A discussion on the true nature of the Nephilim

Originally posted by Mav23
Originally posted by Nep Parth
They do. It's in the Prophecy manual.

They don't use it, but they do have it. Cycle through some components, it should be there.

Everytime I cycle through, the only thing other than Bridge/Engines is the hanger... maybe I just missed it though...

The actual plasma cannon wasn't simulated in the game, but the glowing bits at the end of the arms were to be the plasma gun. The producers lacked the time to work out the details, though, not unlike the anti-capship gun that was planned for the Murphy-class destroyers in WCSO, but never implemented. (Do you really think a destroyer would have nothing but wussie lasers? :p )
 
Glowing bits? So they would have joined together or something like that?

And I always thought the funny protrusion at the bow was meant for something. And yes, destroyers do have nothing but wussy lasers most of the time. :) At least in-game.
 
Actually I always considered it to be a torpedo launcher on the Murphy, and used just as much as the six on the Cerberus.
 
I reckon what would make the Tiamat cool is if they could fire a continuous stream of plasma out of the tentacles then swish the tentacles around! Yeah you could wreck havoc with something like that and imagine having to dodge round 'em! :cool:

[Edited by Penguin on 05-31-2001 at 03:15]
 
Originally posted by Penguin
Did the Nephilim actually establish bases in our space? I mean did they actually start laying minefields, building new bases, tapping the resources of worlds they captured or were they just relying on their capital ships? Seems to me to be the later.
(...)

They also built a dry dock for their damaged Kraken.
 
For starters: I have followed your debate for some time
now and now decided to register. So i´m newbie, a plebe.

What do you think about Holding The Line storyline
and a picture it gives about Nephilim invasion?
I haven´t played SO, so i don´t know any additional information about the invasion, but was the situation really so depressing at the Vega front?

I don´t mean to imply that HTL would be poor story,
my opinion is that it kicks ;)
 
WC capships *always* have more weapons than are simulated in the game... doesn't mean they don't exist <G>
 
Originally posted by Rami Sihvo
What do you think about Holding The Line storyline
and a picture it gives about Nephilim invasion?
I haven´t played SO, so i don´t know any additional information about the invasion, but was the situation really so depressing at the Vega front?
I haven't read Holding The Line, but I would assume that things weren't exactly pretty. The SO fiction does make some references to the Vega worlds getting a severe beating.

...But of course, I am kinda biased, since the UE storyline follows a similar concept ;) (though I didn't even know HTL existed when I came up with the basic plot :)).
 
A thought about the Nephilem: They call us the "non-aligned." Also, I note that the Kilrathi
do not share this designation.

Note: Taunt used by NP: "This is your proving ground!"
Note: Final ace in Prophecy, as he dies: "Perhaps you are a warrior, after
all!"
Note: Most interested in our ability to kill without
remorse, without pity.


I suspect that the Aligned Peoples (the N's name for
themselves in Secret Ops) are a group of alien species,
perhaps acting symbiotically. The Nephilem are one,
but perhaps not the only, soldier caste of the Aligned
Peoples. They may not even be the principal race of the
Alliance, but directions are given by another, Master
species (like the Dominion in DS9).

I speculate that Kilrathi society was deliberately
engineered to develop into a warrior race by the Aligned
Peoples. It was the intention of the AP to absorb the
Kilrathi as a soldier caste once their development culminated. However, they proved to be a failed
experiment -- losing in combat to "Non-aligned" forces.

Thus, the AP move in to destroy the Kilrathi, as an
experiment gone wrong, a weapon system that proved to
be unworthy, having failed it's combat trials. They
assumed that the non-aligned forces that destroyed
them were weak and puny, and the Kilrathi, being defeated
by them, are also weak.

However, the AP learn differently when the non-aligned
give them a great big bloody nose in their two offensives
into Kilrathi and non-aligned space. Thus, they find
that, far from being weak and puny, they are confronting
a dangerous warrior species.

Possible option: Take the humans in place of the Kilrathi
and encourage their development into a soldier caste
like the Black Lance. After all, they're interested
in our ability to kill. Perhaps they wish to make use
of us as soldiers in the Hierearchy, in place of the
Kilrathi who had, from the AP perspective, failed
the test. Thus, the probes into our space are to test
our combat capability, to determine if we are worthy
of acting as a soldier caste of the AP. This would explain
such taunts as "This is your proving ground!"


