WC4 Mod For Homeworld 2 In The Works (June 5, 2006)

ChrisReid · 06-04-2006, 17:00

We've got a new fan project to announce for the first time today, and it's already looking pretty sharp. Aaron Thomas has been building a mod for Homeworld 2 that recreates it in Wing Commander 4's image. WC4 is a very popular game among fans (it's in the lead in our current poll), but relatively few mods are based in that specific era. A variety of ships and features have already been implemented. The shots below reveal Banshees, Bearcats, Hellcats, Excaliburs and a Concordia class Fleet Carrier. Ships look very nice and detailed in the Homeworld engine, and the interface should allow for a good mix of fighter and capital ship combat. Right now Aaron is working on the project alone, but there is quite a precedent for solo individuals creating fantastic finished works. In the future, fellow fans will probably be able to help by contributing feedback, minor graphical elements and other material. Hit the 'discuss' link below to let everyone know what you think so far.

Quote:

I am working on a game MOD for Homeworld 2 that converts it to the Wing Commander 4 universe. Also I would require a small amount of assistance in some of the technical info about certain ships, some data is not available on your site such as the dimensions of the Durango class carriers, etc. I realise this info may not exist anywhere in writing, but for sake of the creation of this mod, it would really really help if I could correspond with someone from your site about info like this. I'll eventually need UI icons and some other material that I'm sure the community can help me out with this. I however would like to stress - NO DEADLINE [release date] - just in the case that people start asking when it will be done and stuff. I am doing it alone, getting it done and it will be great. That's my promise.

--
Original update published on June 5, 2006

Maj.Striker · 06-05-2006, 18:58

Well it looks really sweet...unfortunately I'm getting tired of all the announced mods that for RTS style games and yet we haven't seen a single release of anything from anyone. Sorry to sound pessimistic...the screenshots look pretty darn cool but...I want to see a release before I get excited about it.

Lt.Death100 · 06-05-2006, 19:04

I'm sorry but I have to agree, I need to see something more substantial than a few ships to convince me to have faith in this mod.

johndmes · 06-05-2006, 20:19

--
Original update published on June 5, 2006[/quote]

If I recall my WC4 history correctly, the length of the Durango class is 530 m. It is basically a kitbash, with a custom hangar/bridge area (that was neve shown in one piece; in the game the bridge module has been blown apart as Blair arrives on the ship for the first time and never repaired. The command center we see is the backup CIC, buried in the ship's hull.) The engines/turret mounts are modified Tallahasee hulls, turned sideways and refitted to operate in that dimension, with engines where the Tallahasee hangar used to be.

Now, for a ship-strapped Border World economy, this of course makes no sense, as kitbashes never do - companies seem to use 'em anyway, as it's easier to use elements of existing models in designs than it is to create completely new ones....but that's a academic's argument.

ChrisReid · 06-05-2006, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maj.Striker

Well it looks really sweet...unfortunately I'm getting tired of all the announced mods that for RTS style games and yet we haven't seen a single release of anything from anyone.

Fleet Action, the original Homeworld RTS mod, had some sort of release. Something like PiArmada probably counts as a turn based strategy game. And I think this looks better than most of the Nexus stuff and other strategy game mods that were started and fizzled out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt.Death100

I'm sorry but I have to agree, I need to see something more substantial than a few ships to convince me to have faith in this mod.

It didn't take more anything more than screenshots of a few ships to give you faith in WC Saga. http://www.crius.net/zone/showthread.php?t=20156 Or even a few sentences about "boring stuff" http://www.crius.net/zone/showthread.php?t=20200 And they've been working on it for five years and are still months away from their preview release.

People need to be very careful about carrying over feelings from other projects onto new ones. Most fan projects fizzle out and go nowhere. You can't escape that. But people were quite skeptical of Unknown Enemy back in the day. People's experiences with other teams caused them to be quite pessimistic about that one. And beyond it turning into a great mod on its own, it directly continued into Standoff today. Chances are against any individual mod working out, and everyone should have been keeping this in mind when we got a flurry of new projects at the beginning of this year. But each project has to be judged on its own merits, and this one looks neat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndmes

If I recall my WC4 history correctly, the length of the Durango class is 530 m. It is basically a kitbash, with a custom hangar/bridge area (that was neve shown in one piece; in the game the bridge module has been blown apart as Blair arrives on the ship for the first time and never repaired. The command center we see is the backup CIC, buried in the ship's hull.) The engines/turret mounts are modified Tallahasee hulls, turned sideways and refitted to operate in that dimension, with engines where the Tallahasee hangar used to be.

