PERRY, where do you land?

Marc · 06-09-2005, 20:44

It's a simple matter really...

In Privateer, when you landed, the transition sequence never showed exactly where you entered the station... and after that you could only see the view of some honeycomb style landing bay.

In my little head, I've got it down to tree possible sites- but I'm guessing here.

Can anyone confirm where the landing bay is?
If not, does anyone whant to venture a guess?

Please, educate me.

cff · 06-10-2005, 01:29

I don't know, but my guess always was #2

Happy Camper · 06-10-2005, 12:11

I think perry is supposed to be pretty damn bug so there's probably loads of docking bays that can't be seen from far away.

6and7eighths · 06-10-2005, 12:22

This picture makes it look like fighters and other small craft enter through the portal on the station's north pole. I would imagine that the equitorial ring has facilities to dock larger craft, and the large hangar doors on the southern globe serve as drydock.

Marc · 06-12-2005, 04:32

6and7eighths you're a genius. I had forgotten about that image. The CIC has the full version in its wallpaper section and it contains the awnser...

Civilians go in on the bottom...
Military goes out through the top...
and my wold is a better place

Dyret · 06-12-2005, 08:50

Yeah, it makes sense for the military and civillians to have different docks.

Shaggy · 06-12-2005, 09:23

In the Reckoning FL mod you dock in the top.
Although, considering how large Perry is I think all three would be logical. Perhaps larger ships dock at the top and bottom and smaller craft would land around the perimeter.

Danaru · 06-12-2005, 09:45

it looks like Capitol ships could go in the top and bottom (military and civilian separated) and then small ships could go through the sides?

or the sides could be for Perry's compliment fighters?

ChrisReid · 06-12-2005, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danaru

it looks like Capitol ships could go in the top and bottom (military and civilian separated) and then small ships could go through the sides?

or the sides could be for Perry's compliment fighters?

I think all the evidence in this thread demonstrates exactly the opposite. Smaller vessels are pictured going in both the top and bottom, with no fighters along the sides. It also makes sense that the larger ships take up too much internal space and would therefore use perimeter ports, if that's what they are.

Happy Camper · 06-13-2005, 03:42

Based on the second picture it's clear to me that civilian ships go in the bottom and military go in the top. I don't think there is much more too it than that.

Maj.Striker · 06-13-2005, 05:39

Yes...as we know, a single picture can be completely and utterly conclusive. Why bother considering any other evidence? Especially when the said picture does not show the civilian ship entering through the bottom...unless of course Perry station is only the size of about 15 Centurions...the fighter is merely pointed at the station in general. It could be rotating to enter through the top section. It could be lining up to enter into a side port. I don't think it's entering the bottom bay considering how big it is in relation to the station. I fail to see how you can say from that single picture that all military ships leave Perry through the top exit and all civilian ships enter/leave through the bottom bay.

Marc · 06-13-2005, 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maj.Striker

I fail to see how you can say from that single picture that all military ships leave Perry through the top exit and all civilian ships enter/leave through the bottom bay.

I am in complete agreement about the size of the Centurion relative to Perry. The reason I didn't give it mutch thought is that the picture seems to be a montage of various dramatic views- nothing actually logical. I mean, the image also shows an agricultural planet merely a couple of millons kilometres away from Perry, in fact the station might actually be orbiting the thing and TWO Paradigms cuising alongside- none of witch is actually seen in the game...

http://www.wcnews.com/wallpapers/full/PRIVATER.BMP

Happy Camper · 06-14-2005, 10:42

The point about the size of the centurion is a good one. You have to remeber though, that the scaling was never that good on the original privateer anyway.

6and7eighths · 06-14-2005, 11:17

Only because we're never really given any basis for comparison, or hard numbers. Simply using a rough estimate, based on the interior dimensions of the ships available to the player and their comparability to one another, it's a safe bet that they're all in the neighborhood of one hundred meters in length (putting all of them neatly into the corvette category).

I would imagine that Perry is fairly massive as far as Wing Commander space stations go. It is, after all, the primary fortification on the Terran-Kilrathi frontier in the Gemini Sector, probably about twice as large as the Wing Commander II starbase. Most of its internal volume is probably hollow, in fact, the central shaft lined with a honeycomb of berths like those seen in the in-game hangar screen.

But more than that, it seems to me that the station would also house a substantial civilian population. Contractors, support staff, and military families would make up a substantial portion of the permanant population in addition to the naval and space forces personnel, just as in a terrestrial military base town. All that means really big, much bigger than a couple dozen Centurions lined up end to end. :P

Or maybe I'm just reading too deeply into it.

Dyret · 06-14-2005, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6and7eighths

it's a safe bet that they're all in the neighborhood of one hundred meters in length.

What the hell are you on.

6and7eighths · 06-14-2005, 14:08

I've actually been clean for a couple of months now, thanks for asking.

These are not fighters we're talking about, their civilian starships with extensive cargo capacity, amenities for interstellar travel, and soforth. Take the Galaxy, for example. The cockpit is downright cavernous, and it's clear from design that it drew at least some inspiration from the Millenium Falcon (not a small ship, either). It stands to reason that the interior configuration is equally similar, in purpose if not dimensions. The Orion seats an additional two bridge crew behind the pilot, and the Tarsus (easily the smallest of the lot) has room for a copilot sitting abreast the player character. These are vessels which you could easily stand up and walk around in. Even the Centurion, which only seats one in its small dome cockpit, has a cargo capacity of seventy-five units (cubic meters? Who knows).

