Buyable Ships

[MamiyaOtaru]

Gah.. so the consensus (of two people ) is that the orion is still useless. No wonder no one wanted to model it lol.

It is capable of carrying far thicker shields than the other ships. However, it isn't gauranteed that enemy Orions will be carrying the heaviest possible. Also, given the rate shields get chewed through when an AI gets a good bead on you with its "rather good" aim, having heavy shields doesn't really offset lack of maneuverability.

A fix for this sounds like a mix of encouraging AI Orions to have heavier shields, borking AI aim a bit, adding a bit of maneuverability and some cargo space.. I always thought it ridiculous that it had the same cargo space as a centurion.. The tweaking never ends

 

[Unregistered]

Viability

Gah.. so the consensus (of two people ) is that the orion is still useless. No wonder no one wanted to model it lol.

It is capable of carrying far thicker shields than the other ships. However, it isn't gauranteed that enemy Orions will be carrying the heaviest possible. Also, given the rate shields get chewed through when an AI gets a good bead on you with its "rather good" aim, having heavy shields doesn't really offset lack of maneuverability.

A fix for this sounds like a mix of encouraging AI Orions to have heavier shields, borking AI aim a bit, adding a bit of maneuverability and some cargo space.. I always thought it ridiculous that it had the same cargo space as a centurion.. The tweaking never ends

Well, I hope you aren't counting me in with those two. I have NOT been able to resolve the menu issues with my current vid card, so I can't tell you what I think about your "current" version of the Orion.

Someone has graciously donated a GX-400 card and we'll see what we see. MAYBE it'll work. If it does, I'll be happy to run an Orion for a bit and give you my thoughts.

In the original game, I thought the cargo space that it had was USELESS and that it was nothing more than a sitting duck. If you had an Orion from early on, you were FORCED into taking on MERC runs that go tyou killed right off, or were pretty much limited to Mission cargo if you wanted a chance at any of the occasional space debris.

With a lumbering ox of a ship that had shields that were all but useless and firepower that was as limitied as the original ship you started with, what was the point in spending that much cash for so very little? I sure didn't want to be a big fat target, and if I was, I at least wanted a chance to run some of my OWN cargo along with that of the missions. It was one of those, fill the hold and run with an empty expansion so that you could tractor in the real money.

The Orion didn't give you much room at all and behaved worse than the Tarsus for handling.

You really need to add cargo space, some speed, AND some manoeuvrability to make the ship viable as it sits. That or make it a REAL tank. Why buy it if you're going to be a target that hasn't got a chance? The Galaxy is faster, has loads of cargo space and is MUCH more manoeuvreable, if still not very controlable for the first few missions while you get used to it.

After having played the original game, you almost have to give me an incentive to take on an Orion. I think a LOT of people are going to feel the same way about it. Being able to have a fleet and being able to switch ships is a nice option, BUT I think few people will opt to have the Orion as part of their fleet because of their original experiences with it.

There are SOME runs where flying a Galaxy is something you WANT to do, but I really don't think it has as much cargo space as it should. It has like, HALF what I think it should have had. The Orion, for as much of a tank as it's supposed to be has WAY too little, it should hold as much as the original Galaxy did. Etc. . . Where is the incentive if you trade DOWN from the Tarsus in cargo, and more or less stay the same or DEGRADE in manoeuvreability and speed? Why change? For the added shields that don't really do anything except prolong your death by one or two passes?

No thanks.

Thank you for looking at it.

As it stands in the original game, I tweak the TRE files to make the bird a bit faster and manoeuvreable while dropping the shields some. At least it becomes more of an attack bird that way. Personally, I think it should have four forward facing guns, along with more cargo, speed and manoeuvreability.

More or less along the lines of the current american gunship, the Tank killer, the Warthog A-10.

Low and slow, a tank in the air, with a TON of firepower. It takes a LOT of abuse before going down. AND it can move about better than MOST of the jets, BECAUSE it's so slow.

Think about it, won't you?

Thanks.

HellcatV
Would another 256MB RAM and a GX-400 make a difference for me running the game?

Wendy.