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Edited by pendell on 05-31-2001 at 10:59]
 
I quite like that idea Pendall, but I'm not sure about the deliberate engineering of the Kilrathi, unless it was some sort of psycological engineering??
 
It would fit with the idea that the Nephilim, or, perhaps more accurately, their masters, were the star gods, who put the Cats on the path of warfare and slaughter that they have followed for thousands of years. It also could be that the Nephilim are considerably younger than the so-called star gods, which would explain their relatively pathetic level of technology considering that they are supposed to be four thousand years ahead of us. Maybe the 'soldier caste' from four thousand years ago got wiped out and replaced by the Nephilim?

As for the large numbers and crappy tech, it could be that their masters consider them eminently expendable, and don't trust them with too much power, so they keep them at a much lower technology than the masters themselves.
 
Originally posted by Primarch
I quite like that idea Pendall, but I'm not sure about the deliberate engineering of the Kilrathi, unless it was some sort of psycological engineering??


I don't think they *genetically* engineered them, I
think they did a little *social* engineering -- find a
likely race and inflict (apparently) supernatural portents and a Prophet on them to Explain It All. Y'know, sort
of Like the Ten Commandments except with Morays supplying
the lightning from Heaven and an entirely different set
of commandments, e.g.

"Kill, Kill, Kill",

"And do ye unto
your brother what he would do unto you, and do it first".

"Ye have heard it was said, an eye for an eye, but now I
tell ye a head for an eye, and his head, his wife and
children for a head, and his whole clan for a family.
For bloody revenge and violence is the way of Sivar".

"When Sivar comes, he shall separate them into the Predators
and the Prey. And he shall say to the Predators: "Come
in, ye blessed, for thou art bloody and savage murderers.
Thou showest no mercy... and he shall say to the Prey
"Depart from me ye accursed, for thou art weak and
unworthy."

So: a psychological trauma and an artificial religion to
force the Kilrathi down a path their biology already
predisposed them too. It would not surprise me that the entire "Cult of Sivar" was artificially created by Aligned Peoples anthropologists, who studied the Kilrathi to determine what cultural cues they could use to encourage their warlike behavior. The AP then gave the religion to the Kilrathi to force their society down a particular path, expecting it to culminate in the full-blown high-tech soldier caste. Finally, press home the point with
graphic and violent atrocities. Fear, especially
religious fear, is a marvelous motivator of evil behavior,
and religious memories are long.

If you read Dune by Frank Herbert, the Missionaria Protectiva in that book did something similar -- they
planted superstitions on planets in order to influence
their development and to protect themselves.

Respectfully,

Brian P.
 
An "artificial" religion? How would that be different than a normal religion?

I think that, as we don't see any other races besides the Nephilim...and we don't have any evidence of other races...we can we assume that others control them?

I think that the Nephilim are the Master Race of the Aligned Peoples. We don't have any evidence of other races. We can't assume that there aren't other races (that control them), but we also can't assume that there are.

Besides, the Star Gods just set the path of their cultural evolution. We have no evidence that they set out any "commandments" or any Terran-type. They could have just said, "We will be back. Be prepared."

Action Stations states that they were a few hundred thousand light-years away. If they were that close (relatively), then why did they use the Kilrah Gate to get into Kilrathi Space? How could they have been observing us for millenia?
 
A few hundred thousand ly is quite a distance from us, WC-universe-wise.

And don't equate the fact that Casey is good at killing bugs with the bugs having bad technology -- tech wise, they're more advanced than we are (better armor, more advanced weaponry and so forth). They've had a field day with all sorts of regular COnfed units...
 
To some extent I agree with you, LOAF. Though it has been a while since I played the game, I do recall that their missiles were rather better than ours, and we adopted them as the ELRIR. But that is a matter of a few years development. If they were so much more advanced, we shouldn't have been able to scratch them. Skill aside, those bug ships went down awfully easy.
 
The Flashpak was 'just' another weapon. You make it sound as if it was worthless.

It doesn't really have any spectacular advantages over torpedoes. Torps do have advantages such as range and the fact that ships are already fitted for them.

TC
 
It's like Maniac notices in Prophecy -- he goes up against a hundred fighter clusters, he's fine... Vanguard and Cantrell, not so much. The 'bugs whacked a lot of our ships -- they're technologically superior... but there are pilots (and we play one) who can make up for that with skill.
 
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