Blair and Maniac

Benjamin

Rear Admiral
Ok, I'm sorry if this has been raised b4 but, were Blair and Marshall really at the acadmy together?(I'm actually asking, not stirring up issues about WC canon) the Movie, Prophecy manual and the animated TV show all seem to suggest that they were but in the beginning of WC1 Maniac introduces himself to Blair, suggesting that they wern't...

again I'm sorry if this has come up b4, if it has then just ignore me, i don't mind...
 
eh, everyone introduces themselves to you in WC1. It's just a storytelling technique so you know who everyone is. Blair and Maniac going to the academy together is in so many sources that it's somewhat hard to refute.
 
I suppose, still, an opening cutscene showing Blair and maniac arriving at the claw like the bit in WC movie would have been a better storytellin technique, but I'm sure Chris Roberts didn't think it would have mattered at the time...
 
Originally posted by Benjamin
I suppose, still, an opening cutscene showing Blair and maniac arriving at the claw like the bit in WC movie would have been a better storytellin technique, but I'm sure Chris Roberts didn't think it would have mattered at the time...

That's basically it. When you're making a computer game in 1990 you don't expect it to ever become a hugely sucessful series with large numbers of licensed products.
 
If you absolutely wanted to explain Maniac introducing himself in the beginning of WC1, LOAF once posted that it could be interpreted as Maniac sarcastically teasing Blair. IMHO that's really pushing it :), I personally agree more with the idea TC and Benjamin expressed.
 
That explanation only makes sense in the context of Blair's callsign changing several times (in Pilgrim Stars/Pilgrim Truth).

In actuality they simply hadn't created a relationship between anyone in the game... but it *was* created as soon as the WC1/2 Guide came out, and it was followed consistently after that.
 
The weirdest thing about the Blair/Maniac thing is that Maniac was on the Tiger's Claw for alittle while before Blair in WC1...All of the other pilots already knew and disliked him by the time the game starts.

So Blair and Maniac finished off the Academy on the Tiger's Claw. They were then reassigned to the "Tiger Claw" for a short time, right out of the Academy. During this time Angel gets demoted and everyone forgets that Paladin is a Commodore, and they are reassigned to the Tiger's Claw again, where Bossman has come back to life.....
 
Originally posted by Ladiesman^
The weirdest thing about the Blair/Maniac thing is that Maniac was on the Tiger's Claw for alittle while before Blair in WC1...All of the other pilots already knew and disliked him by the time the game starts.

So Blair and Maniac finished off the Academy on the Tiger's Claw. They were then reassigned to the "Tiger Claw" for a short time, right out of the Academy. During this time Angel gets demoted and everyone forgets that Paladin is a Commodore, and they are reassigned to the Tiger's Claw again, where Bossman has come back to life.....

OK... WCA, the TV show, takes place *during* the game, except for the first episode, which is right before the movie. Angel gets demoted because she didn't follow orders to go through the jump point with Blair, and instead disobeyed orders to save the Claw while risking everyone on Earth. Paladin's rank of Commodore was known only to those on the flight where he revealed it, and selected few of the command staff. It makes a suprising amount of sense that a Counter-intel officer would be assigned to a carrier that ends up being destroyed by a traitor. Bossman wasn't dead, he either managed to eject to a planet or was captured and then repatriated. The letter to his family fits in with the reoccuring theme we see throughout the series. People don't like to be told that their family has been captured or slaughtered by the kilrathi, they want to think it was a quick clean death.
 
I think that no matter what the series, you can't avoid some problems, like in a Star Wars book by McDowell, it says that the Lusankya was scrapped, while acording to Stackpole, the SSD was turned operational.
 