 

[Lynx]

I WANT THE ORION TO BE LIKE THE GALAXY ONLY DIFFERENT!!!11!onetwo

 

[Unregistered]

Now that I think about it. . .

Now that I'm thinking about it, and you "cannon" heads, please understand where this is coming from, the story line is that you inherrited the Tarsus.

Now, as a privateer, you shouldn't have emotional ties to a ship, but I did have an emotional attachment to my first couple of cars. AND in the original game, I LOVED what was left to me. I HATED to get rid of it. I REALLY did!

Did anyone ever have a Vega or a Pinto? Especially for one of their first sets of wheels? I had both cars and enjoyed them immensely. I Loved Vinnie. Yes, I named my Vega. What do you expect from a girl? I got my vega when I was 16. When the engine finally died, Hey, aluminium block and Iron rings on the pistons make a match from hell. Okay? Anyway, when the engine died, I put an H.O. 400 C.I.D. small block V-8 under the bonnet. I DID THE WORK, I did NOT pay to have it done, and the parts and modifications cost me almost four times what sleeving the original power-plant or buying another engine would have cost me.

Maintenance cost me BIG TIME, too.

Yes, I had to all but remove the power-plant to do a tune-up. Undo the motor mounts and lift it up, or drop the support crossmember and raise the body to get at the rearmost spark-plugs. VERY expensive to maintain, VERY VERY expensive to re-engineer in the first place.

Can anyone see where this is going?

WHY can't I do something like that with the Tarsus? I mean, Keep the engine re-fit to a max size of Engine Upgrade 5, as opposed to Engine upgrade 7. (RF numbers). I couldn't put a Rat Motor, (Big Block V-8), in Vinnie without some MAJOR sheetmetal work. BUT I could go as big as a 400 C.I.D. small block with an air scoop notch out in the bonnet to make room for the air cleaner. Then if you worked the heads, you could go to a 402. Change out the cam and. . .

Big BUCKS.

The original was an in-line 151 C.I.D. Aluminium 4 cylinder. (Or was that a 141?) Not bad horse-power for its size and weight, either.

Think along those lines.

With the engine size and weight I had to do more than an engine swap. I had to modify the suspension BIG TIME. I had to do to carry the weight and take up some of the nose heavy slack in handling by putting sway bars and all sorts of stuff into the chasis. You can make the Tarsus into a RAIL just like I did with Vinnie. Just remember that when you have to do any repairs it's gonna cost. Triple what it would have cost for an OEM set-up. The original modding should cost five times what an Engine Upgrade 5 NORMALLY costs.

ANywho, it's just a game, but I can dream, can't I?

Wendy

 

[Unregistered]

Now that I think about it. . . Part 2

You really need to have penalties if you do a mod like that.

Like REQUIRING SHIELD GEN UPGRADE 5 to go with Engine Package 5 and quintoupling the price of that too. AND you CAN'T have anything but the top 3 guns. AND you HAVE to have cargo expansion, and a repair droid, AND a tractor-beam. AND a torpedo or missile launcher AND a full load of torpedos or missiles, afterburners, jumpdrive ALL the options possible and ALL the high-end ones at that. Right down to the Corinthian Leather captain's chair if you can manage to squeeze that in, too. (Yes I know that that was on the Chrystler Cordoba), AND they all cost five times what they normally cost to get, and you have to buy it all in one lump.

You can't do the upgrade until you sell off EVERYTHING on the ship and choose package five. Package five costs FIVE TIMES what it normally does, and it includes The Omni Science tracking system and a full set of maps for EVERYWHERE and EVERY single solitary possible extra.

You have to make the upgrade HURT to do, but be worth it in the end. AND, Like all hot-rods, it has to have regular maintenance. Fly a mission and you MUST repair the engines, armour and shields. When you dock/land you do 20% damage to them. That means that you HAVE to fly damaged if there are no ship dealers on station. Penalty points, you see. AND with the engine upgrade, you get more speed. Make it a cruising speed of 400 and afterburners of 800. Handling characteristics are the same. It may be a hot-rod, but it's still a truck, albeit a fast one.

