Chris Roberts

Delance

Victory, you say?
Farbourne said:
4). The whole mythical powers thing did bug me.
While I agree this is a major problem, maybe the powers weren't myuthical enoughg. Making calculationgs really fast isn't the most interesting of superpowers. The MacGuffin pretty much sucked.
 

Death

gh0d (Administrator)
"It's not faith, it's genetics."

Oh, and AGWC from 1997 called. It wants its WCM arguments back. :p
 

TopGun

Vampire Ace
I agree that the WCM had to appeal a broader audience aswel as WC fans. Plus sometimes it's nice to revist past events.

The same would happen with any movie based on a game series, take Monkey Island for example, if they ever mad a movie of it they would have to go back to the start.

Is there anywhere you can see the deleted scenes from WCM?
 

Death

gh0d (Administrator)
Yeah, my bad. I misremembered when WCM was released. +2 years doesn't really change much, though, it's still ancient territory.
 

Bearcat

Captain
Alright, some details.

Ok, I see the WC community is highly defensive about any product that slaps the WC name on itself and tries to pose as part of the series. Someone up there complained that I didn't give enough details, and honestly that's only because I thought everyone was on the same page with me about the movie, and about how the series progressed in general. So I'll give more details.

In general, my beef with our friend Chris is just that with every game in the series he gives us a puppy to love, and we spend the whole game protecting it, then in the next game he says, "Oh well, it died. Tough shit, you lose." And by "puppy" I mean:
WC1-2: The Tiger's Claw and most of it's crew, plus your career and 10 years of your life (cause they would retire a pilot with 500 kills just because he didn't save the day once)
WC2-3: The Concordia and most of it's crew, including Angel and Hobbes (that sleeper agent thing was BS)
WC3-4: Blair's girl is gone. So is his coolness. No longer a kick ass top gun, he's a redneck farmer for no good reason. Your very allegiance to the Confederation gets tossed too (how many years did Blair fight alongside those confed pilots? Then he just turns on them and starts murdering on a whim? No way)
Prophecy: Well, looks like you don't even get to keep Blair himself alive anymore. Good one, Chris. Guess who DID survive though. Halcon said we could blast him back in WC1, and by all rights we should have, but I guess the moral of the story is that being an asshole like Maniac pays off in the end.

The movie: Do I really need to elaborate? I wanted to like this movie, I really tried to be open minded about it, but the movie had nothing to do with the WC series. And that's fine, but it got my hopes up. And the production/acting values were pretty low. I thought everybody was together in collective frustration, but it seems like some people are just going secret service and protecting their messiah rather than understanding that you can't actually punch people over the internet and admitting that the man just goofed.

Probably just as a sign of the times, WC3 and beyond felt like they had lost their spirit. The formerly detailed cockpits became dull, capital ships looked like hollow boxes on the outside and in (graphics errors let you fly inside), the explosion of enemy fighters was anti-climactic, and the whole live action thing seemed unfortunate.

Back to the original point, I just wanted to know if the man's ever stopped by. I really do love the series, and 90% of my thoughts on the subject are positive. I don't mean to get bogged down on the negative. I've got tons of respect for the people who are working to bring the older games into modern technology, and I think the reason people like the pre-cinematic games so much has something to do with that great spirit that existed in those games that got worn off along the way.
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
Bearcat said:
...the movie had nothing to do with the WC series. And that's fine, but it got my hopes up. And the production/acting values were pretty low. I thought everybody was together in collective frustration, but it seems like some people are just going secret service and protecting their messiah rather than understanding that you can't actually punch people over the internet and admitting that the man just goofed.
Nobody said mistakes weren't made. And probably, Chris Robert's main mistake was not directing 3 or 4 other movies first. But assigning blame without understanding the choices made is juvenile and idiotic. No one said the movie was particularly good either. I happen to like it, but it honestly doesnt particularly work as a dramatic whole. But saying that it has nothing to do with WC is a stupid statment that only highlights yours and others ignorance. If a person wans to spend the time to understand it, apart from the difference in visual style, there really isnt anything that can't fit into the the complete timeline. And that includes the rapier and skipper missiles.