Now, for a ship-strapped Border World economy, this of course makes no sense, as kitbashes never do - companies seem to use 'em anyway, as it's easier to use elements of existing models in designs than it is to create completely new ones....but that's a academic's argument.

The design is a lot more distinct than a couple cruisers joined with a flight deck. The only similarities are a few angles near the front. It's pretty much all new. "Kit-bashes" are very rare in Wing Commander. There's a couple creative ones in Secret Ops.

Chicken · 06-05-2006, 22:35

That's pretty cool. Guess I should say you [Aaron Thomas] did what I couldn't do: Getting the HW2 modding tools to work (it's a long and depressing story which ivolves multiple reinstalls, system failures and general madness from WinME).

czacen · 06-06-2006, 01:34

Hi everyone, as the developer of this mod, i realise the pessimistic outlook of most WC fans. but if anyone thinks i am not going to follow this through and there are just a few ships done, go ahead and check out the official relic forums thread with some more goddies (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=95176). sorry Chris i knew you said that we would post the pics as a later update but i got the thread going over there and i could hardly wait to hear what other modders had to say as well as get some technical problems addressed. plus lets use this as an oppertunity to boost the faith a little. and let me tell you there are still more ships completed in game that i have not released screenshots of yet

also thanks to the responce on the durango class. i think however, that i am going to first finish up the confed ships. anyone have an idea on the length of the tallahassee. right now ive got it slightly longer than the conordia class carrier. i really hope its not the stated 500+ meters that is listed for the wc3 version. this ship is going to be the major firepower for the confed so id like it to have some presence on the battlefield. plus does anyone have any idea what that lovely head-light on the front of the cruiser is supposed to be? a sensor array or a weapon? if so i can add it to the ingame ship attributes.

thanks in advance
- aaron

Mincemeat · 06-06-2006, 01:57

Whoa. Even if the gameplay mechanics can't be 100% authentic especially in regards to shields, the eye candy alone has it sold.

Looking forward to more updates!

Sylvester · 06-06-2006, 04:52

Last I checked, the Concordia class fleet carrier was some 800 meters long.

Lt.Death100 · 06-06-2006, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisReid

It didn't take more anything more than screenshots of a few ships to give you faith in WC Saga. http://www.crius.net/zone/showthread.php?t=20156 Or even a few sentences about "boring stuff" http://www.crius.net/zone/showthread.php?t=20200 And they've been working on it for five years and are still months away from their preview release.

This is a brand new mod, WCS has been in the works for quite a while.

czacen · 06-06-2006, 10:20

a small upate. The tallahassee in its borderworld uniform. new guns, engines and paint. was going to finish the destroyer class ship but i misplaced some files so it will probably only be ready tomorrow. c&c everyone. also still waiting for the info on the tallahassee length and glow light on the front. anybody?

johndmes · 06-06-2006, 13:04

AFAIK, nobody really kows, since nothing's ever been seen in any of the games coming out of that port.

Most of WC's gameplay was fighter-centric, there really weren't any capship battles seen in WCIII - WCIV that involved the Tallahasee. IIRC there really wasn't any mention in the novels either about the ship's fighting capabilities - the focus was always on other classes of ships.

If I had to venture a guess, I'd assume that either that was a monster capship missile launcher, OR a light phase cannon. It wouldn't make sense as any kind of a long-range sensor (WC sensor arrays are simple dishes/antennae, not Star Trek-like glowy ports)

For Homeworld purposes, I'd make it a ion-frigate style ion cannon - making it's niche a ion frigate that can fight off fighters

Dyret · 06-06-2006, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndmes

If I had to venture a guess, I'd assume that either that was a monster capship missile launcher, OR a light phase cannon.

Phase cannon?

QuailPilot · 06-06-2006, 14:14

the Tactics Nexus mod didn't fizzle out...

There just happens to be a lack of people working on it.

johndmes · 06-06-2006, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyret

Phase cannon?

In the novels, at the defense of Earth some of the major capships (Concordia and others) had been equipped with a "phase cannon" - a monster energy cannon that was able to penetrate phase shields, but used enormous amounts of energy to do so. Kinda a variant on the superweapon in the WC II expansion. As WC III/IV take place long after the defense of Earth, I'd assume that the technology wasn't thrown away, but refined and made so that something less than a battleship/fleet carrier could carry a lesser variant.