you guys are reading the wrong book. i played Wing Commander back in 91 with an Amiga. (greatest computer ever, unfortunitly wingcommander badly made for it...cept music) anyways, the manual was not an amiga only manual it was Pc. it acted as a magazine for the Tiger's (ya TIGERS NOT TIGER EH) claw. it was called Claw Marks. nowhere in the manual did it mention maniac and your character (Shot for me) going to the academy. it does have a profile on maniac and others though. maniac had just been assigned, he wasent even from earth. Blair did not start developing any kind of a friendship with maniac till Wing4 and even then he still basicly hated him. i think you guys are reading the Kilrathi Saga manual (witch i have also) witch does say they went to the academy together, but that was an add in for the Kilrathi Saga manual. the movie doesent fit in with the Wing Commander Universe really. they skiped all over with it, personaly putting the Pilgrim thing was the worst idea ever. paladin is a major! angel a captain. Tolwin did not apear till wing 2. angel and blair wernt items till wing 2. and those ships looked nothing like what they did in the origanl (the game ships actualy look better!) and the all british actor thing did not bold well for an american made game. i think the movie was horribly done and was Roberts trying to skip all over the place to tell a much to large story. i follow the games as the number one resourse for information, the books the second, and the movie doesent deserve to be mentioned. (though i do watch it from time to time) just because its WingCommander related though. (sniff, to replace Mark Hammil such a great actor with that horrible Prince Jr Agh) anyways, i just hate it when people screw up the orignal greats. orignaly i heard the movie was gonna be with most of the cast of Wing4, now that, would have made an excellent movie. those games had better star power then the movie did!

LONG LIVE BLAIR!!! (you think they could bring him back threw either dreams or something??? hell, shatner wrote a whole book about how the borg brung him back (i will read that one day):( and i really do hope maniac dies by friendly fire whenever he does die, it would mean so much to the series in retro spect.
 
heh... I tend to think of the WC movie in the same way I think of the X-Men movie and the Resident Evil movie: compared to the series that these movies are based on, the movies themselves are of their own continuum, and as such, do not count officially into the series itself.

Besides if it did, then that means Blair and Maniac were friends before getting on the Tiger's Claw, and then met for the FIRST time, and ALSO met Paladin for the first time. :p

Anyway, those are my 2 cents.
 
Originally posted by Shot
you guys are reading the wrong book.
(...)

I'll leave the matter of how the movie fits into the games to the people who are able and willing to explain it.

That Maniac and Blair were together at the academy (and more friendly rivals than enemies) can be assumed pretty safely IMHO. Tue that Claw Mark's or WC1 doesn't simulate that, but all the other products do it pretty well, especially the novels (WC3N explains very well why Maniac and Blair are so hard to each other in WC3).
And Tolwyn appears already on the SM2 package.
 
Tolwin was in SM2 for wing 1? i dont recall that, i know for a fact he wasent there there. like Jazz and Doomsday were, but maybe they did refrence him i dont know, but ill take your word for it till i play it over for the zillionth time. (i go threw em all cronilocialy, now im on 5)

anyways, i think Maniac is a great character to the series and all and am well aware of all the refrencses of there past. just saying that "orignaly" it wasent there, and you can write all the fill in's you want but i personaly like the orignal scripts to things. having said that i do apreciate expecialy in such a vast universe such as wing commander the added character depth they do put in. and thought it fitting that eventualy in Wing Commander 4 they do develope more of a Friendship there. but i was uncomfortable with them being friends right away in the movie. the series has taken alot of turns. orignaly blair was very modest saying things like spirit helped me out alot in the mission and stuff. and a total personality shift in wing 2 cause then hes like i knew i was the best pilot for the job. (im guessing it came at the end of wing 1 when he says to hunter i guese it was pretty empressive huh?) things like that i just excepted and it turns out most of those "glitches" actualy improved the story, its the greatest series ever in my opinion, just pointing out the little things;) in order to enjoy anything you cant be caught up in too much detail, you have to suspend disbelieve, but when you see those departers you cant help but say hey, thats wrong! lol. and ive read some of the posts on how the movie can fit in to the games, frankly ive totaly dismissed them all because honestly i dont want the movie to fit into the games, it was just so badly done in my opinon i dont want to think about all that crap and ruin the gamming experence. frankly i dont believe you can ever truly fit that movie into the wing commander universe cause the most dirrect reason, Angel and Blair wernt items till Wing2 (course i dont know what the "depth" fillers will say about dates and stuff in defending its place but the Wing Commander movie, i just hate hating it. because id love to love it, and ill watch it, but its one of those movies you watch thinking, no one else would like this. while something like the X-Files movie you could get others to watch it and theyd like it. you can get people to play Wing Commander 3 and theyd like it, but the Wing Movie EH! the Game series filled in Depth so great because they explaned it throughout slowly and it made sense, and the those little thing you could suspend disbeliefe on and forget about the maniac things and stuff. but the movie just asked to suspend way too much disbeliefe and tell me if im wrong here but if you need all these people on message boards to explain and defend how the movie fits in with all these persice dates and such, then its already not a good movie. now Contact, that was a book that spaned many years, but the movie justfied the book well i think... great compliment to it, The Wing Commander movie i dont believe will compliment the series in the end.