Probably just as a sign of the times, WC3 and beyond felt like they had lost their spirit. The formerly detailed cockpits became dull, capital ships looked like hollow boxes on the outside and in (graphics errors let you fly inside), the explosion of enemy fighters was anti-climactic, and the whole live action thing seemed unfortunate...
I though that was the point of wc3 though. The Terrans were losing and it was a desperate last ditch effort to end the war. And I do like the style of wc 1,2 better . What do you mean by indide? Your supposed to fly through the hangar... But yeah you could fly through walls too. I cant think of anything particularly wrong with the FMV. Have you seen some of the horrid stuff in other games with FMV from that era? Some of the acting wasnt perfect, but neither were the voice overs in WC2.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Bearcat said:
Ok, I see the WC community is highly defensive about any product that slaps the WC name on itself and tries to pose as part of the series.
This whole post is silly right from the start. The Wing Commander Movie was the culmination of years of concerted effort on behalf of Chris Roberts, Origin, IMGS, fans and more. If you're going to kick off your "explanation" with a backhanded compliment, nobody's going to take it seriously.

Bearcat said:
In general, my beef with our friend Chris is just that with every game in the series he gives us a puppy to love, and we spend the whole game protecting it, then in the next game he says, "Oh well, it died. Tough shit, you lose."
So it sounds like you're just bitter about the whole Wing Commander series for some reason.


Bearcat said:
The movie: Do I really need to elaborate? I wanted to like this movie, I really tried to be open minded about it, but the movie had nothing to do with the WC series.
You're still not providing a explanation. If you're going to come into a forum full of people who like the movie, the burden is on you to explain why, which you don't do. You're even further from addressing any facts relevant to its status in the Wing Commander universe.

Bearcat said:
I thought everybody was together in collective frustration, but it seems like some people are just going secret service and protecting their messiah
Why in the world would anyone have this agenda? If someone didn't like something, why would they bother defending it? This conspiracy theory makes no sense.

Bearcat said:
Probably just as a sign of the times, WC3 and beyond felt like they had lost their spirit. The formerly detailed cockpits became dull, capital ships looked like hollow boxes on the outside and in (graphics errors let you fly inside), the explosion of enemy fighters was anti-climactic, and the whole live action thing seemed unfortunate.
It was also the best selling Wing Commander game and held the record as EA's best selling PC game ever for quite a while. To this day, it's one of the highest rated and critically acclaimed computer games of all time. Your criticisms of the cockpits, fly-through flight decks and live actors are so unusual that I'm not sure you're not just a troll here.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Bearcat said:
Ok, I see the WC community is highly defensive about any product that slaps the WC name on itself
What a shocking statement. WC fans like WC. Surprise!

Bearcat said:
and tries to pose as part of the series.
Doesn't having WC name on it makes it a part of the series. That would be valid if people were claiming TIE Fighter was part of the WCU.

Bearcat said:
In general, my beef with our friend Chris is just that with every game in the series he gives us a puppy to love, and we spend the whole game protecting it, then in the next game he says, "Oh well, it died. Tough shit, you lose."
The game is supposed to be an war drama, where the player faces real loss. If you did feel sorry for the losses of WC, that makes it a good story, because it's hard to make the player care for the characters, let alone ships.

Bearcat said:
WC3-4: Blair's girl is gone. So is his coolness. No longer a kick ass top gun, he's a redneck farmer for no good reason.
Who are you, Maniac?

Bearcat said:
Your very allegiance to the Confederation gets tossed too
That's what Tolwyn said. Blair fight as he always have: "in the side of peace and honor". (Couldn't resist the WC4 debate quote, it's been a while).

Blair did what he did because he was loyal to Confed. He had to defeat a renegade faction which was not.