ChrisReid · 06-06-2006, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by czacen

sorry Chris i knew you said that we would post the pics as a later update but i got the thread going over there and i could hardly wait to hear what other modders had to say as well as get some technical problems addressed. plus lets use this as an oppertunity to boost the faith a little. and let me tell you there are still more ships completed in game that i have not released screenshots of yet

This is as good a time as any. Post any pictures you'd like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by czacen

also thanks to the responce on the durango class. i think however, that i am going to first finish up the confed ships. anyone have an idea on the length of the tallahassee. right now ive got it slightly longer than the conordia class carrier. i really hope its not the stated 500+ meters that is listed for the wc3 version. this ship is going to be the major firepower for the confed so id like it to have some presence on the battlefield.

The Concordia carriers are some of the biggest ships Confed has at the time. The 530 meter figure for the cruiser should be correct. That shouldn't change anything for your project though. Cruisers are supposed to be major firepower on the battlefield:

"Tereshkova wouldn't have believed it possible for the
Kilrathi ship to hold out this long. Even a Kilrathi carrier
wasn't supposed to be able to handle a stand-up fight with
Terran cruisers. Their primary weapons were the fighter
squadrons they carried, and with a few exceptions they
hadn't been able to launch fighters with their hangar decks
crippled in the first exchange of fire.'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt.Death100

This is a brand new mod, WCS has been in the works for quite a while.

Exactly, and all they have are pictures.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndmes

Most of WC's gameplay was fighter-centric, there really weren't any capship battles seen in WCIII - WCIV that involved the Tallahasee. IIRC there really wasn't any mention in the novels either about the ship's fighting capabilities - the focus was always on other classes of ships.

False Colors, the book where we get the name Tallahassee, starts with a furious battle between two Confed cruisers and a Kilrathi fleet carrier. http://www.wcnews.com/fc.txt

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuailPilot

the Tactics Nexus mod didn't fizzle out...

There just happens to be a lack of people working on it.

I'd call that fizzling out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndmes

In the novels, at the defense of Earth some of the major capships (Concordia and others) had been equipped with a "phase cannon" - a monster energy cannon that was able to penetrate phase shields, but used enormous amounts of energy to do so. Kinda a variant on the superweapon in the WC II expansion. As WC III/IV take place long after the defense of Earth, I'd assume that the technology wasn't thrown away, but refined and made so that something less than a battleship/fleet carrier could carry a lesser variant.

WC3 takes place a matter of months after the Battle of Earth, and only a few short years after the events of Wing Commander 2. The Phase Transit Cannon was so large it formed the keel of the huge Confederation Class Dreadnought. It was only utilized on this class, and it was abandoned shortly before WC3 because it was too unstable.

czacen · 06-07-2006, 10:37

this may sound kind of weird, but can anyone tell me where the 3 remaining turrets go on the concordia? ive got only 8 of the 11 so far.

czacen · 06-07-2006, 13:23

small update. these guys are going to play a important role for the BW side.

still waiting for the concordia turret info guys. thanks in advance

BrynS · 06-07-2006, 15:32

The mod looks really promising, czacen -- seems like you've put in a lot of development time already!

Regarding the turret placement on a Concordia Class Fleet Carrier, I don't believe there has been any official documentation/reference images as to the exact placement, so it would probably be best to extrapolate from the TCS Victory (Hermes type Light Carrier according to Loaf's Ships List V2.0) which appears structurally similar but comprises significantly less tonnage than the Concordia class.

Your Concordia model appears to derive from the WC4 Lexington (referenced in-game as Concordia class, although it uses the WC3 Victory model in the game engine. The Concordia class is larger and substantially more powerful (carries over twice the fighters/bombers) than the Hermes class and while they appear to share the same design heritage, the Concordia class has its conning tower noticably on its starboard side versus the Herme's port-side.

I think Loaf mentioned in another thread last year that Origin intended to produce a high-res Concordia class model (and presumably lower-res, in-game, gameplay version too) for WC4 but had to shelve the idea, probably due to time constraints.

These images from WC3 gameplay may prove useful in determining the placement:

_

Some more reference images from the WC3 cinematics:

TCS Victory Ref 01 (19KB)
TCS Victory Ref 02 (16KB)
TCS Victory Ref 03 (18KB)
TCS Victory Ref 04 (25KB)
TCS Victory Ref 05 (23KB)

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

BrynS

ChrisReid · 06-07-2006, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrynS

Your Concordia model appears to derive from the WC4 Lexington (referenced in-game as Concordia class, although it uses the WC3 Victory model in the game engine. The Concordia class is larger and substantially more powerful (carries over twice the fighters/bombers) than the Hermes class and while they appear to share the same design heritage, the Concordia class has its conning tower noticably on its starboard side versus the Herme's port-side.

That's a WC Saga mistake. The Concordia class also has its tower on the left.

