We Need You! (April 23, 2008)

Bandit LOAF · 04-22-2008, 17:00

Next month, members of the CIC staff will be assisting in a project to restore and archive a large amount of historical data from Origin Systems, which surely includes some fascinating lost Wing Commander elements... and we need your help! Are there any data recovery experts out there who might be willing to provide their expertise for this project? Take a look at these three types of backup media -- do you know how to read them? If so, please let us know!

--
Original update published on April 23, 2008

JasonRocZ · 04-23-2008, 17:04

Woooa Stone age discs!!!!

Kevin Caccamo · 04-23-2008, 17:18

Oh wow... You have those?

I wonder if any of them contain source code!

Royal_Marine · 04-23-2008, 19:13

The first one, Syquest HD cartridge requires a syquest drive to read it, you just slot the cartridge in like a floppy disk drive. I actually have one in a box of bits, but it's in England, so probably not much good to you, surely can't be that hard to find them they're not that old,95/96 I think.

Taser8 · 04-23-2008, 20:36

The middle one is an Exabyte digital tape. I actually have one of these laying around somewhere with some of my Wing IV stuff on it; I've tried a variety of ways of recovering it to no avail.

To complicate things further most of the graphics done for Wing III, IV, and beyond were done on Silicon Graphics machines running Irix (their proprietary Unix OS). You can occasionally find a super-discount SGI machine (an Indy or Indigo II) on eBay but if you investigate that route make sure it's got the OS installed and included.

Drizzt Do Urden · 04-23-2008, 22:06

Wow, I haven't even seen that type of disc before

Worf · 04-23-2008, 22:16

A SyQuest and a backup tape... alas, I have a Iomega Ditto drive that was given to me, but no power supply nor cables/software, nor any info if that would read it.

I do, however, have an SGI Indy machine with IRIX installed on it.

Ghibli · 04-24-2008, 00:19

The SyQuest disc can be read by an SQ5200C drive, according to Wikipedia.
I have found a store which sells those (and other kinds of legacy data storage stuff):
http://www.pacificdatastorage.com/sq5200c.asp

cff · 04-24-2008, 01:30

The first one is pretty easy, but specific. Its a special drive that reads it as other said.

The second one sure is a streamer tape. From the picture I am not sure how exotic it is, so it is hard to say which streamers would read it. As Worf said, the Iomega Ditto was one of the most compatible streamer tape readers in existance. I think I still have one in a backup machine of mine, but it wasn't used for a decade and I personally wouldn't trust it with a valuable tape.

The third one I've never seen or heart of.

Ghibli · 04-24-2008, 03:37

I have managed to dig up some info on the IBM tape.
It is a 9-track tape which was sold in three capacities (21 MB/45 MB/170 MB).
I guess tapes like that were most commonly used on IBM mainframe computers, but there are apparently also SCSI tape decks which can read those:
http://www.vinastar.com/html/9track.htm

There are also some companies (e.g. http://www.dataconversionresource.com/), which offer data conversion from such tapes onto more contemporary media.

Either way, I suspect getting the data off this one will be rather expensive.

Lofwyr · 04-24-2008, 04:35

First one is a 200MB SyQuest, I do have a functioning drive for those - but would not be of much help as I live in Germany

Would be interesting in what format it was written (could be anything from DOS to Unix).

Seond one is an Exabyte Tape - question is, in what format was it written to? tar or some sort of proprietary format. The capacity ranges from 2,3 to 7GB native. I do have 2 drives, but...

Third one looks like a standard 9 track tape - IBM and other manufacturers of mid range to big iron system use(d) them not so long ago. It was a long time standard for data exchange.

Dundradal · 04-24-2008, 05:29

The Syquest SZ555 has been acquired. My father has one that I'm going to send on its way to the guys tomorrow.

It sounds like there is some really, really great stuff on those....

Bandit LOAF · 04-24-2008, 06:11

Thanks for the help, guys! As Dundradal says, it sounds like a SyQuest drive is on the way -- so that's one down!

The SyQuests were probably the big one, but the Exabytes are a close second - I doubt we'll find something affordable to read the IBM tapes, and there were only two of those total.

Quote:

To complicate things further most of the graphics done for Wing III, IV, and beyond were done on Silicon Graphics machines running Irix (their proprietary Unix OS). You can occasionally find a super-discount SGI machine (an Indy or Indigo II) on eBay but if you investigate that route make sure it's got the OS installed and included.

That's very interesting - prices do look very reasonable... but I worry that an SGI Indy is a lot like a beautiful woman -- once I had it I wouldn't know what to do with it. That said, if it meant recovering some Wing Commander IV models I'd be happy to watch for one to send your way!

