Victory, you say?
I find that an interesting statement, considering a significant amount of religions (and religion-like ideologies) are indeed based on the future, and not the past. The very idea of historicism (particularly, but not necessarily Hegelian), which is used by some religions and philosophical systems, is based on the concept that time will improve everything, so there's no need to be "stuck" in the past.Bandit LOAF said:Oh, there's plenty: Amish, Shakers, Mennonites...
I don't think Privateer is so much a mean spirited critique of the Amish, though, as much as it is creating an intentionally hypocritical and overblown situation to criticize religion as a whole -- the message is that religion on the whole is stuck in the past, not specifically those religions that don't want laser cannons and jump drives.
I suppose what is behind that is mankind's age old pursuit of truth. If truth changes, then there's no need to care much about the past. If it doesn't change, than it's foolish to trade what you have for the latest version. But that leads to yet another question -- is truth something atemporal? If someone is holding to a truth that exists outside time, to claim they are "stuck in time" would make no sense, and the other way around, I suppose.
Back to WC, if that was the case, it was so heavy handed I missed it completely. Perhaps a more subtle and balanced critique would be more noticeable.
That sounds correct. Most of the secular utopia stuff comes from TNG, and it's very overt and preachy about it. On that greek gods episode on TOS, Kirk says Scotty doesn't require more gods, just the One, giving it a hint of monotheism. And it's not just about religion, there's the money thing that they began to take far too seriously, and some other items, like mankind being motivated solely by a selfless drive to evolve and help your fellow man. Yeah, right. It’s almost as if the cult status of Stark Trek had something to do with the devotion it preaches certain ideas. And, again, there’s a Futurama reference about it.Well, both these series' have their problems -- Star Trek suffers from an unfortunate cult of personality formed around Roddenberry in which the fandom believes Roddenberry had some kind of consistent well formed high minded belief system for Star Trek. In reality it's just something he hyped up when TNG started... and no one liked the stories or the setting that trying to force those ideas into the fiction resulted in.
Babylon 5, on the other hand, is just cloying.
Babylon 5 had its problems, but at least it doesn’t smack you in the forehead with the author’s worldview almost every episode. If anything, most characters tend towards a pantheistic belief on "the universe" (tiring, after a while). Curiously, some followers of this belief were not favorably portrayed on that hidden level episode. B5's non-commitment goes to great degrees: even "the Day of the Dead" episode doesn't outright say there's an afterlife, some characters that experience it are not totally convinced.
I agree. Some would say it'd be impossibly hard, in fact.(I also think there's a huge difference between saying you or someone you idolize is an atheist as a hip and cool image thing and actually being one... the latter being much, much harder.)
That's a very fine point. What we currently understand as separation of church and state is, in effect, a separation of religion and government, something that doesn’t' entirely happen with the Kilrathi. By our own standards, the government wouldn't be allowed to pull ships from the front lines for the sake of performing a ceremony.Here I would argue that the Kilrathi do have a distinct separation between church and state -- quite literally, in fact. This is exactly how their system is supposed to balance power... with the Cult of Sivar being run by an apolitical sect of priestesses and the Empire being run by the dominant clan.
Of course, in practice there's corruption... but both ways. Thrakhath can use his family connection to force the Cult to grant the nar Kiranka more power -- and that, in turn, results in other priestesses organizing their planets to rebel against the Empire.
The separation between church and state in Kilrathi society is why the Ghorah Khar rebellion worked -- Kilrathi have loyalty to a church that is theoretically independant of Thrakhath's regime.
Even from the point of Male/Female division of society, the Kilrathi are more developed than your generic sci-fi race. We ever saw Kilrathi males on WC1, but by SM2 we already knew that the females did have power, but for different reasons.