Howard Day
Random art guy.
Oh, ISS is the police force - or close enough. They fly Scimitars and Hurricanes.
Announcing Wing Commander Pioneer (August 11, 2005)
- Thread starter ChrisReid
- Start date
Howard Day
Random art guy.
Not a bad thought. I'll stick it in the running.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
You just explained exactly what I said: you changed the colors because they weren't sexy enough. It's the continuity equivalent of deciding to make all the Zeros pink your World War II movie because green just isn't exciting.
Bright shiney red white and blue Scimitars make no sense. We know that fighters in Wing Commander have color schemes similar to real aircraft - there's a ground camo, a stealth camo, unpainted metal a-la-B-29s, etc.
Irregardless of this - the Scimitars the Landreich has are going to be ones left over from many years of Confederation service... there's no formal Landreich Navy at this point, just mix and match point defense squadrons flying whatever they can beg, steal and borrow. We're not talking about some independant star nation that's pouring fresh new Scimitars into service.
(Of course, the one part that should be red and blue... the logo... isn't.)
I fail to see how Fleet Action, from which the Landreich originates, is less of a reference than no reference at all.
Howard Day
Random art guy.
People complained about models being dull, unoriginal, and uninspiring.
We tried to fix it.
We can't please everyone.
You seem to be the extremely vocal minority in this.
Bright shiney green and red and yellow Scimitars make no sense. Yet there they are.
As for the Bright and shiney - I've already mentioned that I will be adding a suitable amount of damage, wear, and tear to these textures. And as for the uniform paint scheme, even air forces on this planet re-paint aircraft when they get them - regardless of origin. A good example of this would be the captured German fighters used by various air forces after WW2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Heinkel_He219.jpg
Even then - these fighters would have been given a reletively recent paint job. Being that the Landriech is a reletively new body in 2650, when this game takes place. So the likelyhood is that it wouldn't have worn off as much as you might think.
Even the most desolate of countries maintain their fighters and aircraft to a certain degree.
http://63.247.134.60/~pobbs/archives/images/F16 Pakistani.jpg
http://images.google.com/images?svn...la:en-US:official&q=Ukranian+jets&btnG=Search
http://www.jetzone.de/patches/sonstige/sonstige_tuerkei.jpg
In the end, the cost of a paintjob is not that much. Either today or in the WC universe, I'd guess.
Your pink Zeros comment - It's a pretty decent bit of false reasoning. WW2 is real history - events that we know took place and that we have excellent records for. We can, based on the records, state that there were never any Zero's painted Pink. (Closest I could find was a mottled brown/baige used for a failed sunset camoflauge test)
We cannot, however, see the entire imaginary history of the Landriech and state that there has never been a red/white/blue paint scheme for that space force. We have one reference, and that's pretty much it. At least I assume so, since you know better than I the lore of the Landriech - and that's the only example you present.
Therefore your contention that the paint jobs we've made here are the equivelent of pink Zeros is pretty silly.
I think we explained ourselves fairly well with why the matte black paintjob couldn't stay as it was.
As for the St Andrews crosses - they'll be changed to the Red/Blue color that they should be.
Howard
We tried to fix it.
We can't please everyone.
You seem to be the extremely vocal minority in this.
Bright shiney green and red and yellow Scimitars make no sense. Yet there they are.
As for the Bright and shiney - I've already mentioned that I will be adding a suitable amount of damage, wear, and tear to these textures. And as for the uniform paint scheme, even air forces on this planet re-paint aircraft when they get them - regardless of origin. A good example of this would be the captured German fighters used by various air forces after WW2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Heinkel_He219.jpg
Even then - these fighters would have been given a reletively recent paint job. Being that the Landriech is a reletively new body in 2650, when this game takes place. So the likelyhood is that it wouldn't have worn off as much as you might think.
Even the most desolate of countries maintain their fighters and aircraft to a certain degree.
http://63.247.134.60/~pobbs/archives/images/F16 Pakistani.jpg
http://images.google.com/images?svn...la:en-US:official&q=Ukranian+jets&btnG=Search
http://www.jetzone.de/patches/sonstige/sonstige_tuerkei.jpg
In the end, the cost of a paintjob is not that much. Either today or in the WC universe, I'd guess.
