Annuntio vobis gaudium magnum: Habemus Papam

Yep, the church bells started ringing just as arrived home from work. Quite a surprise for it to happen this quickly, but certainly a welcome one. I was really hoping it would be him.


Oh, and there's nothing off-topic about it, this is the off-topic forum ;).
 
Shit, Ratzinger. :mad: I wanted Hummes.

Ratzinger is gonna empty our Churches even more and divide the religions and nations. Conservative Cardinals. Humf. :(
 
all german teenagers had to join that. But he and his family were anti-nazi (or so they say) and he deserted the German Army as soon as he could.

Ratzinger is simply the continuation of JPII. I wish Hummes got elected, considering he is brazillian, ehehe.
 
Edfilho said:
Ratzinger is simply the continuation of JPII. I wish Hummes got elected, considering he is brazillian, ehehe.
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Hey, one of the top 20 papabile, Marc Ouellet, comes from a village 10 km from my house, and he's the uncle of my wife's friend :p
 
PopsiclePete said:
Shit, Ratzinger. :mad: I wanted Hummes.

Ratzinger is gonna empty our Churches even more and divide the religions and nations. Conservative Cardinals. Humf. :(
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I'm not a Catholic, but IMO, far better to have a conservative pope than a liberal pope. But hey, that's just my opinion. I think John Paul did rather good job. (Understatement, eh?)

So what if this guy was Hitler youth? In Germany in those days, you had no choice. If he deserted when he had the chance, bully for him. :cool:

Quarto, how 'bout the EU constitution? Doesn't seem to be doing so well in the polls right now. :D
 
Porthos said:
Quarto, how 'bout the EU constitution? Doesn't seem to be doing so well in the polls right now. :D
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Yeah. It's only temporary, unfortunately - just watch what happens when the French government starts pouring cash into the 'yes' campaign :(.

Still, there's more hope than a few months ago, and the result of the Papal election certainly makes me feel a little easier about the future ;).



As for the question of why it's good to have a conservative Pope, here's a very quick answer:

What possible urge could I have to follow the Church's teachings, if the Church was to make concessions to the liberals? The fact that it would be willing to do so once means it might do it again. Once you start out in that direction, there will always be somebody else demanding that the Church adjust its teachings to match his particular point of view. This quickly turns into a downward slide, where more and more changes are made that deform the nature of the Church. Next thing you know, you don't even need a Pope, because you've made yourself Pope. Only then, instead of one strong, united Church, you have 1.2 billion one-man churches that anybody can squash. Look at the Protestant movement - why wasn't Martin Luther able to keep the whole thing united? Why is it that we've got more Protestant-derived churches today than anybody even cares to count? And why is it that, compared to the Roman Catholic Church, none of them have any influence whatsoever?
 
As a Catholic myself, I don't think it would be a good idea to give into the desire of the liberals, 'cause often its better to maintain an age old tradition than strike it down on a whim. While there are always issues, I just don't see an immediate need to change according the whims of a single group. Change should come when necessary and when a majority along with the hirearchy feels its necessary.
 
Why is it that we've got more Protestant-derived churches today than anybody even cares to count?
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Maybe because God’s a relativist?:)

And why is it that, compared to the Roman Catholic Church, none of them have any influence whatsoever?
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Hey, when it comes to the world of fashion, color is everything, right? (I mean, I know you can’t possibly be talking about history, politics, or culture in general.)

For myself (for what it’s worth, apparently being a hopelessly non-influential, non-Catholic), I wish the new Pope well.
 
Quarto said:
What possible urge could I have to follow the Church's teachings, if the Church was to make concessions to the liberals? The fact that it would be willing to do so once means it might do it again. Once you start out in that direction, there will always be somebody else demanding that the Church adjust its teachings to match his particular point of view. This quickly turns into a downward slide, where more and more changes are made that deform the nature of the Church. Next thing you know, you don't even need a Pope, because you've made yourself Pope. Only then, instead of one strong, united Church, you have 1.2 billion one-man churches that anybody can squash. Look at the Protestant movement - why wasn't Martin Luther able to keep the whole thing united? Why is it that we've got more Protestant-derived churches today than anybody even cares to count? And why is it that, compared to the Roman Catholic Church, none of them have any influence whatsoever?
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"Things fall apart; the center cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood dimm'd tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity." --Yates

From my view, as a protestant (Sola scriptura, sola fida), the Catholic church was impure. The men that fled it to Holland and eventually England were eventually persecuted by the Anglican (practically the catholic church) church, and then made their way to the New World. One thing led to 25 others, and here we all are.

