Blairs Age

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Um dude, everyone agrees with you like that, whoever wrote this one wanted to put his own foot in the door... I guess that meant killing of the main character and perverting the who damn thing!
 
F4U Corsair said:
Um dude, everyone agrees with you like that, whoever wrote this one wanted to put his own foot in the door... I guess that meant killing of the main character and perverting the who damn thing!
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Considering that the original concept was to look at a new trilogy, introducing a new character only made sense - Blair's getting up there in years, and even if they started this a year or so behind WC4, what would be the point? It'd be just like any OTHER WC game, and they wanted a fresh start and a new story to tell beyond 'Blair Patrols the Border Worlds' or 'Blair fights Pirates'.

Chris Roberts' involvement in WC4 was, IIRC, only as a Director - the story was written by two of the same people who did WC3 (Terry Borst, Frank DePalma). He didn't write the story in that last game, and Adam Foshko (WCP's director) also produced WC3 and WC4 with Chris Roberts, and was also the producer for the Academy cartoon - it's not like he was a new hand to WC.

Feth's sake, Blair was due to retire anyways - if we were keeping even just the date, 2681 means that Blair's already 48, two years past the age Paladin 'retired' at (he retired just before SM2, and he was 45-46 at the time). Blair was going to have to go, no matter what - and even if this was ten years earlier, Blair's about ready to retire given that a) it's peacetime again, and b) he's already past his 'prime' as a front-line pilot and is about ready to go into training or to take his twenty years and head out into the sunset.

So not everyone agrees with you, or these rather asinine posts. Yes, enthusiasm is good... but as people keep pointing out, the thread's either been beaten to death before and you've not contributed anything new, or else you have a simple versus line which does nothing but annoy old bastards like yours truly.
 
Haesslich said:
Considering that the original concept was to look at a new trilogy, introducing a new character only made sense - Blair's getting up there in years, and even if they started this a year or so behind WC4, what would be the point? It'd be just like any OTHER WC game, and they wanted a fresh start and a new story to tell beyond 'Blair Patrols the Border Worlds' or 'Blair fights Pirates'.

Chris Roberts' involvement in WC4 was, IIRC, only as a Director - the story was written by two of the same people who did WC3 (Terry Borst, Frank DePalma). He didn't write the story in that last game, and Adam Foshko (WCP's director) also produced WC3 and WC4 with Chris Roberts, and was also the producer for the Academy cartoon - it's not like he was a new hand to WC.

Feth's sake, Blair was due to retire anyways - if we were keeping even just the date, 2681 means that Blair's already 48, two years past the age Paladin 'retired' at (he retired just before SM2, and he was 45-46 at the time). Blair was going to have to go, no matter what - and even if this was ten years earlier, Blair's about ready to retire given that a) it's peacetime again, and b) he's already past his 'prime' as a front-line pilot and is about ready to go into training or to take his twenty years and head out into the sunset.

So not everyone agrees with you, or these rather asinine posts. Yes, enthusiasm is good... but as people keep pointing out, the thread's either been beaten to death before and you've not contributed anything new, or else you have a simple versus line which does nothing but annoy old bastards like yours truly.
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What the heck does that have to do w/ this? Yea ok, I get it no more VS thread ok fine, DOES THIS LOOK LIKE A VERSE THREAD TO YOU? And sorry not everyone has been around as long as u to know all that. Anyway, ok yeah Blair is getting on in years, but hes seems to me as the guy whod retire, not like it, and keep coming back. I mean you cant get an old Pilot down. Maybe he needed to go, but still going that way... it just didnt seem right, I do like the plot twist w/ the Iceman's son, being the Iceman was my favorite wingman and all. But what about Hawk? He didnt have to go at that point.
 
Did Borst and DePalma also write Prophecy's story? I can hardly imagine that, since I loved the storylines of WC III and IV, whereas the one of Prophecy...well, you know my opinion ;) And I'm not against letting Blair disappear from WC, although to me he will always BE Wing Commander...but why did they have to make a grumpy old arrogant commodore(?) out of him and then let him eaten by a bug (in a horribly done movie scene, Blair pretending to tremble and fall in front of that greenscreen just looks ridiculous!). I mean, if he had stayed a flight instructor, become a senator, admiral or whatever or if he had died a pilot's death in his cockpit, okay, that would habe been fine for me, but not the way Propecy did, no sir!
 
You know, corsair, you are very good on making the other people in the foruns hate you. Probably got a PhD on being a stupid ass jerk. Keep Up the good work, and sooner or later you'll do something stupid enough to get you banned.

Back to the topic, Yeah, blair had to go. After WC4, it would be pretty hard to make the universe go to any interesting direction while keeping blair on the roster. It is better to go on a blaze of glory than burying Maverick on an office.

Of course, it would be better if he died on a cockpit, but I think they tried to keep a door opened for a sequel. Unfortunately, as there was no sequel to make him return, he IS officialy dead. There was even a funeral mentioned in SO.

On another note, the a.g.w-c newsgroup was filled with insane theories about Blair becoming a Bug general, or god, or emperor, and stuff like that. They were funny... Nah, they were not.
 
