Concordias in Harmony (April 27, 2005)

Bandit LOAF

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Cadet Tolwyn flew missions off the Concordia-class TCS Concordia during the McAuliffe Ambush... it blew up, but twenty years later Tolwyn was a Commodore commanding a battlegroup onboard another Concordia-class TCS Concordia. Then a few years later he personally took command of... the TCS Concordia (CVS-65) - flagship of the 14th Fleet. Confused? That's why we've updated and organized a Concordia FAQ for your reference! Impress your family and friends by being able to differentiate the histories, specifications and backgrounds of three different TCS Concordias.

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Original update published on April 27, 2005
 
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That was an elaborate and confusing pre-Action Stations theory to explain the similarities between the Concordia and the Lexington's deck plans in the WCIV novel. The revalation that WCIV's "Concordia class fleet carriers" are far older than the Terran Confederation class changed all this (it was a dumb theory, anyway -- Concordia and Terran Confederation class ships look nothing alike, and we're told in Joan's Fighting Ships that the Terran Confederation class is built around the PTC).
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You know, one of these days I'm going to write a Wing Commander book and push it through to publication just so I can canonize the "minus phase-canon" theory. All to annoy the starch out of you, LOAF. ;)

Seriously though, I've been reading through some of the movie adaption stuff lately. While I can understand that Tulep used both WC:A and the games to provide a bit more background, he doesn't actually leave enough space to say that they can be harmonized. Things like never having met Tolywn before, his first time on the Claw, etc. all don't harmonize with things like him and Maniac discovering the Kilrathi carrier, not knowing anyone on board, Bossman being dead and then alive again, etc. The handbook adds even more inconsistencies to the foray that confuse things even further. As far as I'm concerned, we have three WC universes: The games, the Movie, and the cartoons. They just happen to be retellings of each other, and thus have similarities in common.
 
Having read the books, you should know exactly how it fits in. The movie stuff takes place just between the cartoon and the books. He shouldn't know the other pilots. They weren't in Academy. Bossman was recovered, as the events in the movie just span a small number of hours. That's great that you think there's three universes, but that's now how the official storyline works. There's a reason we have one official set of products, or else everyone would pick what suits them and make their own universes. Now there are unofficial books and things that make of plenty of stuff. You'll never see us try to include those, and we're often discrediting things mention there.
 
The movie stuff takes place just between the cartoon and the books.
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Yes, good so far.

He shouldn't know the other pilots. They weren't in Academy.
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But he was on the Tiger's Claw. So he should know the ship, and its crew. Yet there's no sign of the crew in the cartoon. Perhaps only the cadets were stationed on board? But then why was the Claw consistently sent into war zones with a loadout of only pilots in training? Isn't she too valuable to risk like that? And shouldn't Blair and the Admiral know each other pretty darn well by the time of the Movie & adaption? Yet Tolwyn acted as if it were the first time they'd ever spoken! (i.e. the whole "I knew your father, you look like him.")

Bossman was recovered, as the events in the movie just span a small number of hours.
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I haven't gotten to the second book "Pilgrim Stars" yet, but page 101 suggests that he's still dead there as well.

Now there are unofficial books and things that make of plenty of stuff. You'll never see us try to include those, and we're often discrediting things mention there.
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Of course, "fan" stuff is always suspect. My poke at LOAF was that I would get an official book published. Just ePublishing a book doesn't count any more than those Star Wars books that had Leia and Skywalker as lovers. (Wouldn't *that* have been embarassing? :D)
 
You know, one of these days I'm going to write a Wing Commander book and push it through to publication just so I can canonize the "minus phase-canon" theory. All to annoy the starch out of you, LOAF.
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I bet the guy they had go over continuity stuff for all the more recent novels would kill that. :)

But he was on the Tiger's Claw. So he should know the ship, and its crew. Yet there's no sign of the crew in the cartoon. Perhaps only the cadets were stationed on board? But then why was the Claw consistently sent into war zones with a loadout of only pilots in training? Isn't she too valuable to risk like that? And shouldn't Blair and the Admiral know each other pretty darn well by the time of the Movie & adaption? Yet Tolwyn acted as if it were the first time they'd ever spoken! (i.e. the whole "I knew your father, you look like him.")
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The *only* episode of Wing Commander Academy that takes place before the movie is the first one (Red & Blue), where Blair and Maniac are assigned to the Tiger's Claw in the first place. All of the others occur months later (around the 2654 Sivar-Eshrad ceremony).
 
I originally thought the concordia was the same ship in all three situations, thanks for clearing that up.