Anyhow, men started a couple of highly conservative denominations. Those tended to hold very well to the ideal of scriptures only, and salvation by faith alone. Gradually, over hundreds of years, they became more and more liberal. Then, new churches arose that followed the conservative ideals. And now, here we are, with over 200 flavors of Baptist churches, just to name one sect.

On one hand, there are churches out there that believe in the conservative tennants, and will proudly say so. On the other hand, there are churches out there that believe in nothing at all, and will proudly say so. (He who stands for nothing falls for anything . . . )

Forutantely, we've not yet had mere anarchy yet, and I don't think it'll be neccessary for Confed to get involved. :p
 
Quarto said:
Look at the Protestant movement - why wasn't Martin Luther able to keep the whole thing united? Why is it that we've got more Protestant-derived churches today than anybody even cares to count? And why is it that, compared to the Roman Catholic Church, none of them have any influence whatsoever?
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This deserves it's own thread. :p

Luther wasn't able to keep the Refromation united because he didn't seek to replace the pope with himself. All he wanted to do was to reform the church. You know, stop selling indulgences, have a Bible that the people could read. (i.e., not in latin). And a few other things Luther wanted was to allow priests to marry, and the rash belief that scripture should be the final authority on an issue, because it does not change over time, unlike popes and councils, who have often disagreed with each other over time.

While Luther was attempting to reform the church, hence the term, Reformation, others were being tortured and killed by the church. Their crime? Producing an accurate translation of the Bible from the greek and hebrew texts to English and German texts so that the common people could read it for themselves.

And as for influence, I'd say that the protestants that fled to America to escape Anglican and Catholic persecution were kinda influential, as was the founding of this country by protestants, some of the founders being protestant ordained ministers.

Oh well. Back to work. :eek:
 
angry.jpg
 
AD said:
I'm sure a lot of Irish don't agree
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True.

Howver, to the Anabaptists, Hussites, Lutherans, etc., they may as well have been the same. Neither allowed church meetings, and if they caught you having one, off to jail -or worse- you go. Worse yet, get caught with a Bible in any language, even Latin. Wouldn't want the little people to go getting any ideas, now would we?

"The Orange and the Green"
Chorus: Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green.


My father was an Ulster man, proud Protestant was he.
My mother was a Catholic girl, from county Cork was she.
They were married in two churches, lived happily enough,
Until the day that I was born and things got rather tough.

(Chorus)

Baptized by Father Riley, I was rushed away by car,
To be made a little Orangeman, my father's shining star.
I was christened "David Anthony," but still, inspite of that,
To me father, I was William, while my mother called me Pat.

(Chorus)

With Mother every Sunday, to Mass I'd proudly stroll.
Then after that, the Orange lodge would try to save my soul.
For both sides tried to claim me, but i was smart because
I'd play the flute or play the harp, depending where I was.

(Chorus)

Now when I'd sing those rebel songs, much to me mother's joy,
Me father would jump up and say, "Look here would you me boy.
That's quite enough of that lot", he'd then toss me a coin
And he'd have me sing the Orange Flute or the Heros of The Boyne

(Chorus)

One day me Ma's relations came round to visit me.
Just as my father's kinfolk were all sitting down to tea.
We tried to smooth things over, but they all began to fight.
And me, being strictly neutral, I bashed everyone in sight.

(Chorus)

My parents never could agree about my type of school.
My learning was all done at home, that's why I'm such a fool.
They've both passed on, God rest 'em, but left me caught between
That awful color problem of the Orange and the Green.

Hillarious Irish song.To the tune of "Rising of the moon".
 
Not being Catholic (nor Protestant, at that) myself, I just want to wish the Catholic Church and its members (especially those here at the CIC) all the best with their new Pope.

I'm not here to discuss religious history or ideology, though (And I'm going to duck out of this thread before it gets too heated!). I just hope that the discussion here can be kept civil and respectful, even though people have strongly rooted reasons for believing that the other party is in some sort of error.

Whatever the history of the Catholic Church, and whatever the troubles it may be in presently, it is also a force for a lot of good in the world at this time. Although I am not Catholic, I appreciate the humanitarian things that the Catholic Church does, and I hope they will continue to reach out to try to relieve poverty and pain wherever they may be found.
 
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