See what I mean, it ain't exactly cannon, BUT, you can have it, BUT you PAY for it. ALL THE TIME. Just like in Star Wars, Milenium Falcon was fast, but not as fast as some of the fighters, it was strong, but not as strong as some of the fighters, and it had a good -sized cargo bay. It was Faster than any other ship in its class, was better armed than most of them, but it had more under the hood and it had to be constantly kept up. It was a hot-rod and not exactly stock.

Wendy

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I think everyone gets attached to the Tarsus -- but that's part of the game... you have to either give it uo to make winning the game easier, or you have to suffer through the game being more difficult. I know people who've stuck with the Tarsus because they felt exactly the way you do...

But I digress, it's not my mod -- I just wanted to make the obligatory post pointing out that the word is canon (like the bible) and not cannon (like you shoot things out of).

 

[Unregistered]

Cannons for canon.

I think everyone gets attached to the Tarsus -- but that's part of the game... you have to either give it uo to make winning the game easier, or you have to suffer through the game being more difficult. I know people who've stuck with the Tarsus because they felt exactly the way you do...

But I digress, it's not my mod -- I just wanted to make the obligatory post pointing out that the word is canon (like the bible) and not cannon (like you shoot things out of).

Now I KNOW I just answered this, but somehow I clicked something and it's all gone. If this doubles up, please disregard.

Fast fat fingers and a disengaged brain caused my mixup of the word. Thank you for pointing it out. I DO know the difference, my brain had a major case of gass. Thank you for setting me back on the straight and narrow.

My spelling is atrocious without spell-check, and I mix words without editors, though I do try not to make the obvious errors.

As I said before, and can't seem to find it, I agree with you and I disagree with you, all at the same time.

Being a motor-head and gadgeteer of sorts, I LOVE modding things. Cars, electronics, etc. . .so there is an inate need to mod my ships in-game as I get the credits to do it.

Being a romantic at heart, I think it's somewhat romantic to keep the old bird, but to rod her out. Make her hot, show your love for your family and what they left you.

Yet I do see what you mean about making the hard choices. BUT, what about the way stuff changes in game with the dialogue choices you make? That is an RPG at its best. The dream I have of the Tarsus being modded is just that, a dream. Dreams CAN come true if someone sees the value in them. How many people want to beat their clothes on a rock to get them clean? Someone dreamed of being able to do it another EASIER way, said something to a gadgeteer and. . .VIOLA! Washboard and a wash tub. . .Washing Machine with Wringer. . .Maytag Washer/Dryer combo. . .Apartment sized stacks. . .

You're absolutely right it ain't our mod and I know my skills at modding are sorely lacking, but I can dream.

Just thought I'd dream out loud.
My dream would make a Centurion cheaper in the short AND long run, but I would get the chance to have my old bird and continue my love affair with it as a romantic character at heart in the game.

Wendy

 

[MamiyaOtaru]

Being a motor-head and gadgeteer of sorts, I LOVE modding things. Cars, electronics, etc. . .so there is an inate need to mod my ships in-game as I get the credits to do it.

LOL I know what you mean. When my CPU fan in my 3 year old computer started to die, instead of getting a new one I dropped too much cash to watercool it (and watercooled the GPU at the same time). I love that machine

Hot rodding a Tarsus (with the requisite maintenance and upgrade costs) sounds pretty cool. Maybe in WCU

Until then, as I've said before: if you aren't afraid of notepad, you can do some easy "hot rodding" though some might call it cheating.

 

[Unregistered]

Still have it. . .

LOL I know what you mean. When my CPU fan in my 3 year old computer started to die, instead of getting a new one I dropped too much cash to watercool it (and watercooled the GPU at the same time). I love that machine

Hot rodding a Tarsus (with the requisite maintenance and upgrade costs) sounds pretty cool. Maybe in WCU

Maaaan. . .I'm about to spout off some non-canon stuff here. I'm a heathen, the only WCU games I've ever owned were Privateer, RF (Came on the Priv. CD) and Privateer II.

Yeah, I know. . .I still have my first 486. It's an slc50. when I shut it down last it was STILL working.

Until then, as I've said before: if you aren't afraid of notepad, you can do some easy "hot rodding" though some might call it cheating.