Bearcat said:
(how many years did Blair fight alongside those confed pilots? Then he just turns on them and starts murdering on a whim? No way)
He was not murdering them. He was fighting professional soldiers on legitimate military action on his part. He was trying to save the lives of millions of people.

Bearcat said:
Prophecy: Well, looks like you don't even get to keep Blair himself alive anymore. Good one, Chris. Guess who DID survive though. Halcon said we could blast him back in WC1, and by all rights we should have, but I guess the moral of the story is that being an asshole like Maniac pays off in the end.
First you agree which Maniac that Blair was a redneck farmer, then you are not a fan. The character of Maniac did evolve and he turned into someone better in the end.

Bearcat said:
Probably just as a sign of the times, WC3 and beyond felt like they had lost their spirit.
WC3 was the high point of the WC series. "Mankind was at its Zenith when fighting the Kilrathi."
 

Vermin

Spaceman
WC3 was the high point of the WC series. "Mankind was at its Zenith when fighting the Kilrathi."
I agree!

It was ground breaking and i remember buying it in 1995 maybe 96 (in the uk in the blue box - chuffed i still have it up on myshelf i often look up and think it was the best ever game i have played - having a collection of about 250 ish games it stills ranks as my most cherrished and the 2nd ever pc game i bought). For me the best parts of films/sagas/games are ones that pull you into the story, and most films do this by making it a struggle for the heros, fighting a war you are losing is going too be much more interesting than a war that you are winning, for example when i saw the behemeth i thought i was near the end of the game this thing was going too win the war, then the story just sucks you in more when...well you know :p .

Yes, im not a fan of the WC movie - but i am a fan of the games, the movie for me just wasnt compeling enough - the budget constraints added too the films problems, maybe with a bigger budget, better actors, a stronger story (the backbone story was ok but maybe it just needed more time too be worked on and fluffed out), i would of loved it - but it wasnt Chris Roberts fault.

Maybe ive been bastardized by big budget films.

I truly believe one day Chris may return too the WC universe with another game in the future - rights and EA giving them up or agreeing to another pending, but too say hes abandoned the community? thats wrong, because WC was his baby.

He has given everyone here something too come talk about, something too enjoy over and over again, and as was stated before mistakes were made down the line, but nothing is perfect. Comming here and saying alot of negative (and not backing them up) things about the WC universe and products, will and has achieved nothing.

Vermin
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
Bearcat said:
WC3-4: ... Your very allegiance to the Confederation gets tossed too (how many years did Blair fight alongside those confed pilots? Then he just turns on them and starts murdering on a whim? No way)
Something else I thought I should add here: apparently you did not play WCIV according to your conscience then. I hated the Idea of fighting other humans (much less confed) at first. The Idea of fighting against confed was so shocking the first time I played the game that I replayed without defecting right away to see that It was the right choice. I too wanted to blast cats. But mankind needed a saviour and it was me! So, I ask, where possible, did you spare human life? Did you load up on leech missiles and swtich to leech guns whenever possible? Did you disable the lexington instead of destroying her? Did you spare the Ella super base? I sure did. Blair isn't a heartless murderer. And it appears you're expressing anger at yourself for having made a choice against your conscience rather than an actual valid critism of the game... (or your mad at the game because it forced you to make a choice in that reagard perhaps :eek: )
 

RogueBanshee

Rear Admiral
Martini Doctor said:
What I meant is: Why had they to go back to the beginnings and couldn't simply go on after the last WC game?

For one thing they would need a new main character since Blair was missing presumed dead after the last expansion pack.

For another, as mentioned earlier most causal fans of Wing Commander think of it as Humans vs. Kilrathi so it would be confusing to have it set after the Kilrathi War.
 

