The Fine Line Between Trash and Treasure (April 13, 2008)

Bandit LOAF · 04-12-2008, 17:00

This is a sad tale -- with a happy ending. Some months ago Kotaku ran an update about our Wing Commander I blueprint scans. This prompted an anonymous EA employee to respond in the comments page that his division had just thrown out boxes of old Origin games and shipped other material away. He included some photos:

Prince Thrakhath himself, plus his helmet and armor! Unwanted and abandoned? Possibly thrown out? We were heartbroken -- he belongs in a museum. We rushed into action -- contacts at EA tried to find out what had happened, friends in the industry listened to us crying and so forth. No luck... until, a month later the props surfaced again at EA Mythic in Virginia. The helmet appeared here, in a short cell phone camera video documenting the development of Warhammer Online. We've since confirmed that a large amount of EA's archived Origin material was shipped to Mythic... and that it all safe and being cared for by people who appreciate its importance! Whew.

--
Original update published on April 13, 2008

LeHah · 04-13-2008, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit LOAF

We were heartbroken -- he belongs in a museum.

Indiana Jones on your mind, LOAF?

AD · 04-13-2008, 17:30

I wonder what kind of other origin treasures they have there? They should let somebody go through it all... maybe the WC2 snes copy will turn up! Or some other design documents and scripts for unpublished titles!

Shipgate · 04-13-2008, 20:12

Hmm. Even seeing those things in boxes is disheartening of the tiger.

Oggy · 04-14-2008, 02:21

phew, close call, but at least they are safe now

Bandit LOAF · 04-14-2008, 09:05

Well, I can now say that I have visited Mythic and spoken with the man in charge -- and he's going to give us access to the collection to help archive it all!

Starman · 04-14-2008, 10:08

Great news LOAF!

Still I can't help wonder why EA Mythic have it. Did they request it for some development reasons perchance

ELTEE · 04-14-2008, 10:19

Going to fall into a cliche feel-good moment here.

This is the kind of thing that really separates this site from others like it (or, I should say, others that try and be like it.) This is really cool news - I'm glad that we are able to help preserve and archive materials like this. As usual, if anything is needed, ask!

Bandit LOAF · 04-14-2008, 10:20

Heh, sorry, I have to burst that bubble -- it was sent to Mythic because they're the studio responsible for Ultima Online at this time.

Bandit LOAF · 04-14-2008, 10:25

Quote:

This is the kind of thing that really separates this site from others like it (or, I should say, others that try and be like it.) This is really cool news - I'm glad that we are able to help preserve and archive materials like this. As usual, if anything is needed, ask!

Well, we're putting together a team to go in there and do the job right in a few weeks. People who are willing to spend a few days coming down and working on the project are welcome... and I'd also like to hear from anyone with knowledge of how to restore various types of tape backups...

ELTEE · 04-14-2008, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit LOAF

Well, we're putting together a team to go in there and do the job right in a few weeks. People who are willing to spend a few days coming down and working on the project are welcome... and I'd also like to hear from anyone with knowledge of how to restore various types of tape backups...

Let me check on the tape issue. My father has been involved in audio engineering and post production his entire life, and still has access to a myriad of studios with just this type of equipment. I will let you know what I uncover...

Also - when you have a firm idea of dates, let us know! The 'ol schedule is always hectic, but if it can be done, it would be great to help out!

EDIT - Hey LOAF, had a preliminary conversation with him. What kinds of formats do you anticipate dealing with? Is the goal to have them converted to a digital medium for storage?

T.K. Sax · 04-14-2008, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandit LOAF

and I'd also like to hear from anyone with knowledge of how to restore various types of tape backups...

What kind of tape backups? I have some old computer tape drives laying around work that I am sure I could arrange to get your way.

Bandit LOAF · 04-14-2008, 12:51

That is the goal -- digital medium for storage and... you know, playing with.

At this point we're looking at three exotic formats (plus a bunch of ordinary ones - CDs, 3.5" disks, VHSes, MiniDVs, etc.):

- Exatape 8mm Data Cartridges (several - the one I snapped the reference pic of is '112m')
- SyQuest 5.25" Removable Hard Drive (many - sized 44MB, 88MB and 200MB)
- (2) 9-Track IBM Multi-System Tapes (looks like it came from a mainframe - I don't have a whole lot of hope for restoring this myself.)

Bandit LOAF · 04-15-2008, 08:44

I should also mention that it sounds like we've tracked down another 'holy grail' -- and hope to show it off at a little movie premiere party at the end of this job!

Dyret · 04-15-2008, 11:35

Wow, is that a Kilrathi flight suit on the second picture? Is it complete?

Bandit LOAF · 04-15-2008, 11:42

Complete in so far as only the top part existed to begin with.

Thrakhath and the Kilrathi helmet/armor were the only props... everything else was much, much more interesting.

Pedro · 04-15-2008, 13:55

I can't wait for the updates about all the cool finds. My fingers are crossed that the item warranting a movie premier is the original video for Wing Commader 3, it would certainly be nice to have a complete set of FMV grails.

floundericiousMI · 04-15-2008, 14:23

Wow, this is amazing!!