How can it be cheating if you really pay out the nose for it? I mean, hot-rods aren't cheating. Unless you build them with stolen parts. They're expensive toys. Their design, manufacture and maintenance costs really keep them from being practicle. They're viable, but costly as heck. Great privateering ships in the truest sense of the words. Remember bootleggers?

But at the same time, it isn't in the game, is it?

<sigh>
<....hangs head

But it would be soooooo cool!

LOL

Let's not go there, it's only a game.

Wendy

Dreamer, I REALLY AM a dreamer. . .
(With apologies to Supertramp)

 

[ilricca]

ORION
The Orion isn't a bad ship: with class-5 generator can shoot with two plasma guns without problems, and with class-5 shields can withstand great punishment, but it is slow and unwieldy...
In short: useful in the anti-capital role, but doomed versus 4 or more Talons...

CAPITAL SHIPS
If someone in interested in the idea "Anti-Fighter Frigate" & "Anti-Capital Frigate" I can design the 2D schematics of these ships, and maybe I can design the specifications (number of gun mounts, turrets, speed and so on), but I cannot build the 3D models, because I've not the right software and I'm not good at those kind of things.
If there is a good and kind 3D modeler...
;

 

[Unregistered]

well, for WCU i think we should open all the upgrades.

just make exceeding the max-limit make upgrades cost more.

like, i dono... 2x the cost or something.

simple enough.

-scheherazade

 

[Wendy]

Physics bricks and unlikely ships.

Thinking about it, the Orion and the Galaxy shouldn't be able to withstand gravitational pulls, given their long-necked "Look" and Tarsus is nothing more than a brick. There we run into the old F4 argument, given sufficient thrust, even a brick will fly. The Tarsus, MY favourite ship is a brick in atmospheric flight. There aren't even wings of any sort to allow any form of stability, other than rocketing in and out ballistically. ANd then it should tumble and twist uncontrolably. Remember, it doesn't have any form of stability other than manoeuvring jets. Only the Centurion, Talon and Stiletto are capable of true atmospheric flight. They're aerodynamic.

Which brings me to the crux of this post.

Any ship that lands on a world, OR a base of any sort that has gravity, Needs to be able to sustain itself in gravity. Therefore, not all ships should be able to land. Therefore, not all ships should be buyable. You NEED to land. Now, which ships CAN sustain themselves in gravity? Atmospheric flight CAN be overcome with thrust, but you need LOTS of it. Since it CAN break the gravity well of a planet, we'll have to assume the Tarsus has it.

I hate myself sometimes.


Wendy

 

[hellcatv]

If we open up upgrades for the WCU, my take is that all hulls will have a max shield and max reactor--but perhaps no limits on the number of speed enhancers and thrust enhancers that they can hold...so for really incredible ammts of money you can put 5 or 6 speed enhancers until you run out of upgrade space (which is now set so high you can't really run out)
this could make for some interesting incentives to earn more money...what do you think?

 

[Wendy]

What do I think?!?!?

If we open up upgrades for the WCU, my take is that all hulls will have a max shield and max reactor--but perhaps no limits on the number of speed enhancers and thrust enhancers that they can hold...so for really incredible ammts of money you can put 5 or 6 speed enhancers until you run out of upgrade space (which is now set so high you can't really run out)
this could make for some interesting incentives to earn more money...what do you think?

I'm a Gear and Motor head with a computer fixation, what do YOU think I think?

Drool, drool, drool....

My lil ole tarsus is gonna SCREAM.

YeeHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wendy
<--screaming off into the sunset damning the letter carriers to the deepest darkest reaches of space cause they didn't bring her new video card yet.

 

[Lynx]

Heavy Corvette: could be something like a civilian Broadsword: roughly same number of cannons and turrets but a lot less missile lauchers, for example.

Assault Frigate: anti-fighter capital ship. Good Vs. other fighters, no good vs. capital ships. Something like the "Assault Frigate" of Homeworld 2, but with less firepower than a Paradigm (after all a destroyer is more powerful than a frigate!!!)

Battle Frigate: anti-capital capital ship. Good Vs. capital ships, no good vs. fighters. Something like the "Ion Cannon Frigate" of Homeworld 2, but with less firepower than a Paradigm (after all a destroyer is more powerful than a frigate!!!)

