...and again about Retros

MjavTheGray

Spaceman
Hello to everyone, guys.
I must admit I am stuck. (Talking of a literary roleplay game at prikl.ru forum)
I do have a couple of nice players who DO WANT TO PLAY retro.
And I have no info for them.

So... maybe some fan-art?
Some fan fiction?
Some ideas?

So - please please pretty please...
Will anyone help?
 
I don't think anyone is doing fan art of Retros - they look just like ordinary people.

They don't have any original ships - they fly surplus Confederation Talons (painted white with eyes on the sides) and later surplus Kilrathi Salthi (in their original durasteel).

The strangest thing about the Retros is their temple which is located on the secret planet Gaea. You can find before and after pictures of it here: https://www.wcnews.com/news/update/8192

As for roleplaying them... they're not complex - militant Amish in space. (It seems odd that someone would want to roleplay a religious fanatic while not knowing who or what they were, too.)
 
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Part of the interesting part of the Retros is there inherent hypocrisy--namely that they despise advanced technology yet rely on it to achieve their goals. It is rather like using a gun when your religion prohibits firearms. Note their cry of "Die by the very weapons that you adore".
 
BTW, I love the statement "militant AMISH in space"

The Retros are a ball of contradictions...do they use space stations? How could you walk around hating the entire building that's keeping you from dying for the moment? I suppose (I really should leave LeHah be about this, but he's pretty adamant) it's like LeHah being forced to use WikiPedia to construct an argument and bring someone down, rhetorically.
 
The concept of Retros is not all that far-fetched...

Any of you familiar with the Phelps family? (aka the most hated family in America) They are a marginal "cult" religion that believes god hates America and that their 100 or so members are the only people going to heaven. If you check them out on youtube you will probably be shocked and/or offended. At any rate, they contradict themselves by living here etc.

Some religions make claims that humans are inherently sinful/bad, that our world and the human lifetime is filled with filth etc. and that living a life devoted to the divine and an afterlife is the only proper way to live. This view can be contradictory depending on how you look at it...
 
Well I think Retros are great. In an era obsessed by survival and war, it is great to see a little idealism, and people who are prepared to die for their principles and ideology. Yes, its contradictory in some ways, and yes, they seem to die in their hundreds every time they enter combat. But they are a committed and driven group with a vision, however odd it may seem to the rest of us, and regardless of the futility of their objectives.

Their hopelessness makes them seem all the more romantic.

Glory to the Church of Man!
 
I equally respect them and enjoy removing them from the gene pool.

Many isolated anti-establishment groups hold a warm place in my heart and in many ways technology does a disservice to the human race (take that with a grain of salt, i am using a computer right now mind you.)

Plus I think they are making a point by showing humanity it's own destructive nature/hideous weapons of war.

What's so stupid about using your enemy's weapons against him? It's poetic justice in the eyes of a Retro...
 
Did the Retros participate in the defense of Earth at the Battle of Sol? Or did they never leave Gemini Sector?

They had tons of ships and an apparent great hatred for humanity, but no particular enmity toward the Kilrathi. Methinks they could have added a lot to the diversionary action that allowed Duke to board the Hakagas - at least their Talons were shielded, armed, and probably jump-capable!

But whatever their principles and ideology, whatever their willingness to die for their own causes, apparently they were never as selfless as the volunteers and civilians who sacrificed themselves to aid the 3rd fleet in the defense of Earth. The volunteers can't even really be compared to the kamikazes, for the kamikazes at least had warheads and the chance to earn some measure of personal glory or honor. The volunteers, on the other hand, had no real ability to deal damage, lacking shields, warheads, or the ability to penetrate capital ship phase shielding, or take any appreciate number of Kilrathi out with them.

Roleplaying a Retro might actually prove interesting against this backdrop. Lots of people join cults because of anxieties over self-worth, the charisma of the cult leader, or an appeal to a "higher" righteousness or direction. A Retro experiencing a crisis of faith after the Battle of Sol would be a very interesting character to play, as he or she might be forced to re-evaluate:

- his perception of himself relative to the true martyrs at the Battle of Sol
- be faced with the reality that the homeworld would have been utterly destroyed by the Kilrathi if not for resort to technology
- be faced with the horror and fear of mass genocide in the home sectors instead of the minor skirmishes he's used to in the Gemini Sector. How many Retros have actually seen a major fleet action headed their way, rather than just picking fights with merchants or privateers? How many Retros have even dealt with the tactical situation of being outnumbered?
- re-exposure to the moral and ethical worth of human beings of other faiths, since in Gemini, the Retros mostly see the worst of humanity - pirates, bounty hunters, mercenaries, and smugglers. If that's the side of humanity they see, perhaps it's more understandable how they came to the ideological leanings that led them to join the Retros.
 
I always went on the assumption that the Retros would treat Confederation and Kilrathi forces alike; through the eyes of a Retro, they are both warmongering machine-lovers and threats to the Eternal Church.

The only difference might be in their perceived capacity to convert the Confed personnel - obviously it would be easier to subject them to dogma than a Kilrathi! That Retro attacks were mounted versus Confed forces is probably geographical accident rather than stated aim.

And I do not believe that they would ever have intervened around Earth - save setting up a gigantic ambush to eliminate whoever won and therefore the greater threat going forwards. In fact, the battle of Earth would be a great recruitment opportunity for an Anti-Mechanisation cult given the use of WMD throughout the Kilrathi incursion.
 
I always went on the assumption that the Retros would treat Confederation and Kilrathi forces alike; through the eyes of a Retro, they are both warmongering machine-lovers and threats to the Eternal Church.

