Blast on Bali killing over 188

TheFraix

Vice Admiral
I won't say many words.
Bali has long been part of Indonesia who has been apart from the many crises and conflicts tearing that country.
The recent bombing killed over 188 and injured at least 300, both foreigners as well locals.

There are many speculations and theories of who done it, and while some may think it was an act by terrorists, I chose to believe this:

THE BOMBING AND KILLING OF INNOCENT PEOPLE CAN NEVER BE JUSTIFIED BY ANY CAUSE OR REASON.

Never!

Arvin 'TheFraix' Chandra

"If you know the differences between right and wrong, don't choose the wrong thing."
 
Agreed Fraix, The death toll is now over 200, with over 30 of the dead being British.

It has become Austrialiar's sept. 11th

I was watching the news last night, and Bush was talking about the attack, he said that the attack was likely to Bin Ladens' followers, he then said jokely "It's deffeintly Terrorist Attack". God I just want to Deck the TWAT
 
I don't really see how classifying it as a terrorist attack (although... *duh*) would be a joke.
 
No he didn't. You're just searching desperately for reasons to dislike the poor guy when there really are none.
 
George Bush is not too good with words, and last night was no exception. He realized he was stating the blindingly obvious, tried to smoothly correct himself, and failed miserably. He wasn't joking or triviliazing the attack, he's just a terrible public speaker.
 
The bombing cannot be justified...
but killing terrorists and returning violence with violence ain't the answer either.

I've read from Time about some US General proposing Bush to change the military stance to a 'lean forward' policy. In other words, "Show up your chin so you can provoke the bad guy to smack you down, thus giving me a reason to hit back."

To me personally, I see three sides in this War going on. The Terrorists (who are under informed and conditioned to think narrowly), the Guys_who_want_to_kill Terrorists... and the People_who_want_peace.

Remember that Babylon 5 story arc, about the two titan race (The Soldiers of Lights versus the Shadows) fighting each other, and the lesser races caught in between (with the death toll measuring trillions I believe).
In the real world we got Capitalists and Victims_of_Capitalism... with many who become Extreme Radicalists.
But the issue is not about good guys vs bad guys... I still believe the Al-Qaeda are evil by doing violence, but the anti-terrorists have brought many pain and suffering too. Remember the incidents of friendly fires because of mis-intelligence?

I'm not saying that either side is good or bad. I'm just saying that neither of them is right.

-Arvin 'Fraix' Chandra-
 
Originally posted by TheFraix
To me personally, I see three sides in this War going on. The Terrorists (who are under informed and conditioned to think narrowly), the Guys_who_want_to_kill Terrorists... and the People_who_want_peace.
It seems to me that peace is the goal of the folks who want to kill and scatter the terrorists. If they aren't destroyed, peace can never been truly achieved, only lulls in the violence.
Remember that Babylon 5 story arc, about the two titan race (The Soldiers of Lights versus the Shadows) fighting each other, and the lesser races caught in between (with the death toll measuring trillions I believe).
Using Babylon 5 as an example was just about the dumbest thing you could possibly have done. In fact, using any contrived fictional universe to illustrate a point concerning a real one is just foolish, but it's hard to do worse than B5.
In the real world we got Capitalists and Victims_of_Capitalism... with many who become Extreme Radicalists.
Capitalism creates no victims.

Anyway, I can see your real agenda here. This has nothing to do with capitalism, it has everything to do with subduing thugs that abuse human life in the pursuit of power. By using this discussion as a means of criticizing capitalism, you've really pulled the rug right out from any point you might have had previously.

Go preach your anti-capitalist nonsense in another thread, don't try to mask it here.
But the issue is not about good guys vs bad guys...
That sounds like a personal problem, to me.
I still believe the Al-Qaeda are evil by doing violence,
Yet this still isn't a question of good vs. evil to you? What's wrong with you, man?
but the anti-terrorists have brought many pain and suffering too.
Such is the nature of war. We don't have to like it, we just have to accept it
I'm not saying that either side is good or bad. I'm just saying that neither of them is right.
Then you're spineless.

We, the anti-terrorists, are right to do what we must to defend ourselves from unwarranted aggression by thugs who would use their own people as bombs, and who target innocents foremost.

If you can't shed the post-modernist moral poison that contemporary society has injected into you long enough even to declare such terrific examples of bad guys as evil, then you're a lost cause.
 
Originally posted by TheFraix

THE BOMBING AND KILLING OF INNOCENT PEOPLE CAN NEVER BE JUSTIFIED BY ANY CAUSE OR REASON.

Never!

Yes it can be. This wasn't one of those cases, but the killing of innocents can be justified when their deaths will save the lives of more people at a later time...
 
Originally posted by TheFraix
THE BOMBING AND KILLING OF INNOCENT PEOPLE CAN NEVER BE JUSTIFIED BY ANY CAUSE OR REASON.

Survival is a damned good reason to kill. History in hindsight determines who was right and wrong.

"The only ones innocent are those unborn" - Your Buddy Joe Stalin
 
I agree that Bush isn't much of a public speaker...

... but I *don't* see the connection between intelligence and public speaking ability. How many of historys great scientists and inventors and such have been really awful speakers? And how good are *you* at public speaking?
 
Originally posted by TheFraix
Remember that Babylon 5 story arc, about the two titan race (The Soldiers of Lights versus the Shadows) fighting each other, and the lesser races caught in between (with the death toll measuring trillions I believe).

Yeah, and if everyone else in the world tells the US and Al-Qaeda that they're not interested, the two groups will leave the planet.
I don't think so...
The problem with that point of view is that it requires cooperation from both of the groups that are fighting. If the Vorlons had decided to leave at the end of that story arc, but the Shadows had decided to stick around, then Sheridan would have been in a whole lot of trouble.
 
Let me explain capitalism:

People with capita (something like skills or resources) can succeed better than people with less capita.

Here's a catch:
There's the tendency for people who have larger capita (eg: power, large sum of money) to abuse that capita in order to increase their own at the expense of people with lesser capita.
 
I believe the word you meant to use is "capital," since "capita" means something entirely different. It's sort of hard to make any kind of point if you don't use the right words.

And your "catch" seems to highlight a deficiency in people's character, not in capitalism itself. I could beat you to death with a rock, but it's not the rock's fault.
 
Originally posted by TheFraix
Let me explain capitalism:

People with capita (something like skills or resources) can succeed better than people with less capita.

Here's a catch:
There's the tendency for people who have larger capita (eg: power, large sum of money) to abuse that capita in order to increase their own at the expense of people with lesser capita.

WELL DUH... Name a system of government or economics in which the people with a lot try to decrease themselves. That's got to be one of the dumbest arguements I've ever heard against capitalism. The difference is that Capitalism lets everyone try to advance. Communism doesn't, and neither does Socialism. Therefore, greed, a basic human tendancy, is used to motivate everyone and not just an elect few. In capitalism you can make as much you want, depending on how much effort you want to put into it.
 
Communism doesn't, and neither does Socialism. Therefore, greed, a basic human tendancy, is used to motivate everyone and not just an elect few.

Yup... and both of these other systems were noble ideas crippled by the fact that people are inherently greedy. Capitalism at least says "Okay, people are like this... we'll work with that." instead of ignoring basic human nature.
 
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