sorry, guese that was a little more the just 2 cents huh?
 
but again, first impressions mean things sometimes. like maniac in wing 1... like toylwin in 2. ive always looked at him as a bad guy jerk. even though in the books they look at him as more of a good guy. but hey, IT WAS A STEALTH FIGHTER MAN!!! hehe, it just gets ingraned in your head that this guy is a basterd. so when i was reading what was it? (book where they take take the ship undercover to Kilrah and stuff) anyways, when i was reading that book and Toylwin was in it, i read it with such hatrid (just thinking he was gonna do something bad). so that kindof stuff matters, and it doesent. i think the books are a great compliment to the game and loved them. even though im ingraned with those first impressons of Toylwin being a "bad guy" you can suspend it all and enjoy the books. just like i loved all the other games (i got em ranked as Wing3 the best overal game, wing 4 the best dramatic movie wise game, wing 5 best gameplay game, after that its hard, because i love wing 1 and 2 and the add ons but i can only rank them as this one is best at this and that one is best at that cause if you rank them like 1,2,3, and stuff then it comes off sounding like some of em suck, when they were all great. but the wing commander movie just doesent deserve anything.

any Queen fans out there? i know there are some british people on the board... personaly i think HotSpace was an alright album... evryone and i do mean evryone disigreese.. they say it was there worse album. but i rank them like i do WingCommander in they were all great, just some things were diffrent, but i do believe Hot Space can at least go in there as a good musical thing they did if you actualy lisen to it. now the Wing Movie, may be like HotSpace in if you actualy study you might get into it, but for music all you have to do is lisen, for a movie you have to watch,lisen, and in Wing Commander case, to heavy online research... witch i think killed it for so many of us... i like that Hot Space album, its not my favorite, but it deserves to be mentioned, however most people dont agree, and on the wing issue id have to be with most people, theres just way to much work envoled in liking that movie. (sorry, looking back i couldve made a better anoligy but what the hell Queens my favorite band might as well say something about em)
 
Tolwin was in SM2 for wing 1? i dont recall that, i know for a fact he wasent there there. like Jazz and Doomsday were, but maybe they did refrence him i dont know, but ill take your word for it till i play it over for the zillionth time. (i go threw em all cronilocialy, now im on 5)

He was *mentioned* in SM2 -- the 'letter' on the box telling you your orders is from him. Tolwyn is also mentioned a number of times in the Super Wing Commander version of Wing 1...

and a total personality shift in wing 2 cause then hes like i knew i was the best pilot for the job. (im guessing it came at the end of wing 1 when he says to hunter i guese it was pretty empressive huh?)

Ehh... I can't imagine any situation where that line actually is bragging (Hah! Angel! I'm better than the other three backwater patrol pilots!). It's pretty clearly a joke...

frankly i dont believe you can ever truly fit that movie into the wing commander universe cause the most dirrect reason, Angel and Blair wernt items till Wing2 (course i dont know what the "depth" fillers will say about dates and stuff in defending its place but the Wing Commander movie, i just hate hating it.

Ehh, free your mind -- they weren't an item in WC1... *unless they were*!

but the movie just asked to suspend way too much disbeliefe and tell me if im wrong here but if you need all these people on message boards to explain and defend how the movie fits in with all these persice dates and such, then its already not a good movie.

Video games are such a niche market compared to a TV product -- the industry just doesn't work that way...
 
yeah it is clearly a joke, but a joke made by a cockyer blair. he said things like that a number of times in Wing2 and 3 and sometimes the reply was same old blair (ect)...while the blair of Wing1 would never have said it. (course he is the best so what am i complaning about?)
 
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