Chapter 3 - A Bond of Daring

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
A jump capable Ferret? Oh, I just love it when people make up utter idiocy. Where would you fit a jump drive on a Ferret? It would double its size
.
 
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Death's Head

Spaceman
Good poitn those things have a fuselage like a white pine tree trunk. I can barely imagine sitting in one, much less making room for a jump drive.

I thought Confed was having problems with jump drives in ships smaller than the Broadsword and we know how small that BUFF is. I know they eventually got the Morningstar to work, and maybe even the Sabre, but a FERRET?

Earthworm maybe I read your post wrong but didn't you just say he was shot down in a Sabre which is what I said, but you say he survives being shot down and is again shot down in a Ferret? When did he get into a Ferret? I don't recall reading about any Ferrets since End Run.

Maybe it has just been that long since I read a WC novel...
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Death's Head: Ever heard of ejection
?

...Hey, wait a minute. You're here, but you didn't post comments about my story
. What gives?
 
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Earthworm

Spaceman
Hunter was infact in a jump capable Ferret, I belive it was one of the many Landreich
fleet modifications.


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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton
 
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Death's Head

Spaceman
I am formulating an opinion quarto


sure I have heard of ejection, I just don't remember him doing so.

when was it that he bit into his cigar as six missiles homed in on his fighter then?
 
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Earthworm

Spaceman
Hunter was in a Confed Sabre, in one of the Landreich systems (Hell Hole I belive) and he was on a mission to find a Kilrathi Strakha, and destroy it before it can escape to the Kilrathi and give them information about the new purchase of Confed capships and fighters. Hunter found the stealth, but then it fired 3 new FF missiles (they weren't fooled by any decoys). Hunter evaded 1 of them, than went after the Strakha. The Strakha send out a burst signal back to Kilrathi and than autodestructed, so there wouldn't be any evidence left about the Kilrathi breaking the rules of the armistice. Than the two remaining missiles impacted Hunters fighters right when he ejected. He was caught by the gravity of a near by moon, and he was almost smashed on one of the mountains on the moon, but K'kai found him and tractored him aboard her freighter. Later Hunter was sent with Paladin as his copilot on the Bannockburn, a scout ship equiped with a captured cloacking device. After the Bannocburn got the info about the Hakaga class carriers and it going back to a system where the Tarawa was hiding. The Tarawa however landed on the surface of a gas giant to hide from Kilrathi ships which were massing in that system after the Kilrathi found out about the whole mission to find the new carriers. Bannockburn jumped into that system, but when they got there they couldn't find Tarawa, and Paladin ordered Hunter to get into the jump capable Ferret, the only fighter in the small cargo compartment of the scout ship and to get the iformation back to Landreich and than to Confed. Hunter instead stayed and covered Paladin. Then the new Kilrathi FF missiles started tracking Hunter. He was about to eject, but he stayed in his ship when he saw a Kilrathi fighter heading for the Bannockburn. He fired his one remaining missile after it along with a MD salvo, than he bit down on his cigar and the FF missiles impacted his fighter completly destroying it.

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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton
 

Earthworm

Spaceman
By the way Deth's Head, you realy need to reread Fleet Action.
There are many references to Ferrets, my favorite one is about the Ferret with an engine from a corvete.


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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton
 
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Earthworm

Spaceman
William R. Forstchen, the same guy who wrote most of the WC novels. Why would he be insane? We don't realy know why Confed doesen't put jump drives on all fighters. It could be because of the size, but it doesen't have to. It's more likely that a ship with afterburners would jump into a system and than waste all of it's fuel afterburning and than it can't get back. And Confed isn't about to start taking out burners from all of it's fighters. That would be illogical.
Also the Rapier from the movie (9m) which is smaller than the Ferret has a jump drive. And if you mean a Ferret with a corvete engine. Landreich has done many weird modifications to a lot of it's ships. Corvetes aren't THAT much larger than fighters, and they don't use one huget engine, but rathe couple small ones.

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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton




[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited February 08, 2000).]
 
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Quarto

Unknown Enemy
1. They don't put jump drives on all fighters because of size. A jump drive is at least as big as a normal engine.

2. The afterburners thing - the Morningstar had a jump drive. In fact, every ship afterwards that had a jump drive had afterburners. Which just proves number 1. Obviously, there were problems fitting a jump drive and AB's together on one ship.

3. I don't care what your stats say. The Rapier in the movie is huge compared to the Ferret. Even if it's the same lenght, remember that the Ferret is exceedingly narrow. Sometimes I wonder where the pilot puts his legs
. Just compare pictures of the two.

