Blair's change of heart . . .

Viper61

Spaceman
I was just reading through the Prophecy manual (yes I was a bit bored, and because I'm about to sell it when I get Prophecy gold :) ) and was reminded that the Midway class Megacarrier was Blairs baby. On the other hand, in WC4 ( and in the book if I'm not mistaken) in a conversation with Tolwyn, he makes the comment that he is in favor of the smaller "Jeep" carriers over the huge Vesuvius Supercarrier (you could build multiple jeep carriers for the price of one Supercarrier). I know the idea of the Megacarrier was shown to be an exellent idea (having all those fighters and sustainability in the face of the huge amount of bug spacecraft), but can anyone speculate why Blair had such a change of heart in those 10 years?

Also, I just read that the Midway is larger than the Vesuvius. I guess bigger is better :)
 

WildWeasel

Spaceman
Originally posted by Viper61
yes I was a bit bored, and because I'm about to sell it when I get Prophecy gold

Well, just don't sell your Wing Commander Universe Map. The Gold Edition doesn't come with one.
 

Wolfman

Rear Admiral
I remember Blair saying something to that effect in WC4.

Well to speculate, I'd say that Confed may have felt that they didn't need to have lots of "Jeep" carriers, and that carrier like the Midway would be enough to stop would be attackers (it would make me have second thoughts).

And Confed had by now had ten years of peace, since the suicide of Tolwyn.

That could be an answer (I'm sure someone here will tell me otherwise).

Well once more I share my confusion to the world, hope I have helped. :D
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
Originally posted by Viper61
...but can anyone speculate why Blair had such a change of heart in those 10 years?
I'm sure it would be much fewer than 7 years (2680-2673) - it takes several years to design and build a capship.

Originally posted by Viper61
Also, I just read that the Midway is larger than the Vesuvius.
It's longer (1800m vs 1630m), but not as massive as the Vesuvius.

Originally posted by WildWeasel
Well, just don't sell your Wing Commander Universe Map. The Gold Edition doesn't come with one.
If possible, keep the ICIS manual - I think the Prophecy Gold manual is significantly different.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
The Midway class ships, though impressive in Prophecy, aren't on the super-expensive-ultra-carrier level of the Vesuvii...
 

TCSTigersClaw

Greek Special Forces B' Company "Naoussa" 2007-200
What?? Loaf you are saying that the Midway-class is cheaper than the Vesuvious-class? ?:confused:

Oh,thats weird...Midway seems much much better.....
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
The Midway class was never meant to replace the Vesuvius class as Confed's flagship carrier - they were only meant as an economical (ie cheap) way to replace the ageing and obsolete Kilrathi War era capships.
 

Starkey

Avenging Rooster
Originally posted by Wedge009
The Midway class was never meant to replace the Vesuvius class as Confed's flagship carrier - they were only meant as an economical (ie cheap) way to replace the ageing and obsolete Kilrathi War era capships.

I think they also thought of saving money by changing the "regular carrier + destroyer escorts" group for one BIG ship that can defend itself alone.
 

Wildshot

Spaceman
I thought that was the whole point of the Midway. That it was supposed to be a one man show. Isn't that the essence of the conversation Dallas, Zero, and Casey have when Casey makes an ass of himself in front of Blair?
 

Starkey

Avenging Rooster
I made my point based on that scene. I think the Midway was supposed to be self-dependant in PEACETIME - that´s when they built her. As LOAF stated, though, she would have some escorts during a possible war.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Originally posted by Wildshot
I thought that was the whole point of the Midway. That it was supposed to be a one man show. Isn't that the essence of the conversation Dallas, Zero, and Casey have when Casey makes an ass of himself in front of Blair?

During peacetime, it acts as a mobile starbase... so it replaces constructing less useful static bases, I suppose.
 

junior

Spaceman
Originally posted by Starkey
I made my point based on that scene. I think the Midway was supposed to be self-dependant in PEACETIME - that´s when they built her. As LOAF stated, though, she would have some escorts during a possible war.