Great job, LOAF!

WC3 was a real game-changer and those props at least belong in something like a video game museum or (better yet) in a science fiction museum... thankfully they didn't end up in a landfill or on a barge to nowhere!

@LeHah: I love the indiana jones reference...I'm trying to envision LOAF holding the flight suit or Thrakhath's head while covered in spider webs running through an office building a la the Hovito scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark

Bandit LOAF · 04-15-2008, 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro

I can't wait for the updates about all the cool finds. My fingers are crossed that the item warranting a movie premier is the original video for Wing Commader 3, it would certainly be nice to have a complete set of FMV grails.

Sorry -- although it's possible-to-likely that the Wing Commander 3 footage will be among what we recover from Mythic!

(The movie premiere would be for the original traitor cut of the Wing Commander movie.)

Pedro · 04-16-2008, 01:40

Wow, that's probably an even better find. Awesome!

ELTEE · 04-18-2008, 06:38

Thanks for everyone's patience.

Unfortunately, the studio which supported these formats has recently closed their doors. Part of an overall trend that is forcing a lot of studios on the east cost out of business.

I am sorry I am unable to offer any additional technical help. It is quite possible that a restore company would be able to support these formats as well. If I find a good one, I will let you know.

For what it's worth, I am still willing to donate my time!

Bandit LOAF · 04-18-2008, 07:07

Hey -- thanks for checking, I'm glad people are looking into this regardless of the results. I'm going to run a CIC update in the next few days asking for help. Here are pictures of the media types we found:

SyQuest Drive: http://www.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/mythic001.jpg
8mm Tape: http://www.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/mythic002.jpg
Multi-System Tape: http://www.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/mythic003.jpg

... and here's a picture of part of the job site:

http://www.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/mythic004.jpg

There are more boxes to the right and the left of the photo - including another entire table (on the right)! There's also an amazing table with all of Origin's awards plaques and trophies on it...

Dundradal · 04-18-2008, 11:11

I need to double check with my father but I believe he has one of those Syquest drives in his attic. It's been a while but I do recall him having one and having tons of those tapes lying around. Hopefully it wasn't one of the many devices killed in a lightening strike 9 or 10 years ago.

Probably have an answer later today.

Bandit LOAF · 04-18-2008, 11:23

Good -- I have some word as to what's on them, too and... well, it's good. See me on IRC tonight.

Dundradal · 04-18-2008, 13:00

Ok he still has the drive, although he's unsure if it still works and if it will take the 200 MB cartridges. He used the 44 MB cartridges in it, he's checking to see if it will do the 200 or if he has another one lying around.

Hopefully it does as I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem parting with it.

04-12-2008, 17:00	#1
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 23,934	The Fine Line Between Trash and Treasure (April 13, 2008) This is a sad tale -- with a happy ending. Some months ago Kotaku ran an update about our Wing Commander I blueprint scans. This prompted an anonymous EA employee to respond in the comments page that his division had just thrown out boxes of old Origin games and shipped other material away. He included some photos: Prince Thrakhath himself, plus his helmet and armor! Unwanted and abandoned? Possibly thrown out? We were heartbroken -- he belongs in a museum. We rushed into action -- contacts at EA tried to find out what had happened, friends in the industry listened to us crying and so forth. No luck... until, a month later the props surfaced again at EA Mythic in Virginia. The helmet appeared here, in a short cell phone camera video documenting the development of Warhammer Online. We've since confirmed that a large amount of EA's archived Origin material was shipped to Mythic... and that it all safe and being cared for by people who appreciate its importance! Whew. -- Original update published on April 13, 2008

04-13-2008, 17:30	#3
AD Finder of things, Doer of stuff Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 3,020	I wonder what kind of other origin treasures they have there? They should let somebody go through it all... maybe the WC2 snes copy will turn up! Or some other design documents and scripts for unpublished titles! __________________ "I saw a monster come with speed, Its face of grimmliest green, On human beings used to feed, Most dreadful to be seen." - Excerpt from Horrors, Lewis Carroll, 1850

04-13-2008, 20:12	#4
Shipgate Brigadier General Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: August 2, 1011 Posts: 1,324	Hmm. Even seeing those things in boxes is disheartening of the tiger. __________________ The sum must be correct.

04-14-2008, 02:21	#5
Oggy Captain Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nottingham Posts: 442	phew, close call, but at least they are safe now __________________ "Fire some kinda laser thingy at 'em... right now!" Almighty Tallest Red

04-14-2008, 09:05	#6
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 23,934	Well, I can now say that I have visited Mythic and spoken with the man in charge -- and he's going to give us access to the collection to help archive it all! __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

04-14-2008, 10:08	#7
Starman Cadet Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Essex, United Kingdom Posts: 63	Great news LOAF! Still I can't help wonder why EA Mythic have it. Did they request it for some development reasons perchance __________________ "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) / Admiral Geoffrey Tolwyn (2612-2674) Got some news0r?