The Exabyte cartridges in this haul look rather old - as you can see in the picture, that one is from 1992... who would know what type of backups Origin was doing that long ago?

Taser8 · 04-24-2008, 07:15

I also happen to have dat drive that I think will read that exabyte tape, though I might be wrong - I purchased it in an attempt to get data off my tape backup. I'd be happy to send it on to anyone who could make use of it...

Zor Prime · 04-24-2008, 15:17

Found this for the EXATAPE. Pulled it off an ebay auction.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nice-Exabyte-Tap...QQcmdZViewItem

This looks like the right drive for that tape. (EXB-8500 or EXB-8500c)

There is also a wikipedia article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data8

Hope it helps! Can't wait to see whats on these!
======================================== =

Quote:

EXB-8500 and EXB-8500c Specifications
These specifications are for the EXB-8500 and EXB-8500c 8mm tape drives.

About the EXB-8500 and EXB-8500c
The EXB-8500 and EXB-8500c 8mm tape drives use helical-scan recording technology and read-and-write head pairs to achieve an uncompressed data transfer rate of 500 KB/sec. The EXB-8500c extends the performance of the EXB-8500 to a 10 GB capacity at a 1 MB/sec transfer rate (compressed). The EXB-8500 reads and writes 8200 and 8500 formats; the EXB-8500c writes 8200, 8200c, 8500, and 8500c data formats. The tape drives are designed to perform onboard error correction and error recovery, along with full read-after-write verification to ensure data integrity.

The tape drives are available in two configurations: as internal tape drives and as external drives that provide the convenience of a standalone peripheral.

Data handling
Capacity:
(8mm EXATAPE, 112m)
EXB-8500: 5 GB
EXB-8500c: 10 GB (compressed)*

Recording method:
Helical-scan

Compression method:
Improved Data Recording Capability compression algorithm

Data transfer rate:
500 KB/sec, uncompressed
1 MB/sec, compressed*

Device reliability (mean time between failures):
MTBF: 40,000 hours

Data integrity:
BER: <1 in 1017 bits
Reed Solomon ECC

Darkmage · 04-24-2008, 15:49

anyone got a costing on that ibm tape drive?

Zor Prime · 04-24-2008, 17:15

Here's a good article about older IBM 9 track tapes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9_track_tape

Ghibli · 04-24-2008, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkmage

anyone got a costing on that ibm tape drive?

They have a couple of 9-track tape drives with SCSI interface on eBay for prices ranging from $675 to $1200: here, here, and here

Also, here is a list of various 9-track tape drives, which lists (for most of them) if they have a SCSI interface: http://www.cpuinc.com/9track.html.

Bandit LOAF · 04-25-2008, 07:40

Woah, quite a bit of money for one of those tape drives... and I'm not sure I'd know how to use it even if I did throw $700 at one (well, okay, I'm quite sure I *wouldn't* know how to use it...). I'll also throw this out there -- if there's someone with experience in working with this type of media who would like to come along for our trip then they're invited!

Does anyone know what paying a recovery service to transfer the tapes might cost? Or if there are places that might rent the drives? We're looking at only two of the 9-track tapes (and they're unlabeled, so they could be anything...)

I do think my feeble non-techno-brain is getting used to planning out how the 8mm drives will work - so thank you very much for that!

Quote:

I also happen to have dat drive that I think will read that exabyte tape, though I might be wrong - I purchased it in an attempt to get data off my tape backup. I'd be happy to send it on to anyone who could make use of it...

That would be great! If you send it to me then I'll take it to EA and then return it to you. I don't think there's a big rush at this point - they're still trying to find us a block of days to do the job. It won't happen until late May or June.

(I know you're in Virginia on occasion, too -- if you happen to be around when we're doing this project then you're more than welcome to come dig through Origin stuff with us...)

Worf · 04-25-2008, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit LOAF

That's very interesting - prices do look very reasonable... but I worry that an SGI Indy is a lot like a beautiful woman -- once I had it I wouldn't know what to do with it. That said, if it meant recovering some Wing Commander IV models I'd be happy to watch for one to send your way!

Like I said, I do have an SGI Indy collecting dust on my shelf... I don't have a monitor for it, nor much use for it (other than occasionally playing with an old version of Unix).

I suppose I can let it go if someone wants it.