What makes her self-dependent isn't the fact that she's got a lot of fighters. The Vesuvius class has that. What makes her self-dependent is the fact that she has enough support staff on board to handle most emergencies that get thrown her way. She can arrive in a system, and lay down a full spread of fighters to pretty much single handedly pacify an opposing force. Once she's disarmed the enemy, her on-board marine contingent can board opposing ships and bases. After the enemy resources have been captured, the scientific team on-board the Midway can then begin a thorough analysis of the enemy's equipment and technical capabilities, and the limited production facilities on-board the Midway can begin limited manufacture of odd ball one-shot special equipment that may be required.
We see this in WCP. The Midway is able to single-handedly turn back an alien invasion. The marines on board conduct a few boarding operations in order to gain more information about the Nephilim. Salvaged Nephilim debris is sent to Finley's team, and they evaluate all of it in order to learn more about the equipment the Nephilim uses, and the Nephilim themselves. Finally, when technology that might prove useful is reverse engineered from the Nephilim debris, the Midway is able to manufacture sufficient quantities of "improved" missiles to equip the fighters on-board.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Actually, the Vesuvius had a far larger crew... what's special about Midway is that she carries things like Marines and a sciences department...
 

Viper61

Spaceman
Very interesting comments from everyone. I had no idea the Vesuvius was the more massive of the two (though if you look at the pictures, the Vesuvius is the "heftier" of the 2 ships) though all I had to go on was the information in the CIC ship database and it doesn't tell the length, mass, or fighter complememtn of the Vesuvius. The only info I had to go from is the Midway moves at 80kps and the Vesuvius at 150kps (though in space more massive doesn't mean anything, as long as you have slightly more powerful engines).

I like the idea of the "mobile" starbase that LOAF brought up as an explaination for Blairs change of heart. During Blairs Tour of duty, it became very clear to him that a carrier should be able to (in times of crisis) to hold its own by itself - WC1:SM1, WC2, WC4 - on the Intrepid. I still like the idea of the "jeep" carrier during wartime though. If a lucky shot got through the Midway or vesuvius defense and destroyed the carrier, they just cut off the entire fighter complement of the task force. IF you are using smaller Jeep carriers (about the size of a ranger class ~40 fighters) and this happens you only cut down on a portion of the strike capability (this is assuming that you have more than one carrier in a wartime strike group). But I guess there is a place for everything in a military as large as Confeds. You need the flagships (Vesuvius-class, only a few though) to show the rest of the universe your power, the operational "fleet" carriers (Midway-class, several of these) to project your military power throughout the universe, and the smaller "jeep" carriers (such as Ranger class type carriers) for smaller strike forces and defense roles.
And also if the scientist ever figure out how to control that massive plasma weapon on the Midway, that would move it up there to the Dreadnaught-like abilities of the Confederation class Concodia of old :).

Note: I'm really impressed how fast this discussion took off :)
 

junior

Spaceman
Originally posted by Viper61
I like the idea of the "mobile" starbase that LOAF brought up as an explaination for Blairs change of heart. During Blairs Tour of duty, it became very clear to him that a carrier should be able to (in times of crisis) to hold its own by itself - WC1:SM1, WC2, WC4 - on the Intrepid. I still like the idea of the "jeep" carrier during wartime though. If a lucky shot got through the Midway or vesuvius defense and destroyed the carrier, they just cut off the entire fighter complement of the task force. IF you are using smaller Jeep carriers (about the size of a ranger class ~40 fighters) and this happens you only cut down on a portion of the strike capability (this is assuming that you have more than one carrier in a wartime strike group). But I guess there is a place for everything in a military as large as Confeds. You need the flagships (Vesuvius-class, only a few though) to show the rest of the universe your power, the operational "fleet" carriers (Midway-class, several of these) to project your military power throughout the universe, and the smaller "jeep" carriers (such as Ranger class type carriers) for smaller strike forces and defense roles.

Going with multiple smaller carriers when one large carrier will do the job has its plusses, but they're outweighed by the negatives. The biggest is the simple fact that if you do your job correctly, the carriers will never come under fire. Second is that multiple small carriers are more expensive than a single big carrier. Third is the fact that coordination between multiple ships is a chore during the best of times, and a serious hazard at the worst. Using a single large carrier simplifies all of those so that you can concentrate on winning the war instead of juggling carriers.
Light carriers have their uses, but the centerpoint of a battle group is generally not a good use for them.
 

Lunatic

Spaceman
Hmmm....Sounds like Starfleet, in a way. The ships can still kick ass, but they can also take a good look at what's going on behind the scenes, too.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
"Jeep" carriers are still around circa Prophecy -- the ICIS manual mentions which of the ships were designed to be flown off of Confed's escort carriers...
 
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