the "Ultra Sabre"
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
After thinking about the original post a little bit I came up with this notion of what might of happened....

After Tolwyn's fall, the Black Lance is basically a rogue organization that had confed funding (although it could still be flowing, although highly doubtful). Their main base at Axius was known (Blair would of course have told the Senate about it), and their main fighter carrying vessels are pretty easy to pick up out of a line up. Having a extremely limited number of Dragons, the BL would not have been able to put up much of a fight, at most they probably just delayed their inevitable collapse.

They say themselves as the future of humanity according to Tolwyn, however when all of humanity seems to want to do is get rid of you, your will to fight probably isn't that high. I'm going to wager a guess that maybe most of the BL just gave up outright and surrendered to confed and UBW forces. A few may have choosen to stand and fight but with both Tolwyn and Seether gone, their source for inspiration would of have to have been a fairly confident lower echelon officer.

Most likely it seems that the BL roundup was a small affair not occupying that much time or that great of a role in WC history, it was merely a mopping up after everything had been secured.

At least that's my pick on it....
 

psych

Destroyer of assclowns
Either way, any mopup against the Black Lance forces is going to be tough. The Black Lance are Special Forces operatives, genetically enhanced soldiers who specialize in guerilla warfare. The Black Lance was from a renegade portion of Confed Special Ops, and they don't fight by the book. Look at their "unconventional" weapons, fighters, and capships, and you can see their means of fighting is unorthodox. They think out of the box.

Of course, there were some guys who weren't extreme as their peers, as they grumbled about the Telamon Operation and you see Chris Roberts in a Black Lance uniform saying "and I couldn't go on!" in the ending of WC4. I can really see them trying to come back into Confed and try to set right what they've done wrong. But the more extreme will most likely not go down without a fight.

Afterall, how hard can a fight be, when the objective is to hunt down a group specifically trained to dissapear when expected and attack when not?

Very . . .
 

powell99

Aviation Junkie
I never thought I would say this but psych is right. I could see members going back to Confed to end the war. ALso I could see them hiding waiting for somthing. In this case the Nephilim. Honestly Confed would get hurt..bad and god knows about the UBW.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Hmm interesting points psych. I was just thinking that the loss of two of the leaders of the group might have caused their will to resist to drop. However, maybe some of the older BLs (1st generations like Seether) were more devoted and disappeared into the mist to wait for their next good chance to make a grab back into the spotlight.
 

Viper61

Spaceman
You also have to take into account that each of them are accessories to a few million murders on Telamon, multiple counts of terrorism against both Confed and the BW, etc etc the list goes on and on. I'm sure a few of them bargained for amnesty or reduced sentences to testify (like Chris Roberts BL character) but that little jewel of a way out would be in short supply. I'm sure there are quite a few who didn't know all that was happening in the BL, but everyone that was on the Axius base saw and heard what Tolwyn was planning and didn't do a thing to stop it. You would be left with most of the BL with several life sentences (if not executions) hanging over their heads if they returned to Confed.

I don't know about you, but thats not too much of an incentive for me to go peacefully. :) If you want a reason to fight to take the place of their fallen leaders, thats as good as any.

On the other hand, you've also got to assume that it took a very large contingent of the BL's members and allies to crew the Vesuvius. There really is no telling how many BL were left in the aftermath, but I tend to agree with psych that the ones that were left did anything but go quietly.

C-ya
 

Shipgate

Rear Admiral
What I didn't fully understand about the Black Lance was were they all genetically enhanced? Was the gen-select device merely to get rid of the people with bad genes? Because it just seemed like once the weapon was used on a planet, you just had a small population left and they were the ones with good genetics. But they weren't necassarily people with enhanced genetics. So we know that Seether was a product of genetic enhancement. But if they were capable of making soldiers through genetic enhancement, why have the bio weapon that killed a lot of people but just a few. Was it just to have them breed and make more babies with good genetics? Or did they take those people with good genetics and social recondition them to be Black Lance fighters?

p.s. Seether was awesome in that movie Thrashin'.
 

psych

Destroyer of assclowns
The Gen-Select device did two things, according to the WC4 novel

1) kill 90% of the population
2) made tiny alterations to the genetic code of the remaining 10%.

But most of the 10% survivors didn't survive anyway cause the secondary epidemics of cholera and other diseases (as a result of not enough man power to bury the 90% bodies and letting them rot out in the open) that came out.

"Remember guys, flies spread disease . . . so keep yours closed!"
 
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