Bandit LOAF · 04-26-2008, 16:04

Howdy folks,
I bought a new deck for transferring VHSes to DVDes for the EA mission (two boxes contained VHSes) and I've spent Saturday playing with it. W e now have as-high-quality-as-possible transfers of:

* Wing Commander Academy, 13 Episodes
* Savage Dragon, Episode "Endgame"
* Wing Commander Movie EPK
* Wing Commander IV German Raw Footage - Reel 7
* Wing Commander Movie Rough Cut (4/7/98)
* Wing Commander Movie Rough Cut (7/11/98)

I'm going to spend tonight transferring the rough cuts a few more times, since I have to send those two tapes back to their donor. Jetlag recommended doing several passes.

The WCAs look amazing - much nicer than the DivXes. I'm glad I bought nice tapes all those years ago!

Blaster · 04-27-2008, 06:53

Does this mean we’ll be able to download higher quality versions of the WCA episodes from the CIC soon?

Bandit LOAF · 04-27-2008, 07:40

I can't necessarily promise *soon*, but we are working on it!

04-27-2008, 09:21

Data recovery costs either per megabyte or per medium. You might opt to restore not the files, because you couldn't read them, but all te raw data blocks. 0's and 1's.

The tapes, if well-preserved, should all still be capable of allowing you to produce the data stored on them, but this depends on how many times they have been used.

You might try your first five hits on google that turn up on data recovery, most of them have a no-cure-no-pay procedure.... meaning you'd only pay shipping costs if they can not solve your problem.

Blaster · 04-28-2008, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit LOAF

I can't necessarily promise *soon*, but we are working on it!

Awesome!

Dundradal · 04-29-2008, 05:28

The Syquest was put in the mail yesterday! Hopefully it arrives intact (I put a shitload of bubblewrap around the thing but that was the largest box we had at work that wasn't obscenely too big).

04-22-2008, 17:00	#1
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 23,934	We Need You! (April 23, 2008) Next month, members of the CIC staff will be assisting in a project to restore and archive a large amount of historical data from Origin Systems, which surely includes some fascinating lost Wing Commander elements... and we need your help! Are there any data recovery experts out there who might be willing to provide their expertise for this project? Take a look at these three types of backup media -- do you know how to read them? If so, please let us know! -- Original update published on April 23, 2008

04-23-2008, 17:18	#3
Kevin Caccamo Captain Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 476	Oh wow... You have those? I wonder if any of them contain source code! __________________ 3.141592654 \| Wing Commander Saga website \| Wing Commander Saga Forum \| The 158th Banshee Squadron website \| The 158th Banshee Squadron forum \| Project Leader: Landreich Campaign \| Congratulations on outliving your enemies - LOAF

04-23-2008, 19:13	#4
Royal_Marine 2nd Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 78	The first one, Syquest HD cartridge requires a syquest drive to read it, you just slot the cartridge in like a floppy disk drive. I actually have one in a box of bits, but it's in England, so probably not much good to you, surely can't be that hard to find them they're not that old,95/96 I think. __________________ "Phoenix" - Wing Commander: Rebel Assault

04-24-2008, 05:29	#12
Dundradal TCS Tarawa (CVE-8) "Plank Owner" Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Confederate Archives, Confed HQ, Sol System Posts: 3,752	The Syquest SZ555 has been acquired. My father has one that I'm going to send on its way to the guys tomorrow. It sounds like there is some really, really great stuff on those.... __________________ "To you, we are deeply grateful, and release what little hold we might, as Durandal, have had on your soul. Go." - Final Terminal Message Marathon Infinity

04-24-2008, 15:49	#16
Darkmage Major Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 699	anyone got a costing on that ibm tape drive? __________________ Organiser and co founder of the Wing Commander Universe Project Http://wcuniverse.sourceforge.net

04-23-2008, 17:04	#2
JasonRocZ Lieutenant Colonel Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Albany NY Posts: 825	Woooa Stone age discs!!!!

04-23-2008, 20:36	#5
Taser8 Cadet Join Date: May 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 60	The middle one is an Exabyte digital tape. I actually have one of these laying around somewhere with some of my Wing IV stuff on it; I've tried a variety of ways of recovering it to no avail. To complicate things further most of the graphics done for Wing III, IV, and beyond were done on Silicon Graphics machines running Irix (their proprietary Unix OS). You can occasionally find a super-discount SGI machine (an Indy or Indigo II) on eBay but if you investigate that route make sure it's got the OS installed and included.

04-23-2008, 22:06	#6
Drizzt Do Urden Captain Join Date: May 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 389	Wow, I haven't even seen that type of disc before

04-23-2008, 22:16	#7
Worf Brigadier General Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,292	A SyQuest and a backup tape... alas, I have a Iomega Ditto drive that was given to me, but no power supply nor cables/software, nor any info if that would read it. I do, however, have an SGI Indy machine with IRIX installed on it.