Edfilho said:
You know, corsair, you are very good on making the other people in the foruns hate you. Probably got a PhD on being a stupid ass jerk. Keep Up the good work, and sooner or later you'll do something stupid enough to get you banned.

Back to the topic, Yeah, blair had to go. After WC4, it would be pretty hard to make the universe go to any interesting direction while keeping blair on the roster. It is better to go on a blaze of glory than burying Maverick on an office.

Of course, it would be better if he died on a cockpit, but I think they tried to keep a door opened for a sequel. Unfortunately, as there was no sequel to make him return, he IS officialy dead. There was even a funeral mentioned in SO.

On another note, the a.g.w-c newsgroup was filled with insane theories about Blair becoming a Bug general, or god, or emperor, and stuff like that. They were funny... Nah, they were not.
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Oh plz, like I really CARE if I piss off someone like you, it doesnt matter me, never has never will, Im not breaking any rules, Ive made so mistakes here, so what, get over it, grow up, move on.

Ugh... My only point was that it could have been a bit better of a story line, thats all, nothing offensive, nothing more, nothing less.
 
How about caring if you piss off someone like me?

Not yet, but you seem to be working on it, in the posts from the last day or two.

(No, Ed's not exactly being angelic, either, so don't try to paint this as an "old vs new" favoritism issue. He's just not being quite as obvious about it.)
 
F4U Corsair said:
What the heck does that have to do w/ this? Yea ok, I get it no more VS thread ok fine, DOES THIS LOOK LIKE A VERSE THREAD TO YOU? And sorry not everyone has been around as long as u to know all that. Anyway, ok yeah Blair is getting on in years, but hes seems to me as the guy whod retire, not like it, and keep coming back. I mean you cant get an old Pilot down. Maybe he needed to go, but still going that way... it just didnt seem right, I do like the plot twist w/ the Iceman's son, being the Iceman was my favorite wingman and all. But what about Hawk? He didnt have to go at that point.
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Very mature attitude - you would do Spacebattles proud.

Note: this is the damned military - and when it comes to pilots, they appear to strictly enforce age limits and physical requirements. When you get too old, you either get retired or promoted, or so it seems - Paladin has the distinction of having been both 'retired' AND promoted, while Halcyon was also apparently promoted out of the cockpit (if one can judge by his comments in the official WC1/2 strategy guide about flying a desk). Blair also seems to have accepted a promotion out of the cockpit, at least at the end of WC4 (moving into a trainer role, then into the Navy), though circumstances put him back in the cockpit. Maniac's almost Blair's age, though he's probably due for retirement soon (or promotion), and Hawk was also apparently several years younger than Blair, to judge by the WC4N description.

Beyond that, there were the story requirements - they needed a fresh start, and Lance Casey was it. The fact that he was the Iceman's son was a nice nod to continuity, and a way to pass the torch. To judge by how Blair got shot down and captured, I think his famed reflexes WERE finally slowing down.
 
Haesslich said:
Note: this is the damned military - and when it comes to pilots, they appear to strictly enforce age limits and physical requirements. When you get too old, you either get retired or promoted, or so it seems - Paladin has the distinction of having been both 'retired' AND promoted, while Halcyon was also apparently promoted out of the cockpit (if one can judge by his comments in the official WC1/2 strategy guide about flying a desk). Blair also seems to have accepted a promotion out of the cockpit, at least at the end of WC4 (moving into a trainer role, then into the Navy), though circumstances put him back in the cockpit. Maniac's almost Blair's age, though he's probably due for retirement soon (or promotion), and Hawk was also apparently several years younger than Blair, to judge by the WC4N description.

Beyond that, there were the story requirements - they needed a fresh start, and Lance Casey was it. The fact that he was the Iceman's son was a nice nod to continuity, and a way to pass the torch. To judge by how Blair got shot down and captured, I think his famed reflexes WERE finally slowing down.
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Hmmm, now, daring to look over the fence to other Sci-fi sagas, I come again to the point where I wonder what will happen with retirement age in the future.

Today most of the western cultures come to the conclusion that 65 as retirement age may be a bit too soon - generally higher life expectancy, better medical treatment possibilities, less strenuous physical work leads to people being able to stay at work longer. (Not to mention they'll have to anyway, to get enough money to live in retirement.)

But seriously (if at all possible): We've seen spaceship crews clinging to their banana-shaped control consoles for longer than any soldier nowadays would even dream of, and there are also novels and movies full of time-resistant personell whose failure to age is explained by hanging around cosmic wormholes and temporal anomalies all the time.
Keeping the gamer's/customer's interest is the issue here - continue with the old hero as long as the audience wants to see him/her.

From that side, I wouldn't have seen a problem with Blair turning up again - halfways expecting him, after having "been" him form the beginning on. But game companies have to think of the younger folks that step into the market, so it was decided to introduce a new hero, and to retire the old one in a way that would make it understandable to the "old" gamers.

