Cap ships vs. Fighters in WC2

junior

Spaceman
Here's something that's bugged me over the years.
When I played WC2 ages and ages ago, I noticed what I thought was the strangest thing. When attacked by fighters, capital ships would use their main guns against them. So, for example, if the Concordia was attacked by a wing of Gothri fighters, it would use its Phase-Transit Cannon against them, and dispatch them quite handily. So far so good. Makes my life a little easier.
The problem, of course, arose when I was the one attempting to bomb a cap ship, and the main guns were being fired at me. I think I finally had to input the invulnerable cheat to finally take out the ships in the last mission in the Special Ops 1 add-on (two cruisers, iirc) because as I would make my torpedo run on the first cruiser, both would turn toward me and pick me off at long range with incredibly accurate fire from their main guns (one hit, one kill against fighters).
I don't recall seeing this during the main campaign of WC2. I only remember it in the Special Ops add-on (just the first, as I never played the second one).
Was this some weird thing unique to my situation, or did others encounter this as well?
 

Skybolt

Spaceman
Yup, I had a hard time attacking cruisers in WC2. The best tactic is to lock a torpedo outside the range of cruisers guns and then afterburn towards the cruiser, and hope you release your torpedo close enough not to be picked off by cruisers guns, but yet to still have room to evade smacking into cruiser.
And yes, that mission in SO is a killer...
 

Talyn 83

Spaceman
We just know how to fly, that's all.:D
No, I was all over the place when I played that mission. I just did some evasive maneuvering. Which was pretty hard.
But, when I replayed the game once, I just put myself in a position where you can't see the second carrier because it's behind the first. That way it can't hit you either. And that worked too.

Skybolt's tactic also worked nicely.
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
Cap ships firing their AMGs at you in Wc2 is nothing special, happens all the time <g>. You just have to try to evade the blasts. It's not always easy, even thought they move so slowly.

The Concordia fires her Phase-Transit at fighters? Now that's what I call overkill... :)
 

Skybolt

Spaceman
I have to try out that tactic of yours. It's called "Eclipse" in the manual, right?
Did you ever finish the mission in WC1 when you have to save that captured Ralari that is being attacked by four Grathas? It took me about a kazillion times till I finished it. Guess who was the happiest man on the block that day?:) :)
Shoo, I did it again. Ok, I'll try to remember. Gratha,Gratha,Gratha... (can't see a difference between k and h in that funky font:) )
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
If you're talkng to me: I did finish it, yes. I almost always succeeded by not autopiloting to the ralari but cruising there normally. Some say that doesn't have any effect on the mission but it always worked fine for me. Even if it's only psychological, victory is what matters. :)

(BTW: It's Gratha. :))
 

junior

Spaceman
Locking the torpedoes out of gun range sounds good in theory, and worked fine in the original WC2 campaign. Never worked in the SO missions for a very simple reason.
I could never stay out of gun range.
Open the distance up to keep the cruisers from picking me off, and by the time I'm parked and spun around, the cruisers are already turned halfway around. The finish their spin, and start closing the distance. I don't think the torpedo was ever locked by the time they started firing those anti-matter guns at me.

Makes you wonder why they bothered with the flak cannons.

*grumble*
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
Did you use the "F12" key? You can fly out of target range, the use F12 to get a view of the cap ship. If you thenreturn to the cockpit view you have a lock, even if the cap ship is over 20,000 clicks away.
 

Skybolt

Spaceman
Well, that tactic worked for me. I haven't played SO2 for a while, but now I'll go and finish it once again and I'll find the way how to blow those cruisers! ( Actually, I'm just making an excuse to stay up all night:D )
 

junior

Spaceman
I don't remember which view 'F12' was, but you could get torpedo lock using it? Seems a little odd, to put it bluntly.
*shrug*

Makes you wonder why they would even bother to put flak turrets on cap ships, though. For that matter, makes you wonder why they would even build fighters, since fighter wings making bombing runs tend to disintegrate the moment they get within range of the guns.
 

Penguin

Spaceman
Junior: I know how you feel. I too have yet to finish that SO1 mission and can still remember entire afternoons spent perishing at the hands of those Fralthras. To this day I retain an abiding hatred of Gothris and Fralthras...

Anyways as for your questions. Flak turrets ensure that any torpedo you fire from more than 2-3000 klicks won't reach the cruisers. If not for the flak guns you could fly out to say 20-30,000 klicks, lock torps from max range and fire and bombing runs would be sweet.
Also fighters are meant to waste other fighters making it easier for capships to survive. Consider the case of transports that lack phase shields that repel all fighter weaponry, excepting torpedoes.