4. The average corvette is 4-5 times the length of a normal fighter. Also, the only Confed corvette that we know anything about - the Venture class, is 80 metres long (compare to Ferret's 10m), and nonetheless only has two engines. That, according to the diagram (hehe... I got photocopies of the WC 1 cap ships from the original WC 1 manual; eat your heart out, KSaga), would give each of those engines a diameter of... 6.7 metres. The engine is thus nearly as wide as the Ferret is long
.
To make things more interesting, one should note that the 360m long Exeter class Destroyer, only carries four engines, each more than 25 metres in diameter. This indicates that bigger ships use bigger engines, rather than more engines
.
A Kamekh class corvette in WC 2, btw, has engines nearly 15 metres in diameter.
You will also notice that WC 2 cap ships indeed have lots of smaller engines - but alas, while they seem small at first glance, they too, are at least 25 metres in diameter
. The smallest engines on any cap ship in WC 2 is the Free Trader (freighters generally appear to have much smaller engines), which has 3 metres or so of diameter. Unfortunately, that's still too much for the Ferret.
 
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Earthworm

Spaceman
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>1. They don't put jump drives on all fighters because of size. A jump drive is at least as big as a normal engine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you know that? It's never explained that it's because of the size.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>2. The afterburners thing - the Morningstar had a jump drive. In fact, every ship afterwards that had a jump drive had afterburners. Which just proves number 1. Obviously, there were problems fitting a jump drive and AB's together on one ship.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You may recal that the JD on the Morningstar was very problematic. And later ships, except the Dragon (or Lance) which has unlimited fuel, are newer than the Ferret.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>3. I don't care what your stats say. The Rapier in the movie is huge compared to the Ferret. Even if it's the same lenght, remember that the Ferret is exceedingly narrow. Sometimes I wonder where the pilot puts his legs . Just compare pictures of the two.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actualy the Rapier and Ferret are of about the same width, and the Ferret is almost 1.5m longer.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>4. The average corvette is 4-5 times the length of a normal fighter. Also, the only Confed corvette that we know anything about - the Venture class, is 80 metres long (compare to Ferret's 10m), and nonetheless only has two engines<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but we don't know if that Ferret had an engine from the Venture.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>That, according to the diagram (hehe... I got photocopies of the WC 1 cap ships from the original WC 1 manual; eat your heart out, KSaga), would give each of those engines a diameter of... 6.7 metres.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actualy it fits perfectly. 6.7 meters is a good length, it's said in the novel that the Ferret looked like an engine with a cockpit. And 6.7m wide engine wouldn't realy look that weird on an 11m long fighter if it's to look like an engine with a cockpit.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>The engine is thus nearly as wide as the Ferret is long<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, it would be 1.2m more than half of the Ferret.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>To make things more interesting, one should note that the 360m long Exeter class Destroyer, only carries four engines, each more than 25 metres in diameter. This indicates that bigger ships use bigger engines, rather than more engines .
A Kamekh class corvette in WC 2, btw, has engines nearly 15 metres in diameter.
You will also notice that WC 2 cap ships indeed have lots of smaller engines - but alas, while they seem small at first glance, they too, are at least 25 metres in diameter . The smallest engines on any cap ship in WC 2 is the Free Trader (freighters generally appear to have much smaller engines), which has 3 metres or so of diameter. Unfortunately, that's still too much for the Ferret.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Irrelevant, we're not talking about the Exeter, nor are we talking about tha Kamekh. Also, a 3 meter wide engine wouldn't be to big for a Ferret, it would be a little more than 1/4 of it's length.





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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton




[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited February 08, 2000).]
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy


I can't remember where, but it does actually say somewhere that the lack of jump drives on fighters is due to size. And yes, later ships are obviously newer
... They also have access to smaller jump drives. In WCP, it would appear as though even the lowly Piranha has a jump drive.

The rapier and Ferret may be of the same width around the engine, but the Ferret is only a fraction of a metre from the cockpit and onwards. That means that a lot of its systems are sitting in the engine section. Besides, the Rapier flew into an open anomaly; jump drives are needed to open a jump tunnel.