04-14-2008, 10:19	#8
ELTEE Major Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Waltham, MA Posts: 620	Going to fall into a cliche feel-good moment here. This is the kind of thing that really separates this site from others like it (or, I should say, others that try and be like it.) This is really cool news - I'm glad that we are able to help preserve and archive materials like this. As usual, if anything is needed, ask! __________________ To be a good soldier, you must love the Army. To be a good officer, you must be willing to sacrifice that which you love...Killer Angels

04-14-2008, 10:20	#9
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 23,934	Heh, sorry, I have to burst that bubble -- it was sent to Mythic because they're the studio responsible for Ultima Online at this time. __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

04-14-2008, 12:51	#13
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 23,934	That is the goal -- digital medium for storage and... you know, playing with. At this point we're looking at three exotic formats (plus a bunch of ordinary ones - CDs, 3.5" disks, VHSes, MiniDVs, etc.): - Exatape 8mm Data Cartridges (several - the one I snapped the reference pic of is '112m') - SyQuest 5.25" Removable Hard Drive (many - sized 44MB, 88MB and 200MB) - (2) 9-Track IBM Multi-System Tapes (looks like it came from a mainframe - I don't have a whole lot of hope for restoring this myself.) __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

04-15-2008, 08:44	#14
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 23,934	I should also mention that it sounds like we've tracked down another 'holy grail' -- and hope to show it off at a little movie premiere party at the end of this job! __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

04-15-2008, 11:35	#15
Dyret Super Carrot! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 2,151	Wow, is that a Kilrathi flight suit on the second picture? Is it complete? __________________ Glory to the many

04-15-2008, 11:42	#16
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 23,934	Complete in so far as only the top part existed to begin with. Thrakhath and the Kilrathi helmet/armor were the only props... everything else was much, much more interesting. __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

04-15-2008, 13:55	#17
Pedro Swabbie Banned Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: England Posts: 1,346	I can't wait for the updates about all the cool finds. My fingers are crossed that the item warranting a movie premier is the original video for Wing Commader 3, it would certainly be nice to have a complete set of FMV grails.

04-15-2008, 14:23	#18
floundericiousMI Captain Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 431	Wow, this is amazing!! Great job, LOAF! WC3 was a real game-changer and those props at least belong in something like a video game museum or (better yet) in a science fiction museum... thankfully they didn't end up in a landfill or on a barge to nowhere! @LeHah: I love the indiana jones reference...I'm trying to envision LOAF holding the flight suit or Thrakhath's head while covered in spider webs running through an office building a la the Hovito scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark __________________ "Jesus asked me to post about this." - LOAF "It's Roquero, from the Celeste system. It's bright, it heats your blood, it makes you want to live a long life!" - Vaquero, WCIII

04-16-2008, 01:40	#20
Pedro Swabbie Banned Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: England Posts: 1,346	Wow, that's probably an even better find. Awesome!

04-18-2008, 06:38	#21
ELTEE Major Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Waltham, MA Posts: 620	Thanks for everyone's patience. Unfortunately, the studio which supported these formats has recently closed their doors. Part of an overall trend that is forcing a lot of studios on the east cost out of business. I am sorry I am unable to offer any additional technical help. It is quite possible that a restore company would be able to support these formats as well. If I find a good one, I will let you know. For what it's worth, I am still willing to donate my time! __________________ To be a good soldier, you must love the Army. To be a good officer, you must be willing to sacrifice that which you love...Killer Angels

04-18-2008, 07:07	#22
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 23,934	Hey -- thanks for checking, I'm glad people are looking into this regardless of the results. I'm going to run a CIC update in the next few days asking for help. Here are pictures of the media types we found: SyQuest Drive: http://www.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/mythic001.jpg 8mm Tape: http://www.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/mythic002.jpg Multi-System Tape: http://www.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/mythic003.jpg ... and here's a picture of part of the job site: http://www.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/mythic004.jpg There are more boxes to the right and the left of the photo - including another entire table (on the right)! There's also an amazing table with all of Origin's awards plaques and trophies on it... __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

04-18-2008, 11:11	#23
Dundradal TCS Tarawa (CVE-8) "Plank Owner" Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Confederate Archives, Confed HQ, Sol System Posts: 3,752	I need to double check with my father but I believe he has one of those Syquest drives in his attic. It's been a while but I do recall him having one and having tons of those tapes lying around. Hopefully it wasn't one of the many devices killed in a lightening strike 9 or 10 years ago. Probably have an answer later today. __________________ "To you, we are deeply grateful, and release what little hold we might, as Durandal, have had on your soul. Go." - Final Terminal Message Marathon Infinity

04-18-2008, 11:23	#24
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 23,934	Good -- I have some word as to what's on them, too and... well, it's good. See me on IRC tonight. __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

04-18-2008, 13:00	#25
Dundradal TCS Tarawa (CVE-8) "Plank Owner" Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Confederate Archives, Confed HQ, Sol System Posts: 3,752	Ok he still has the drive, although he's unsure if it still works and if it will take the 200 MB cartridges. He used the 44 MB cartridges in it, he's checking to see if it will do the 200 or if he has another one lying around. Hopefully it does as I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem parting with it. __________________ "To you, we are deeply grateful, and release what little hold we might, as Durandal, have had on your soul. Go." - Final Terminal Message Marathon Infinity