Concerning story and concept, I think that they made two mistakes here: One is the cause of Blair's death - enigmatic to the point of unbelievable, and not at all satisfying to longtime gamers (taking in the piece of missing video, even Hobbes' death is more credible).
And number two is the coice of the new hero: All too green, too gulible, too "Yes, sir". If I may again look over the fence at a certain series that evolves around capships, it has been shown as good practice to model the next generation of heroes after the characters of the old ones. I remember Blair as reflective on his actions, careful in his words, passionate without blowing his cover, a loner.

But I'm rambling. Point: It wasn't necessary to kill Blair - he could have moved into a Paladin-like role outside of direct interaction with gameplay, and the story would have benefitted from that. For new gamers, a change of the player character was needed, I concurr - but introducing Casey didn't do it. Maybe only not for me.

And, as an afterthought: Replacing Maniac didn't work either - even a complete noob to the series understood at once the comic relief side of his character, made all the more credible by his age and lack of rank. He wouldn't have liked a hero's death or a cozy desk - just as little as he would have like to have his surname spelt wrong ;).
 
criticalmass said:
But I'm rambling. Point: It wasn't necessary to kill Blair - he could have moved into a Paladin-like role outside of direct interaction with gameplay, and the story would have benefitted from that. For new gamers, a change of the player character was needed, I concurr - but introducing Casey didn't do it. Maybe only not for me.

And, as an afterthought: Replacing Maniac didn't work either - even a complete noob to the series understood at once the comic relief side of his character, made all the more credible by his age and lack of rank. He wouldn't have liked a hero's death or a cozy desk - just as little as he would have like to have his surname spelt wrong ;).
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BTW... I didnt do ne thing to deserve that, I dont like being yelled at for voicing an opinion... but w/e. In any case, this is an idea I agree with, Blair didnt have to die, Casey taking over as the main Pilot, thats fine, its a cool twist in the story... as for maniac being replaced? Who was he replaced with? Maestro?
 
What's done is done. Unfortunately famous people don't always die preferable deaths. It's the reality of life.

Wing Commander's story was always about the realities of war and there are often casualties. Do you think Iceman died a heroic death? I personally don't think so. It was quite a humiliating way for a Kilrathi War ace to meet his end. If everyone died in a heroic fashion then the story as a whole would be less credible.
 
Very true... I gues if you look at it that way... still I mean whos left from the original game? Paldin (who doesnt even make an appearance) and Maniac! A man who shouldve been kill probably 100 times.
 
Actually I thought Maestro was less annoying and more likeable then Maniac...purely my own humble opinion. But he was an agreeable sidekick. I also felt Wing Commander Prophecy was a pretty good game in its own right. I'm certainly glad that we have it since it's the most up to date Wing Commander space sim we have and has provided us with limited opportunities to create mods suchas Unknown Enemy and the upcoming Standoff. The "plot" maybe wasn't the same caliber as the prior games but it was much better than anything else on the market (or that followed thereafter ala Freespace, Tachyon etc). The decision to introduce a new main character and situation plot made good business sense afterall you can only do so much with one guy before he would have earned the rank of "Grand Marshall of all Confederation forces and commander in chief hereunto the day he dies..." So it was a good idea to bring in the Iceman's son, a young rookie with whom you have to prove your mettle yet once again. The new alien bugs? Well, I can only say...cheesy. I'd rather still be out there killing Kilrathi but I understood their reasoning behind it.
 
Hey. I didn't want to turn this into a "Prophecy sucks" thread. The quality of the story is different strokes for different folks, and as the legend goes there are even people who liked Tachyon.

If we're still talking about narrative continuity, then the one thing I do not get (and maybe it's time for Loaf to pick up with some background information) is why to promote the Prophecy storyline with SO in 1998, and then do the starwarsy time-backflop thing in the movie. Was there some market reseach involved, e.g. comparing the estimated user base vs. the people who downloaded the SO episodes?

But before I go on romanticizing about a movie with Mark Hamill as Blair (couldn't be all that much more expensive then Freddie Prinze), I have the uncertain tingly feeling that this has been discussed before a hundred times. Somebody here to provide a link to the thread?
 
I really Like Maestro, Zero and Stilleto. Great characters (for a game), each one with different aspects and motivations - especially if you have the official guide.

I didn't like Casey Much though. Annoying. weak. He could be brasher, like the son of a dead hero. He gave me impression he wanted to go home to his mommy.
 
or maybe he felt that he couldn't possibly hope to fill his father's shoes even though he was kind of expected to
 
Edfilho said:
I didn't like Casey Much though. Annoying. weak. He could be brasher, like the son of a dead hero. He gave me impression he wanted to go home to his mommy.
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Yeah, I expected him to start crying bacause the nephilim didnt like him.
 
At the begining of the game he was the guy who had the most demerits but the best piloting record at the Academy and didnt care about getting into trouble... but as the story went on... eh... well lets just say that sometimes being a flat character isnt necessarily a bad thing.
 
Nomad Terror said:
or maybe he felt that he couldn't possibly hope to fill his father's shoes even though he was kind of expected to
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Hey, if this guy will be my alter-ego in a game, I expect him to at least a teeny bit heroic... Of course, there are games where whiners and losers are cool and funny... But not in Wing Commander. Even burrows was cool.
 
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