The only difference might be in their perceived capacity to convert the Confed personnel - obviously it would be easier to subject them to dogma than a Kilrathi! That Retro attacks were mounted versus Confed forces is probably geographical accident rather than stated aim.

And I do not believe that they would ever have intervened around Earth - save setting up a gigantic ambush to eliminate whoever won and therefore the greater threat going forwards. In fact, the battle of Earth would be a great recruitment opportunity for an Anti-Mechanisation cult given the use of WMD throughout the Kilrathi incursion.

Sure, but that's a pretty monolithic look at the Retros in general. Every cause has its fanatics, and I don't doubt that this would have been the opinion of many Retros. I wasn't suggesting that the Battle of Terra/Sol would have caused a fundamental shift within the ranks of the Retros.

That said, every extremist group has its dissenters and deserters, and I was just thinking that a human Retro with half a brain might be an interesting character to play, even if he wasn't middle-of-the-curve typical of the Retros. Judging by the number of Retros iced in deep space by capable pilots, they must have had a pretty large pool of recruits. While they might all fit a certain personality profile, they're all (debatably) free-willed humans and there may well have been some psychological or emotional variation within the group.

Of course, a former Retro would probably be marked for death by the other Retros. More than likely, given the group's fanaticism and astonishing resources. But why couldn't it happen? I mean, traitors and treason, in a Wing Commander story? What's so impossible about that? :p
 
Well needless to say this thread has gone to shit.

Retros scream when you kill them too.
 
The Retro's are just a worthless faction that you're supposed to kill. I mean that's it. Hell Standoff sums it up perfectly, "Die by the weapons that you adore, hehe these guys always crack me up"

I know I'm not the only one who knows this.
 
Well I think Retros are great. In an era obsessed by survival and war, it is great to see a little idealism, and people who are prepared to die for their principles and ideology. Yes, its contradictory in some ways, and yes, they seem to die in their hundreds every time they enter combat. But they are a committed and driven group with a vision, however odd it may seem to the rest of us, and regardless of the futility of their objectives.

This analysis doesn't make sense to me. It breaks down at its premise - how is the thin blue line of Confederation spacers sacrificing themselves to save their homes obsessed with *survival*? And how is the group of religious fanatics responsible for everything from suicide bombings to raiding shipping to mass-executing civilians to launching military campaigns to invade entire sectors of space *not* obsessed with war?

Did the Retros participate in the defense of Earth at the Battle of Sol?

Jones had already become Church Leader by this point and was working on his plan to use the Church's forces to take Gemini for himself. I'm sure throwing his new personal army away to save a Confederation that he was preparing to defeat in a similar fashion wasn't in his plans. If he wasn't already negotiating with the Kilrathi for surplus ships at the time of the battle then he would be soon after.

Or did they never leave Gemini Sector?

The Church of Man wasn't limited to the Gemini Sector - the Privateer manual begins with a story about a Retro attack on a research outpost far from Gemini (they refer to Gemini as the distant frontier). Of course, their headquarters *were* hidden in Gemini...
 
I would love to see Retros in ancient times. "I am against your technological bow but I will use it to kill you" or "I don't like you using fire so I'm going to burn you with it".
I think Retros just add a bit of comedy relief. When I get frustrated playing Privateer, I just go find some Retros to cheer me up.
 
Jones had already become Church Leader by this point and was working on his plan to use the Church's forces to take Gemini for himself. I'm sure throwing his new personal army away to save a Confederation that he was preparing to defeat in a similar fashion wasn't in his plans. If he wasn't already negotiating with the Kilrathi for surplus ships at the time of the battle then he would be soon after.

Yeah, I didn't think Jones and his Retros would come to the defense of Earth. That would have been too noble an act for an organization that Privateer unambiguously portrays as a gang of half-wit wacknuts. I'd have no sympathies for the Retros. Thoughtless, unfounded zealotry is not an admirable thing. Neither is hypocrisy.
 
Yeah, I didn't think Jones and his Retros would come to the defense of Earth. That would have been too noble an act for an organization that Privateer unambiguously portrays as a gang of half-wit wacknuts. I'd have no sympathies for the Retros. Thoughtless, unfounded zealotry is not an admirable thing. Neither is hypocrisy.

My point was that there's a fundamental (no pun intended) shift in the Church when Jones takes over. Jones is using the Retros as his private army and has no personal interest in the goals of the church - he ultimately plans to dissolve it. The pre-2668 Church of Man is different - it's still stupid, violent and hypocritical... but it's true to its particular belief in how to best help humanity. *That* church might have been willing to play cannon fodder to save the cradle of their humanity from the Kilrathi.
 
The Retros are a ball of contradictions...do they use space stations? How could you walk around hating the entire building that's keeping you from dying for the moment?

Easily. Just hate the "enemy" (technology in this case) more than you love staying alive, and you have the profile of half of the universe's suicide bombers right there.
 
Just remember - the Retro's are described in the Privateer manual as a VIOLENT extremist offshoot of the Church of Man, which itself is a relatively large religious group which seems to combine Amish sensibilities with the original Luddite sentiments involving destroying technology where possible to live a righteous, high tech-free life close to the land. They weren't all the Retro's out there either - LOAF pointed out that Brownhair/Grayson showed up in Gemini after his girlfriend got killed (presumably) on the station the Retro's attacked, some ways away from Gemini.

For all we know, there may have been Church of Man cultists amongst the civilian volunteers who acted as flying human shields for the Marines at the Battle of Terra. But the guys in Gemini... well, they were fanatics being used by a corrupt bastard to achieve his own ends.
 
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