TopGun

Vampire Ace
Bearcat said:
Ok, I see the WC community is highly defensive about any product that slaps the WC name on itself and tries to pose as part of the series. .
As others have said the Moive, is part of the WC Universe. It is a movie adaptation of the games, just like a movie adaptation of a book there will be difference to meet the needs of someone who is unfamilar with the game. Some of the changes angered me too, but I can watch the movie for what it is, a good Space Combat movie

Bearcat said:
In general, my beef with our friend Chris is just that with every game in the series he gives us a puppy to love, and we spend the whole game protecting it, then in the next game he says, "Oh well, it died. Tough shit, you lose." And by "puppy" I mean:
WC1-2: The Tiger's Claw and most of it's crew, plus your career and 10 years of your life (cause they would retire a pilot with 500 kills just because he didn't save the day once)
WC2-3: The Concordia and most of it's crew, including Angel and Hobbes (that sleeper agent thing was BS)
WC3-4: Blair's girl is gone. So is his coolness. No longer a kick ass top gun, he's a redneck farmer for no good reason. Your very allegiance to the Confederation gets tossed too (how many years did Blair fight alongside those confed pilots? Then he just turns on them and starts murdering on a whim? No way)
Prophecy: Well, looks like you don't even get to keep Blair himself alive anymore. Good one, Chris. Guess who DID survive though. Halcon said we could blast him back in WC1, and by all rights we should have, but I guess the moral of the story is that being an asshole like Maniac pays off in the end.
To quote Flash "Its a war people die all the time"

No ship or serviceperson is guaranteed to survive a war.

As for WC IV, Blair fights Confed to save it from itself

As for Prophecy, remember you don't play as Blair so you don't have to keep Blair alive, but he is more MIA than KIA anyway.

Bearcat said:
The movie: Do I really need to elaborate? I wanted to like this movie, I really tried to be open minded about it, but the movie had nothing to do with the WC series. And that's fine, but it got my hopes up. And the production/acting values were pretty low. I thought everybody was together in collective frustration, but it seems like some people are just going secret service and protecting their messiah rather than understanding that you can't actually punch people over the internet and admitting that the man just goofed.
I think it was pretty clear from the start tat most of the members of the forum like at least a little, the movie

Bearcat said:
Probably just as a sign of the times, WC3 and beyond felt like they had lost their spirit. The formerly detailed cockpits became dull, capital ships looked like hollow boxes on the outside and in (graphics errors let you fly inside), the explosion of enemy fighters was anti-climactic, and the whole live action thing seemed unfortunate.
You should never judges older games/movie by todays standards, doinf so rueins said game/movie

As others have said Confed were lossing the war, so the design of the Cap Ships and Fighters would reflect that. The simple answer is that it would be quicker to build the "hollow boxes" as you put it, and during a war, Cap Ships are needed and in vast amounts. All games have glitches, get over it
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Iceman16 said:
so did you. at least Martini Doctor was closer to the correct spelling.
It's a joke. Seance is also a word.

Vermin said:
Yes, im not a fan of the WC movie - but i am a fan of the games, the movie for me just wasnt compeling enough - the budget constraints added too the films problems, maybe with a bigger budget, better actors, a stronger story (the backbone story was ok but maybe it just needed more time too be worked on and fluffed out), i would of loved it - but it wasnt Chris Roberts fault.

Maybe ive been bastardized by big budget films.
Thanks, this is kind of what I'm talking about when I say it's fine to not like the movie if you have measured reasons to back it up.

Vermin said:
I truly believe one day Chris may return too the WC universe with another game in the future - rights and EA giving them up or agreeing to another pending, but too say hes abandoned the community? thats wrong, because WC was his baby.

He has given everyone here something too come talk about, something too enjoy over and over again, and as was stated before mistakes were made down the line, but nothing is perfect. Comming here and saying alot of negative (and not backing them up) things about the WC universe and products, will and has achieved nothing.
Aside from Chris Roberts, there have been dozens of former Origin employees and other people who've worked on Wing Commander who've come here and interacted with the fans. Many of them still do actively read what people have to say and are happy to know people are so into the series still.
 
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