Camel Cockpit WIP

Howard Day

Random art guy.
Here's the start of the Camel's cockpit. it's still missing much of the main instrumentation, as well as the chairs and doors. This should give you a good idea of the direction it's headed, though. And that's your trusty sidekick "Sir Biped" standing (err....sitting) in for the co-pilot.
http://www.hedfiles.net/wcpioneer/Camel01.mov
 

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Cam

Spaceman
That's friggin sweet dude. I love the wood/leather interior. However, to me it looks a lot like a cocoon... I was imagining more of a high end car-inspired interior, like a Bently. ;)

Keep up the great work Howie
 

Maj.Striker

Swabbie
Banned
That is awesome! I love the woodwork and plush interior. Makes you think you are driving the Cadillac of spaceships. :) Really nice work already.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Well, it looks really, really great... but I hate it.

More specifically, I don't get it. Car/plane manufacturers don't just put padding all over the place. They put it where it's needed. Here, I simply don't see what purpose all this padding has. Frankly, it looks more like a room in an insane asylum (you know, one of those all-padded rooms designed to prevent people from hurting themselves) than a cockpit.

I think, when designing these new cockpits, you should try to imagine what you're doing through the eyes of the actual people designing the cockpit in a ship inside the WC universe. What would they put in there? Padding, padding everywhere is definitely not the answer. This cockpit looks fantastic - but you're not supposed to just make it look fantastic, you're supposed to make it look right. This one doesn't look right, it looks very, very wrong. It doesn't make an ounce of sense.
 

Aplha 1-1

Spaceman
Nice looking cockpit, makes me think of a cross between a federation runabout and my dads old Triumph TC2500, and that was a sexy car.
That said Quatro has a point - maybe in some kind of seperate crew cabin the look would be great but in the cockpit optional headrests/armrests wouldn't fit. Maybe cut some of the trimming a bit but then again we aint seen it with panels and flight-stick yet.

......those babies come with cupholders? ;)
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Quarto said:
I think, when designing these new cockpits, you should try to imagine what you're doing through the eyes of the actual people designing the cockpit in a ship inside the WC universe. What would they put in there? Padding, padding everywhere is definitely not the answer. This cockpit looks fantastic - but you're not supposed to just make it look fantastic, you're supposed to make it look right. This one doesn't look right, it looks very, very wrong. It doesn't make an ounce of sense.

I passionately disagree with you. If this where a military ship, you'd be right. It's not. It's a civilian ship. So, in keeping with your train of thought about the actual people who are flying this ship- they're civilians, not military. I don't know how it works in your part of the world, but over here, luxury cars have tons and tons of usefull gizmos and functions that are INTEGRATED inside an atractive package... they have a word for that... if only I could remember... ah, yes- marketing.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Unregistered said:
I passionately disagree with you. If this where a military ship, you'd be right. It's not. It's a civilian ship. So, in keeping with your train of thought about the actual people who are flying this ship- they're civilians, not military. I don't know how it works in your part of the world, but over here, luxury cars have tons and tons of usefull gizmos and functions that are INTEGRATED inside an atractive package... they have a word for that... if only I could remember... ah, yes- marketing.
Ah, yes, indeed, marketing.

You are, of course, correct. Marketing is that strange and uncanny force that results in the average semi-trailer having an interior that looks like something from a hyper-expensive luxury cruiser crossed with an insane asylum.

No, wait, it does't. I've never seen a semi-trailer with an interior approaching anywhere close to this level of luxury. Why? Because nobody wants to spend money on such useless luxuries. You might want your fancy sports car to be luxurious on the inside - but you will never, ever care about such things in a utilitiarian car, because you'll be more concerned with useful features. The manufacturer won't waste money on padding out the walls - he'll instead spend it making the car go the extra ten km/h faster.

I mean, what was the Camel called before? Hauler, wasn't it? Or Fighter, or Hunchback... I don't remember. But I do remember what it wasn't called - Luxury Yacht.

In short, civilian does not equal luxurious.
 

BradMick

Vice Admiral
Quarto said:
In short, civilian does not equal luxurious.

it does with the Camel (originally known as hauler).

the idea was simple, the cockpit of this puppy was to look as luxurious as possible.

and, this isn't some semi trailer, so using a semi trailer as an example seems a bit silly. Sure it does haul stuff, but the cockpit is where the pilot spends all of his time, making it as comfy and luxurious looking isn't so bad, and since a merchant is going to be able to do a lot more (i.e. eventually be able to own a planetary manufacturing deal and have himself one hellluva merchant empire) than just run around all alone, it fits that the ship looks all high class to fit the play style.

I love it howard, keep up the great work!
 

Maj.Striker

Swabbie
Banned
Quarto said:
Ah, yes, indeed, marketing.

You are, of course, correct. Marketing is that strange and uncanny force that results in the average semi-trailer having an interior that looks like something from a hyper-expensive luxury cruiser crossed with an insane asylum.

No, wait, it does't. I've never seen a semi-trailer with an interior approaching anywhere close to this level of luxury. Why? Because nobody wants to spend money on such useless luxuries. You might want your fancy sports car to be luxurious on the inside - but you will never, ever care about such things in a utilitiarian car, because you'll be more concerned with useful features. The manufacturer won't waste money on padding out the walls - he'll instead spend it making the car go the extra ten km/h faster.

I mean, what was the Camel called before? Hauler, wasn't it? Or Fighter, or Hunchback... I don't remember. But I do remember what it wasn't called - Luxury Yacht.

In short, civilian does not equal luxurious.