BrynS · 06-07-2006, 16:08

Thanks for the correction, Chris

I was cognisant of the Concordia design and conning tower placement as it appeared in WC4, but seem to have been "convinced" by the discourse elsewhere (most likely in the Saga sub-forum) that this was not the intended design. I think I'll feign insanity and claim I was under the influence... of too much Saga noise.

Edfilho · 06-08-2006, 09:22

The models are GORGEOUS. I really like the fighters in the Homeworld forum.

I really hope this one will get done. HW2 is a very good spaceRTS game.

The Tallahassee is especially pretty.

BTW, why don't you use the Vesuvius as one of the two main factions' Mothership?

Crazy J · 06-08-2006, 11:28

As far as stats go, you might want to check out the fleet tactics website. It only goes up through Wing Commander 3, but most of the ships from 3 were also in 4, so it'll help some. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but it all sounds pretty reasonable.

http://tactics.solsector.net

That should help some with the weapons and ship descriptions. I didn't know if you'd been there at all or not, so I figured I might as well post it and see what you thought.

06-05-2006, 22:35	#6
Chicken 1st Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In a land far far away Posts: 296	That's pretty cool. Guess I should say you [Aaron Thomas] did what I couldn't do: Getting the HW2 modding tools to work (it's a long and depressing story which ivolves multiple reinstalls, system failures and general madness from WinME). __________________ Yessir, I think I'm back.

06-06-2006, 04:52	#9
Sylvester Colonel Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Sol Sector, Earth, Edgewater, NJ Posts: 1,204	Last I checked, the Concordia class fleet carrier was some 800 meters long. __________________ Admiral Joshua Dworkin, Wing Commander: Against All Odds Lead Writer/Storyline Developer, Wing Commander Pioneer

06-06-2006, 13:04	#12
johndmes Cadet Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Glendale, CA Posts: 6	Glowy Tallahasee bow AFAIK, nobody really kows, since nothing's ever been seen in any of the games coming out of that port. Most of WC's gameplay was fighter-centric, there really weren't any capship battles seen in WCIII - WCIV that involved the Tallahasee. IIRC there really wasn't any mention in the novels either about the ship's fighting capabilities - the focus was always on other classes of ships. If I had to venture a guess, I'd assume that either that was a monster capship missile launcher, OR a light phase cannon. It wouldn't make sense as any kind of a long-range sensor (WC sensor arrays are simple dishes/antennae, not Star Trek-like glowy ports) For Homeworld purposes, I'd make it a ion-frigate style ion cannon - making it's niche a ion frigate that can fight off fighters

06-06-2006, 14:14	#14
QuailPilot Major Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: TSGS Wolfenstien Posts: 595	the Tactics Nexus mod didn't fizzle out... There just happens to be a lack of people working on it. __________________ Here comes a Quail YEEEHAAW! "What dirty, filthy mind you got." Humphrey Bogart Owner of www.freewebs.com/quailpilot/

06-07-2006, 15:32	#19
BrynS Mr Kat says... Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: TCS Victory Posts: 481	The mod looks really promising, czacen -- seems like you've put in a lot of development time already! Regarding the turret placement on a Concordia Class Fleet Carrier, I don't believe there has been any official documentation/reference images as to the exact placement, so it would probably be best to extrapolate from the TCS Victory (Hermes type Light Carrier according to Loaf's Ships List V2.0) which appears structurally similar but comprises significantly less tonnage than the Concordia class. Your Concordia model appears to derive from the WC4 Lexington (referenced in-game as Concordia class, although it uses the WC3 Victory model in the game engine. The Concordia class is larger and substantially more powerful (carries over twice the fighters/bombers) than the Hermes class and while they appear to share the same design heritage, the Concordia class has its conning tower noticably on its starboard side versus the Herme's port-side. I think Loaf mentioned in another thread last year that Origin intended to produce a high-res Concordia class model (and presumably lower-res, in-game, gameplay version too) for WC4 but had to shelve the idea, probably due to time constraints. These images from WC3 gameplay may prove useful in determining the placement: _ Some more reference images from the WC3 cinematics: TCS Victory Ref 01 (19KB) TCS Victory Ref 02 (16KB) TCS Victory Ref 03 (18KB) TCS Victory Ref 04 (25KB) TCS Victory Ref 05 (23KB) Hope this helps! Cheers, BrynS __________________ "Your work is both good and original. Unfortunately the part that is good is not original and the part that is original is not good." - Samuel Johnson

06-05-2006, 18:58	#2
Maj.Striker Swabbie Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Des Moines Posts: 2,067	Well it looks really sweet...unfortunately I'm getting tired of all the announced mods that for RTS style games and yet we haven't seen a single release of anything from anyone. Sorry to sound pessimistic...the screenshots look pretty darn cool but...I want to see a release before I get excited about it.