04-24-2008, 00:19	#8
Ghibli Cadet Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8	The SyQuest disc can be read by an SQ5200C drive, according to Wikipedia. I have found a store which sells those (and other kinds of legacy data storage stuff): http://www.pacificdatastorage.com/sq5200c.asp

04-24-2008, 01:30	#9
cff Disciple of Murphy Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Austria Posts: 2,546	The first one is pretty easy, but specific. Its a special drive that reads it as other said. The second one sure is a streamer tape. From the picture I am not sure how exotic it is, so it is hard to say which streamers would read it. As Worf said, the Iomega Ditto was one of the most compatible streamer tape readers in existance. I think I still have one in a backup machine of mine, but it wasn't used for a decade and I personally wouldn't trust it with a valuable tape. The third one I've never seen or heart of.

04-24-2008, 03:37	#10
Ghibli Cadet Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8	I have managed to dig up some info on the IBM tape. It is a 9-track tape which was sold in three capacities (21 MB/45 MB/170 MB). I guess tapes like that were most commonly used on IBM mainframe computers, but there are apparently also SCSI tape decks which can read those: http://www.vinastar.com/html/9track.htm There are also some companies (e.g. http://www.dataconversionresource.com/), which offer data conversion from such tapes onto more contemporary media. Either way, I suspect getting the data off this one will be rather expensive.

04-24-2008, 04:35	#11
Lofwyr Cadet Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3	First one is a 200MB SyQuest, I do have a functioning drive for those - but would not be of much help as I live in Germany Would be interesting in what format it was written (could be anything from DOS to Unix). Seond one is an Exabyte Tape - question is, in what format was it written to? tar or some sort of proprietary format. The capacity ranges from 2,3 to 7GB native. I do have 2 drives, but... Third one looks like a standard 9 track tape - IBM and other manufacturers of mid range to big iron system use(d) them not so long ago. It was a long time standard for data exchange.

04-24-2008, 07:15	#14
Taser8 Cadet Join Date: May 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 60	I also happen to have dat drive that I think will read that exabyte tape, though I might be wrong - I purchased it in an attempt to get data off my tape backup. I'd be happy to send it on to anyone who could make use of it...

04-24-2008, 17:15	#17
Zor Prime Avatarless Wonder Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Denton,TX Posts: 2,053	Here's a good article about older IBM 9 track tapes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9_track_tape __________________ You walk into a ROOM. There is a DOOR to the NORTH. You are attacked by a GIANT FRESHWATER LAND OCTOPUS. You DIE. What do you do?

04-26-2008, 16:04	#21
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 23,934	Howdy folks, I bought a new deck for transferring VHSes to DVDes for the EA mission (two boxes contained VHSes) and I've spent Saturday playing with it. W e now have as-high-quality-as-possible transfers of: * Wing Commander Academy, 13 Episodes * Savage Dragon, Episode "Endgame" * Wing Commander Movie EPK * Wing Commander IV German Raw Footage - Reel 7 * Wing Commander Movie Rough Cut (4/7/98) * Wing Commander Movie Rough Cut (7/11/98) I'm going to spend tonight transferring the rough cuts a few more times, since I have to send those two tapes back to their donor. Jetlag recommended doing several passes. The WCAs look amazing - much nicer than the DivXes. I'm glad I bought nice tapes all those years ago! __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

04-27-2008, 06:53	#22
Blaster 2nd Lieutenant Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Definitely not sneaking up behind you...so don’t look. Posts: 122	Does this mean we’ll be able to download higher quality versions of the WCA episodes from the CIC soon? __________________ With my tongue I offer fealty. With my claws I unsheathe victory. With my mane bowed I lie down. And offer up my life for honor.

04-27-2008, 07:40	#23
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 23,934	I can't necessarily promise soon, but we are working on it! __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

04-27-2008, 09:21	#24
Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a	Data recovery costs either per megabyte or per medium. You might opt to restore not the files, because you couldn't read them, but all te raw data blocks. 0's and 1's. The tapes, if well-preserved, should all still be capable of allowing you to produce the data stored on them, but this depends on how many times they have been used. You might try your first five hits on google that turn up on data recovery, most of them have a no-cure-no-pay procedure.... meaning you'd only pay shipping costs if they can not solve your problem.

04-29-2008, 05:28	#26
Dundradal TCS Tarawa (CVE-8) "Plank Owner" Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Confederate Archives, Confed HQ, Sol System Posts: 3,752	The Syquest was put in the mail yesterday! Hopefully it arrives intact (I put a shitload of bubblewrap around the thing but that was the largest box we had at work that wasn't obscenely too big). __________________ "To you, we are deeply grateful, and release what little hold we might, as Durandal, have had on your soul. Go." - Final Terminal Message Marathon Infinity