Woo hoo!! I just made Lt. Col. :D

PS: I remember Quarto saying awhile ago that capships can't use their AMGs at you unless they turn to face you. So if you can stay off their beam...
 

AzraeL

Spaceman
Okay, here's my tips for a successfull torp attack.

First, get well outside gun range (12-15,000), stop and turn. Crawl slowly back towards the target (or be patient and let them come to you). As soon as the torp starts to lock (should be about 12,000 - well outside AMG range), stop and wait. If the target is not moving, you can just sit there until the torp is locked. Otherwise, you may need to start the next step a little early.

Make sure you are moving before the target gets within AMG range. In a Broadsword/Crossbow, you probably want to be going at full speed. In a Sabre/Morningstar, you can probably afford to go a little slower. Do NOT head straight towards the target. The torp can achieve lock over a certain range of angle. You want to be at close-to-maximum angle (if you lose lock, you've gone too far :) ). Hopefully, the target will fire its AMG while you are still some distance away (8000+). If you immediately change direction, you should able to dodge the AMG fire while maintaining the torpedo lock. Once you have successfully dodged the AMG, head straight in towards the target. Fire at around 3000 then turn and get the hell out.

This process is easiest in a Sabre or Morningstar - you can afford to head slowly towards the target, and lure them to fire the AMG at maximum range, then burn in, launch and burn out. In a Broadsword it is more difficult, because you have to get your timing and distances right such that you are sufficiently far away to dodge the first AMG shot, but close enough to lumber in, launch, and turn away before they can fire a second time. Remember to fly in a spiral on your way out, and listen for if/when the AMG is fired - that is a good time to turn sharply.

The most important thing is patience. Remember, if you are forced to break lock to dodge the AMG fire you can always pull back and try again. If you don't dodge, you can't :D
 

Zor Prime

That guy.
Here is a really simple strategy for winning against capships: Destroy it!

But actually, I wait till the last second to fire the torp, that way it can't get shot down, which is the fate of most torpedoes.
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
Originally posted by junior
I don't remember which view 'F12' was, but you could get torpedo lock using it? Seems a little odd, to put it bluntly.
*shrug*
(...)
You can cycle through all ships with this view (you see them from behind). MAybe it was F9 but I think it was F12, trust me. I used it often enough.

BTW: Generally I trust Quarto's words but I think the capships in WC2 could fire their AMGs at you from any angle.
 

The Phantom

Spaceman
I never had any problems with the AMGs. Maybe it's just the way I fly, I usually never stay in a straight line for long, even when aiming torps:) . This usually results in me having to line up the torp several times before gaining anything close to a lock. However, I find I usually end up launching the torp from behind the ship, seems to work (except when those damn flak cannons pick off my torp:mad: ). Anyways, you might want to try from behind and just hope that they can't turn around fast enough.
Good Luck!;)
 

junior

Spaceman
Phantom - believe me, they turn fast enough. They can make a 180 degree turn in less time than it takes for you to gain torpedo lock.

Mekt-Hakkit - Its been a while, but I'm fairly certain that the AMGs only fire to fore.

Zor Prime - Um... the problem we're discussing is how exactly one reaches point blank range to fire those torpedoes in the first place.
 

Zor Prime

That guy.
Originally posted by junior
Zor Prime - Um... the problem we're discussing is how exactly one reaches point blank range to fire those torpedoes in the first place.
Its really not that hard. Judt don't fly in a straight line. Keep moving and fly in very erratic patterns. It is a little bit harder in wing 2 than in 3,4 or P, but it still works if you're good enough.
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
Originally posted by junior
(...)

Mekt-Hakkit - Its been a while, but I'm fairly certain that the AMGs only fire to fore.

(...)
Been a while for me too and I am fairly certain that they can fire at you regardless of your position. Now what? :D

Isn't perhaps somebody here who just recetnly played WC2 and paid attention to this detail?
 

Talyn 83

Spaceman
Man, I'd be happy to answer that one for ya, but all that springs to mind right now is...analysis.

:eek: Too much math...must stop studying...but must become engineer to build wc-style spaceships...too much info...cannot process...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Why is it that Ican't study a 200 page text book in an hour?
Because it makes me go crazy, that's why

Ekki-Ekki
 
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