Suggestions?

That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. Why should civilians suddenly be able to buy such heavy ships? Those ships are dedicated to combat only, which. doesn't. make. sense.
All the civilian ships in Privateer are multi purpose ships indicated by them having cargo space. Even the Centurion has enough cargo space to earn money with cargo runs. Talons, Demons have some cargo space( you can pick up cargo when you blow them up) While the designs mentioned above sound like purely combat ships not to mention it's impossible for them to be bought by private contractors anyway.

Something like a light corvette is somewhat understandable( there have been several indications in the novels that some, and that is "some" in the sense of *not much of them* are used by smugglers; though the are already mostly cast-off designs not used by the military anymore) but heavy corvettes and frigates don't make no friggin' sense not matter how you twist it. And it would require pulling out new ships out of your collective asses that aren't canon.

And for what would you need anti capital ships anyway? How much capital ships are in the Gemini sector? Ten? Twenty? In any case not enough to warrant such a ships existance.

It would make the game unbalanced. Such a ship would cut through most of the ships without problems, thus making the game too easy. Have you though about the game balance already? Some of all this changes might screw up the balance.

 

[ilricca]

That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. Why should civilians suddenly be able to buy such heavy ships? Those ships are dedicated to combat only, which. doesn't. make. sense.
All the civilian ships in Privateer are multi purpose ships indicated by them having cargo space. Even the Centurion has enough cargo space to earn money with cargo runs. Talons, Demons have some cargo space( you can pick up cargo when you blow them up) While the designs mentioned above sound like purely combat ships not to mention it's impossible for them to be bought by private contractors anyway.

Something like a light corvette is somewhat understandable( there have been several indications in the novels that some, and that is "some" in the sense of *not much of them* are used by smugglers; though the are already mostly cast-off designs not used by the military anymore) but heavy corvettes and frigates don't make no friggin' sense not matter how you twist it. And it would require pulling out new ships out of your collective asses that aren't canon.

And for what would you need anti capital ships anyway? How much capital ships are in the Gemini sector? Ten? Twenty? In any case not enough to warrant such a ships existance.

It would make the game unbalanced. Such a ship would cut through most of the ships without problems, thus making the game too easy. Have you though about the game balance already? Some of all this changes might screw up the balance.

I have found MANY cat-killing mission, 800000-900000 credits each...
18 - 20 ships to terminate for each of such mission...
Now I ask you: a corvette or a frigate (thus a ship not powerful like the Paradigm (a ship that in the current version is for sell!!!)) don't make sense?

 

[Lynx]

Tell me why you think that these ships would make sense, where you can get them how to put them into the story. I'm interested.

 

[ilricca]

These ship make sense, and I put them into the story, in the same way I put into the story wings of 20 Talons with plasma cannon.
Nothing more, nothing less.
:
After all, if the Pirates/Retro/Kilrathi attacks in wings of 15 and more, why we shouldn't develop a brand of new ships to deal with this new threat?
"Tell me [...], I'm interested"

 

[Lynx]

So they make sense, huh? Why is it than that I can only think of reasons why they don't make sense?

We haven't seen any of this ships in any WC game nor do they show up in any novel or WC design document. Just why should they start existing now?
First, frigates and Corvettes are military hardware and in now way in hell those ships would get sold to civilians(repeating that just for the n-th time). How many privately owned frigates cruise in the seas nowadays? None, you say it.
The closest thing that comes to those which makes sense woul be some scrounged up freighter, of course you can have civilian battleships and all that if you want to throw continuity and believability out of the window, you know, just those things that made the WC games great.

This ships would completely screw up the canon missions of the game since they are massively more powerful than anything else. The missions would just a shooting match without any challenge.

Of course, the developers can do that but then it wouldn't be a Privateer remake, only some ripoff with WC ships.

 

[Quarto]

Eh, let them be, Lynx. They already said there would be a version which doesn't include any additional ships, buyable or otherwise, and this version would be unaffected by anything Ilricca's suggesting. And as for the other version, do you really care what they do with it? I doubt you'll want to play something which includes buyable Paradigms and Stilettos, even if they don't add any new ships. I know I won't .