06-05-2006, 19:04	#3
Lt.Death100 Colonel Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The heart of all evil, Utah. Posts: 1,162	I'm sorry but I have to agree, I need to see something more substantial than a few ships to convince me to have faith in this mod.

06-05-2006, 20:19	#4
johndmes Cadet Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Glendale, CA Posts: 6	-- Original update published on June 5, 2006[/quote] If I recall my WC4 history correctly, the length of the Durango class is 530 m. It is basically a kitbash, with a custom hangar/bridge area (that was neve shown in one piece; in the game the bridge module has been blown apart as Blair arrives on the ship for the first time and never repaired. The command center we see is the backup CIC, buried in the ship's hull.) The engines/turret mounts are modified Tallahasee hulls, turned sideways and refitted to operate in that dimension, with engines where the Tallahasee hangar used to be. Now, for a ship-strapped Border World economy, this of course makes no sense, as kitbashes never do - companies seem to use 'em anyway, as it's easier to use elements of existing models in designs than it is to create completely new ones....but that's a academic's argument.

06-06-2006, 01:34	#7
czacen 1st Lieutenant Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Blackmane Posts: 204	Hi everyone, as the developer of this mod, i realise the pessimistic outlook of most WC fans. but if anyone thinks i am not going to follow this through and there are just a few ships done, go ahead and check out the official relic forums thread with some more goddies (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=95176). sorry Chris i knew you said that we would post the pics as a later update but i got the thread going over there and i could hardly wait to hear what other modders had to say as well as get some technical problems addressed. plus lets use this as an oppertunity to boost the faith a little. and let me tell you there are still more ships completed in game that i have not released screenshots of yet also thanks to the responce on the durango class. i think however, that i am going to first finish up the confed ships. anyone have an idea on the length of the tallahassee. right now ive got it slightly longer than the conordia class carrier. i really hope its not the stated 500+ meters that is listed for the wc3 version. this ship is going to be the major firepower for the confed so id like it to have some presence on the battlefield. plus does anyone have any idea what that lovely head-light on the front of the cruiser is supposed to be? a sensor array or a weapon? if so i can add it to the ingame ship attributes. thanks in advance - aaron

06-06-2006, 01:57	#8
Mincemeat Not A Dralthi Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 260	Whoa. Even if the gameplay mechanics can't be 100% authentic especially in regards to shields, the eye candy alone has it sold. Looking forward to more updates!

06-06-2006, 10:20	#11
czacen 1st Lieutenant Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Blackmane Posts: 204	a small upate. The tallahassee in its borderworld uniform. new guns, engines and paint. was going to finish the destroyer class ship but i misplaced some files so it will probably only be ready tomorrow. c&c everyone. also still waiting for the info on the tallahassee length and glow light on the front. anybody?

06-07-2006, 10:37	#17
czacen 1st Lieutenant Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Blackmane Posts: 204	this may sound kind of weird, but can anyone tell me where the 3 remaining turrets go on the concordia? ive got only 8 of the 11 so far.

06-07-2006, 13:23	#18
czacen 1st Lieutenant Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Blackmane Posts: 204	small update. these guys are going to play a important role for the BW side. still waiting for the concordia turret info guys. thanks in advance

06-07-2006, 16:08	#21
BrynS Mr Kat says... Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: TCS Victory Posts: 481	Thanks for the correction, Chris I was cognisant of the Concordia design and conning tower placement as it appeared in WC4, but seem to have been "convinced" by the discourse elsewhere (most likely in the Saga sub-forum) that this was not the intended design. I think I'll feign insanity and claim I was under the influence... of too much Saga noise. __________________ "Your work is both good and original. Unfortunately the part that is good is not original and the part that is original is not good." - Samuel Johnson

06-08-2006, 09:22	#22
Edfilho Cry some more! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil Posts: 3,522	The models are GORGEOUS. I really like the fighters in the Homeworld forum. I really hope this one will get done. HW2 is a very good spaceRTS game. The Tallahassee is especially pretty. BTW, why don't you use the Vesuvius as one of the two main factions' Mothership?

06-08-2006, 11:28	#23
Crazy J Cadet Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: FBI research lab Posts: 57	As far as stats go, you might want to check out the fleet tactics website. It only goes up through Wing Commander 3, but most of the ships from 3 were also in 4, so it'll help some. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but it all sounds pretty reasonable. http://tactics.solsector.net That should help some with the weapons and ship descriptions. I didn't know if you'd been there at all or not, so I figured I might as well post it and see what you thought. __________________ -- I am Ninja. Hear me stab.