Your pink Zeros comment - It's a pretty decent bit of false reasoning. WW2 is real history - events that we know took place and that we have excellent records for. We can, based on the records, state that there were never any Zero's painted Pink. (Closest I could find was a mottled brown/baige used for a failed sunset camoflauge test)
We cannot, however, see the entire imaginary history of the Landriech and state that there has never been a red/white/blue paint scheme for that space force. We have one reference, and that's pretty much it. At least I assume so, since you know better than I the lore of the Landriech - and that's the only example you present.
Therefore your contention that the paint jobs we've made here are the equivelent of pink Zeros is pretty silly.
I think we explained ourselves fairly well with why the matte black paintjob couldn't stay as it was.
As for the St Andrews crosses - they'll be changed to the Red/Blue color that they should be.
Howard
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Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I'm not really sure how not agreeing with Bob McDob makes me a minority.
The green fighters in Wing Commander I and II are the 'ground' scheme discussed in the novels. Since the original role for space fighters was space-to-atmosphere bombing raids, it makes plenty of sense.
Yes, and we have an actual description of how the Landreich does this from Fleet Action (with the original signage painted over in fleet gray)
The Landreich isn't worn down because it's *old* (it will always be a hundred plus years younger than the Confederation...) it's worn down because it's the frontier where they don't care about such things. They make the point again and again and again in the novels that the idea behind the Landreich is that they're more interested in surviving and winning battles than things like uniforms or paint schemes (and, further, that it's *new* that they're building a proper military after the war in False Colors).
The purpose of my analogy is obvious: you've given a military fighter an unreference, contradictory paint scheme specifically to look cool.
I don't see how you did - space fighters painted like modern stealth fighters would look extremely cool if done properly.
Maj.Striker
Swabbie
Banned
Hmm, although there is definite importance given to canon accuracy I'd like to point out that WC has a history of changing color schemes. A paintjob does not a fighter make...by that I mean, you can paint a scimitar red, yellow, pink or whatever but when you look at it...after you get past the blinding glare...its still a scimitar. I'm not going to look at a red Scimitar and say it is now an X wing. Furthermore, Loaf (and company) you can't take the one description we have of Landreich Republic's color scheme and say conclusively that ALL Landreich Republic ships follow that same scheme. We had a similar discussion regarding the Perry space station earlier...someone said that from the picture on the cover of Privateer that ALL military ships entered and exited Perry from the top and all civilians entered from the lower docking bays. From the picture that does make sense...but you can't conclusively say that ALL military ships enter/exit from the top and etc.
Also, you've said it yourself...they get their ships from a hodge podge of ways...those ships aren't likely to all come with the same paint jobs. Also acorrelation to the modern world...although typically our military share a common color scheme...each branch as a different color (i.e uniforms: navy blue, olive green etc). Not every tank we have in the army is painted the same etc.
Furthermore...we see that the confederation has changed their color scheme from the very short space of time from WC2 to WC3...(I believe it was about a year's difference). A drastic change in color was made (uniforms...paint schemes etc). If Confed can do it, why couldn't (and wouldn't?) the Republic do it?
Regardless...I think there are bigger fishes to fry in this aspect. So far, what we have is a very professional looking fan project that has super accurate ships for existing models and some excellent designs for older non-existant ships. Debating the the color schemes on them is probably not the best use of our time but certainly is fun.
Also, you've said it yourself...they get their ships from a hodge podge of ways...those ships aren't likely to all come with the same paint jobs. Also acorrelation to the modern world...although typically our military share a common color scheme...each branch as a different color (i.e uniforms: navy blue, olive green etc). Not every tank we have in the army is painted the same etc.
Furthermore...we see that the confederation has changed their color scheme from the very short space of time from WC2 to WC3...(I believe it was about a year's difference). A drastic change in color was made (uniforms...paint schemes etc). If Confed can do it, why couldn't (and wouldn't?) the Republic do it?
Regardless...I think there are bigger fishes to fry in this aspect. So far, what we have is a very professional looking fan project that has super accurate ships for existing models and some excellent designs for older non-existant ships. Debating the the color schemes on them is probably not the best use of our time but certainly is fun.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I spoke with Howard Day about the paint issue in #WingNut this morning.