-Rance-
 
I bet the guy they had go over continuity stuff for all the more recent novels would kill that.
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Betcha I could get it through without problem. Forstchen already laid the groundwork by more or less stating that the TCS Lexington was the same class as the TCS Concordia (CVS-65). (I get a kick out of how they used the Enterprise's number for the Concordia.) I'd reuse the Lady Lex (just out of repairs and again commanded by Captain Eisen) to head out as military support for an exploratory mission through a recently formed jump point (or perhaps just one beyond Kilrathi space). Various events and unexpected engagements later, Eisen gets frustrated (in his typical laid back fashion) and complains that what Confed really needs for dealing with the unknown is a carrier with all the explorartory staff and equipment built in. (Thus planting the seed for the Midway.)

One thing that would be fun to port from the Movie universe is the hopper drive. That would extend Confed's abilities beyond just that of jump point travel. (Or perhaps the ability of the enemy.) :)

The *only* episode of Wing Commander Academy that takes place before the movie is the first one (Red & Blue), where Blair and Maniac are assigned to the Tiger's Claw in the first place. All of the others occur months later (around the 2654 Sivar-Eshrad ceremony).
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Hmmm... okay, I'd buy that except for the fact that Blair is a full Second Lieutenant in the movie. In WC:A his rank is still Cadet.
 
The name plates on their quarters in the show read "2nd Lt {X}", and the press kit gives everyone the same rank. They must be refered to as cadet only in the context of their command training program.
 
Very good FAQ, by the way. I still don't quite get why an assault craft is being named "Harmony" - that sounds a bit ironic to me.

But finally I understood the PTC history. It's quite a while since I played WC2, and that must have slipped my mind.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
The name plates on their quarters in the show read "2nd Lt {X}", and the press kit gives everyone the same rank. They must be refered to as cadet only in the context of their command training program.
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Interesting. Still seems a bit odd. Also, another few tidbits out of place:

1. Page 204 of the movie adaption, Blair says he never met the admiral (which would be untrue if the universes were the same).

2. Knight was the guy flying the broadsword that blew up next to Paladin. Of course, we don't know if he ejected, but using Deverux's (sp?) pod as a reference, one would think that both him and Chen would be long dead if they didn't get picked up immediately.

AD said:
LOAF is talking about himself
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Yes, I know. I even saw his name in the Pilgrim Stars "thanks". I was dutifully ignoring his reverse pokes at my pokes. I still think I could get it past an editor. I just need to see if Roberts doesn't mind being bothered... ;)
 
1. Page 204 of the movie adaption, Blair says he never met the admiral (which would be untrue if the universes were the same).
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I suppose it depends how you define met.

Paladin is discussing interacting with (personally returning the ring to) Tolwyn. At this point in the timeline, Blair has been in a lineup of people spoken to by Tolwyn twice at that point (he didn't speak to Tolwyn either time, and Tolwyn didn't identify Blair personally either). Did they 'meet'?

I'd be hard pressed to say that I'd *met* professors whose classes I've attended for entire semester. We've all gone and heard famous people talk -- but we'd be hard pressed to claim we'd *met* them.

(Similarly, the claim is pretty nebulous anyway, since Blair and Tolwyn already had a conversation at the start of the movie... which Paladin was around for... so asking whether he'd ever *met* the Admiral must mean something more intimate than even this.)

Of course, on a greater scale, so what? If you can prove that there is an irreconcilable continuity error... what happens? How does that shatter everything apart?

Here's something that, while not impossible to fix, is a lot worse in my mind than any weirdness of movie phrasing: the Tiger's Claw has a different number of engines during spaceflight than it does in the end-of-game cutscenes in WC1. So, what was the result of me pointing that out? Did the original Wing Commander collapse in on itself and stop existing in your mind? Does this conclusively prove that WC1 contains *two* Wing Commander universes, the spaceflight universe and the cutscene universe?

2. Knight was the guy flying the broadsword that blew up next to Paladin. Of course, we don't know if he ejected, but using Deverux's (sp?) pod as a reference, one would think that both him and Chen would be long dead if they didn't get picked up immediately.
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Devereaux is the most common spelling.

There's a good theory about Chen out there - it's completely 'non canon', but it fits into a lot of established information about how the Wing Commander universe works. I'm sure you can find it in the forum archives.

Yes, I know. I even saw his name in the Pilgrim Stars "thanks". I was dutifully ignoring his reverse pokes at my pokes. I still think I could get it past an editor. I just need to see if Roberts doesn't mind being bothered...
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That actually wasn't my job for the movie novels... I was just happy to provide Mr. Telep with some information he wanted (and was actually credited, whereas I did it formally for some of the Baen stuff and got nothing).

Chris Roberts is a great guy and he's happy to talk to fans... but I don't think he'd have much say in a future Wing Commander release.
 
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