No, we don't know if the Ferret had an engine from the Venture. But as you can see, the smallest engine is 3 metres in diameter. That one was not used, because it's not a corvette engine
. Thus, we know that the smallest engine available is 6.7 metres in diameter. And it would look incredibly weird. Furthermore, the pilot would have no rear visibility, no maneouverability, and no way to power the engine, because cap ships use Matter/Anti-Matter to power their drives. A Ferret would only have a tiny power plant; certainly not enough to power this engine. And don't tell me that the engine comes with its own powerplant - if this was the case, then why don't Broadswords use corvette engines? That would double their speed. Imagine a bomber which cruises at 640 kps, and has unlimited afterburners...
Oh, and it would not be 1.2 m more than half the Ferret, because the Ferret is only 10 metres, not 11. That means that 6.7 is exactly two thirds.

All those other examples were relevant. I was just showing you that Corvettes do not use lots of small engines, but rather big ones
. The Exeter and Waterloo only proved this.
 
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Earthworm

Spaceman
The Ferret is 10.4 meters
, not eleven like I said earlier, but almost. Anyhow, the 3m wide engine doesen't have to be the smallest one available. There could have been other corvetes with smaller engines.

Yes the Rapier flew into an open anomaly, but that doesen't change the fact that it does have a standard jump engine. And the Ferret has at least 1.5 meters from the end of the ship to the cockpit, and more than enough room for the instruments.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>Furthermore, the pilot would have no rear visibility, no maneouverability, and no way to power the engine, because cap ships use Matter/Anti-Matter to power their drives. A Ferret would only have a tiny power plant; certainly not enough to power this engine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point, buy not all fighters have rear visibility, the Broadsword practicly doesen't have any, the Longbow doesen't, the Avenger doesen't. And since the engine doesen't have to power a capship anymore, they can throw in a smaler power plant, they took out the old one, replaced it with the larger one. I'll try to make a concept drawing of the Ferret with that engine to see how it could look like.


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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton
 
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Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Nope, it's 10.2m. That's what the manual says, and the manual is always right
. And I doubt the existence of smaller corvettes - the Venture was already a mere 80 metres. Any less then that, and it would be a fighter
. As such, we can assume that they only get bigger (note that all WC cap ships progressively get bigger over the series).
Like I said, the nose of the Ferret is very narrow. Life support has to go somewhere... More importantly, life has to go somewhere. Where do you think the pilot puts his legs?

Regarding rear visibility. You will note that each of the fighters you mentioned is actually a bomber, and has a rear turret. As such, it does in fact have excellent rear visibility... Just not from the cockpit.
If they throw in a smaller power plant, then the engine cannot attain full power. That would be just a tad useless, non? Essentially, you'd have a Ferret with the speed of a Ferret (well, maybe another 100kps, not much when you're already going 500kps), but with the maneouvrability of a dead cow, and the looks of a rusty fridge
. Doesn't sound like a great Patrol Fighter to me
.
Go ahead and do a concept drawing. Just keep in mind that the engine is approximately twice as long as it is wide, or more. That means that if you want to use the 6.7 metre engine, you'll be doubling the lenght of the Ferret.
Anyway, I'm afraid I have to go now. I'll be back later... Much later.
 
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Matrix

Rear Admiral
Can you two please keep it down? I'm trying to sleep here. =)
Seriously, since on the topic of tech specs.
I've recently looked up the tech specs of the WC ships, I've noticed there are quite a few indiscrepancies (sp?). The major one being in the shield/armor ratings. I mean how does one fit 2.5m thick armor on a 15m ship?
Then we have the odd YPR rates in the earlier WCs.
Then there's the matter of anthropometrics and ergonomics. We already know that would have to be one skinny ass pilot sitting in a Ferret. Heh, no wonder Paladin doesn't fly any more. =P
As for the lack of the Akwende drive on earlier craft - I agree it was due to size. Isn't minaturisation wonderful?
 

Earthworm

Spaceman
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR>I've recently looked up the tech specs of the WC ships, I've noticed there are quite a few indiscrepancies (sp?). The major one being in the shield/armor ratings. I mean how does one fit 2.5m thick armor on a 15m ship?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The later ships (wc3-Prophecy) use a new material for armor. Their armor isn’t realy 2.5m thick, but more like an equivlant of a piece of durasteel that’s 2.5m thick.


Quatro, let’s not forget that Landreich doesen’t exactly use new ships. The corvete that they puled the engine from could have been very, very old.



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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton
 
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Matrix

Rear Admiral
But what about the shield ratings? They jumped incredibly too. I think it's a matter of the programmers using their own units in the game engine. That's why Armada suddenly has such light ships.
 

Earthworm

Spaceman
Well, the ships did get bigger in WC3, and since they have a new material, they could have some spare space inside the fighters to put in better shield generators.

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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton
 

Earthworm

Spaceman
Behold! A picture of the new experimental Ferret with a BIG ENGINE!




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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton
 
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