True...after all, Geo Metro does not equal luxury. However this cockpit reminds me a lot of the interior of my 300M (at least as far as the neat woodgrain and plushy looking cushion area. To me, it would make perfect sense that a trade ship would look comfortable and luxurious inside. Historically speaking, Merchants were known for their lavish surroundings, their ships were certainly no exceptions. Look at a 17th century merchant clipper (sailing vessel) and you’ll note quite an internal decoration in the captain’s cabin. The merchant vessels were typically slower, under armed, more designed towards hauling large shipments of cargo. Despite this “hauler” design, the cabin was usually extravagantly decorated.
 

Cargoman

Spaceman
Fantastic looking interior !!

But..Quarto has a point , not as strong a one as he is trying to make , but a point.
Yes it is an upgraded utilitarian freight vechicle , but... it is a luxury version .
If you look at the "long haul sleepover" semi-tractors on the market (in the U.S.)
the amount of useless padding and contoured surfaces are surprising .
While in it's current form it is surely closing in on the Roles/Bentley look ,
it is missing the Freightliner part of its ancestory . The co-pilot view is great and
I would change very little there . The alcove ? breakfast nook ? whatever doesn't
seem to fit . Maybe a mini pilot lounge/break area would seem more accurate .

Quarto this is the pilots home as well as his tool for earning a living. A little luxury
in his life is why they would pay more for this craft , verses a more stripped,
bare bones freighter with less handling, slower speed, but more hauling capaticy .
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
BradMick said:
and, this isn't some semi trailer, so using a semi trailer as an example seems a bit silly. Sure it does haul stuff, but the cockpit is where the pilot spends all of his time, making it as comfy and luxurious looking isn't so bad, and since a merchant is going to be able to do a lot more (i.e. eventually be able to own a planetary manufacturing deal and have himself one hellluva merchant empire) than just run around all alone, it fits that the ship looks all high class to fit the play style.
So... what you're saying, basically, is that a merchant might end up running a huge trading empire... from the inside of a cramped little ship that can be blown away by one or two pirates? :p It just doesn't make sense - either this is a small trading ship - i.e., a semi-trailer - or it's a luxury yacht for a successful merchant. It can't be both... and in either case, I'm not actually complaining about the interior being too rich, I'm complaining about it being too ridiculous. What exactly is the purpose of all that stupid padding? I can understand its presence in a room occupied by a dangerous nutcase... but I can't understand its presence here. Is it there to prevent the pilot from repeatedly ramming his head into the wall? You look at the padding and you see a luxurious interior... I look at it and I see a complete waste of several square metres of space - those walls could've been used for all manner of things, but instead they ended up becoming a five-metre-long pillow. I simply have a hard time understanding why the people producing these ships would want to do that. Those giant pillows don't make the ship any more luxurious or comfortable to live in - they make it worse by taking up precious space that could've actually been used for something.

I mean, really, if you want to show that it's a well-equipped ship, do it by putting in stuff that actually makes sense. Put in a little kitchenette, a bunk, a giant television set, shelves filled with creepy-but-expensive Kilrathi statues as status symbols... whatever. But it needs to make sense, and this doesn't.
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
Okay, I can see the problem. First off, this is not a small trading ship - nothing on the order of a Drayman, of course, but it is at least the size of the Galaxy. It's very close to half-again the size and cargo area... Biggest player-flyable ship in the game. It's also the most expensive ship in the game - by far - and it needs to look as such. As for the padding... It's upholstering. Not uncommon in expensive civilian items. Those panels could contain anything...flip-up Storage buckets (like in airliners), power systems, contraband storage, whatever. The descision to pad them over isn't as ridiculous as you make out. Moreover, you've not seen the end result that I'm trying to get here - the details aren't even 50% of the way there yet. There's a large table and a bunch of technology and seating that's going to be placed back there. I'm also not ruling out the possibility (in fact I planned to do so - not a lot of room back there in it's current configuration...) of making the side panels not as obtrusive, but they'd still be there when I finished.
Finally, If you choose to be a merchant-baron in this game, you will be running your operation from this ship!
Anyhow, I hope I can come to a solution that can please most everyone. I'll be working on this for most of the day today, and I'll get periodic updates out as often as possible.
 

Cargoman

Spaceman
Again Quarto has a point but....
Yes a wall of plush upholstery is a true waste , and I would prefer to see a
oversized display screen or star chart , ect. ect..
However the living/working areas of this ship should have lots of room .
The kind of "wasted space" that would make a starting freighter pilot ,
who is worried about making his ship payment , blanch .
In a space craft , room is an absolute premium , to have so much just to
give an area a roomy feel screams luxury .
 

BradMick

Vice Admiral
yup. the camel is not a ship you just run out and say 'oh hey! i'm gonna buy a camel!' at 12,500,000 credits, it's a very pricey ship. so by the time you get to the 'merchant baron' deal, the camel is very much so the cream of the crop ship choice, because up until that point you're probably going to have been running around in a Tarsus (or for the adventurous) the Hunchback.
 

Cam

Spaceman
Maybe you should allow players to rack up bling points by modding their ships. I'd like some spinners and a chrome grill on my Camel please, thanks.

j/k :D

I think the point here is, when I said Camel = Escalade, is that while it has a functional aspect (SUV for the Escalade for instance) you're really not going to be buying it for that. You're buying it because it's got style, it's got class, and that it's more for show than for work.

What would be interesting is to see how characters in-game react to you based on your social class or appearance of social class. Small-time traders might not want to deal with someone flying a Camel, but larger corporations might like you more. It'd also make you a greater target for pirates...

I suppose the mechanics of gameplay might already have been set but this is an interesting idea, eh?
 
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