My biggest issue isn't that *all* Landreich fighters should be black on black stealth (though I would say having at least one in the color scheme the book specifically describes is pretty necessary).
My concern about the red white and blue Scimitar is that it's not fitting with the character of the Landreich at all - nor is it fitting with the idea that these are military spacecraft. The Scimitar in the screenshots above looks like it belongs to the Confederation's equivalent of the Blue Angels - not battling aliens and pirates for survival on the frontier.
It speaks to a core problem fans have, which is overly romanticizing the little guy into Confed Junior and in so doing ruining what makes them unique in the first place - the Aces did it with the Border Worlds, for instance. If you're going to go through the extreme effort of building a game around the Landreich concept, you should make them the rough and tumble, willing to break the rules, scornful of military formality sort we see in the novels.
Think of the times. This is 2650... the Landreich has just this year declared independance from the Confederation specifically because they're not getting the military support they need to fight the Kilrathi. They're bloodied-but-unbeaten after two major invasion attempts that they fought off by the skin of their teeth. They're not busy spit-shining their show-Scimitars.
Do I think all the fighters should be black? No, but lets see some that make sense. As I mentioned on IRC, we should basically see run down Confed fighters with their logos painted over like in old photographs of captured German and Japanese aircraft being tested in the US (FA mentions this as well). Lets see a bunch of tan Scimitars with their Confederation star's painted over in matte gray - they're the former garrison force for the Hell Hole. Lets see Hurricanes and Wildcats that look like they survived the Battle of McAuliffe, lived sixteen years and then had the red St. Andrews cross painted on their hulls.
Leave the bightly colored fighters to Confed (although not even to the extent of that blue Scimitar, unless someone wants to create a water-planet-based squadron conceit) -- that way you'll have a clear feeling of difference in design and style between the two forces, which is the purpose of art in the first place.
My biggest issue isn't that *all* Landreich fighters should be black on black stealth (though I would say having at least one in the color scheme the book specifically describes is pretty necessary).
My concern about the red white and blue Scimitar is that it's not fitting with the character of the Landreich at all - nor is it fitting with the idea that these are military spacecraft. The Scimitar in the screenshots above looks like it belongs to the Confederation's equivalent of the Blue Angels - not battling aliens and pirates for survival on the frontier.
It speaks to a core problem fans have, which is overly romanticizing the little guy into Confed Junior and in so doing ruining what makes them unique in the first place - the Aces did it with the Border Worlds, for instance. If you're going to go through the extreme effort of building a game around the Landreich concept, you should make them the rough and tumble, willing to break the rules, scornful of military formality sort we see in the novels.
Think of the times. This is 2650... the Landreich has just this year declared independance from the Confederation specifically because they're not getting the military support they need to fight the Kilrathi. They're bloodied-but-unbeaten after two major invasion attempts that they fought off by the skin of their teeth. They're not busy spit-shining their show-Scimitars.
Do I think all the fighters should be black? No, but lets see some that make sense. As I mentioned on IRC, we should basically see run down Confed fighters with their logos painted over like in old photographs of captured German and Japanese aircraft being tested in the US (FA mentions this as well). Lets see a bunch of tan Scimitars with their Confederation star's painted over in matte gray - they're the former garrison force for the Hell Hole. Lets see Hurricanes and Wildcats that look like they survived the Battle of McAuliffe, lived sixteen years and then had the red St. Andrews cross painted on their hulls.
Leave the bightly colored fighters to Confed (although not even to the extent of that blue Scimitar, unless someone wants to create a water-planet-based squadron conceit) -- that way you'll have a clear feeling of difference in design and style between the two forces, which is the purpose of art in the first place.
Eder
Mr. Standoff
Well, I think the point here is that the Landreich are an exception.Maj.Striker said:
You can say that Confed painted all their ships pink and yellow in 2660, then went back to the green scheme in 2662.... that's probably possible. But if you say the Landreich had so-and-so color scheme in 2650, you're suggesting that in 20 years, they went from having a so-and-so color scheme to scraping confed logos off their ships with kitchen knives.
I'd imagine they had even *less* worries about their ships' colors after just having declared their independence than some 20 years later.