It naturally follows that these ships have more in common with a Venture-class corvette (eighty meters) than, say, a Sabre or Broadsword (Both large fighter-bombers, 23 and 36 meters, respectively).

Bandit LOAF · 06-15-2005, 04:00

I agree with 6and7eighths. Note that we do not know the size of the Privateer ships and that they are transports, more akin to Paladin's Free Trader than fighters -- they can hold their own with the second string units in Gemini, but would be wholly outmatched by the Confederation and Kilrathi fighters serving in contested sectors... just compare the specifications of a Hellcat V or an Excalibur to anything in Privateer. Also, we do not know the size of Perry. Since we're comparing two complete unknowns, it seems difficult to discount anything based on such a statement.

(I'm going to discount the 'twice as large as the WC2 stations' claim, though -- it's a complete unknown. The WC2 stations are remarkably large, have huge fighter complements and are generally seen in much more important areas than Gemini. I believe the ships database entry for them you've linked to is wrong -- the proper 'length' should be 2400 meters, since the statistic given in the original Joan's is "Radius: 1200 meters")

Furthermore, to what end do we dismiss that the Centurion can land in the bottom of Perry? Why would we need or want to discount the only evidence we have of where the ships land? "Because we like something we decided better" isn't a very good reason.

Maj.Striker · 06-15-2005, 05:46

I disagree somewhat. My point earlier that I was trying to make was not that it's impossible for the civilian ships to enter and leave from the bottom bay of Perry but that one picture doesn't mean that all civilian ships enter and exit through Perry's bottom bay and allmilitary ships enter and exit through the top of Perry. That could very well be true but basing that off of one picture is not conclusive enough for me. In regards to the size issue...I disagree because when we look at New Constantinople. There are several ships docked inside the cavernous bay of the station. Noticeably we see quite a size difference between the Drayman (which we really should have hard numbers on size for...) and the Centurion. I don't have the particular picture I'm referring to in front of me but I think there's at least 10 or so ships pictured with plenty of open room between them all. If the Centurion is 100 meters and the Drayman looks to be about 3-5x that size then that means the interior of New Constantinople's hangar area alone is much much larger than 10,000 meters...not to mention the actual living areas of the station.

Marc · 06-15-2005, 06:08

The reason I whanted to know the bay's location in the first place was...

Dyret · 06-15-2005, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6and7eighths

I've actually been clean for a couple of months now, thanks for asking.

I'm glad to hear that.

6and7eighths · 06-15-2005, 15:29

Ask a smartass question, get a smartass answer. I actually find this discussion to be fairly interesting, so I'd be much obliged if you could find it in yourself to either contribute, or withold your lack of wit.

Getting back on topic...

In truth, the suggestion that Perry is twice as large as the Wing Commander II starbase was fairly arbitrary. I wouldn't be so quick to discount Gemini as an unimportant sector, however; it was clearly important enough for Confed to fortify the border before widespread colonization began, placing a major military installation way off the beaten path. It would seem to me that the nerve center of the sector, overseeing the blockade of several systems and naval operations throughout the sector, would be pretty large.

Working just with what we have, which admittedly isn't much, we can reasonably say that the upper sphere has about a hundred decks (judging from the number of windows). And, it's certainly possible that the majority of these windows correspond to the storeys-high windows seen in the background of the main concourse, although more likely these are only present around the equator.

What it comes right down to, however, is what we don't know... which, as LOAF pointed out, is pretty much everything. Then again, how would we make educated guesses without discussion like this?

ChrisReid · 06-15-2005, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6and7eighths

In truth, the suggestion that Perry is twice as large as the Wing Commander II starbase was fairly arbitrary. I wouldn't be so quick to discount Gemini as an unimportant sector, however; it was clearly important enough for Confed to fortify the border before widespread colonization began, placing a major military installation way off the beaten path.

Perry isn't that far off the path, because there are certainly quite a number of sectors where conflicts occur that are further out than Gemini. But LOAF's right in saying the starbases we see are usually in quite strategic areas along main jump routes to critical worlds. Although Gwenydd is described as something of a backwater because it's not along a direct route to the inner worlds, it is a border system in the critical Enigma Sector.

BradMick · 06-15-2005, 15:48

wow....100 meters or so? i did some comparison stuff, and based on cockpit interiors and putting a human sized figure relative to the privateer ships....there is NO way they are anywhere near 100 meters in size. more in the 30 or so meter range. in fact, for the tarsus, it came out to be about 36.8 meters. compare off the cockpits of the other craft, and you'll discover they're not going to be much bigger than that.

thats my .02 in this argument/debate/whatever.

Ptarmigan · 06-15-2005, 18:52

Off topic, I wonder how large Perry is? I remember at the Fleet Tactics website saying that Ella is 4 kilometers and Sol Station is 10 kilometers.

6and7eighths · 06-15-2005, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisReid

Perry isn't that far off the path, because there are certainly quite a number of sectors where conflicts occur that are further out than Gemini. But LOAF's right in saying the starbases we see are usually in quite strategic areas along main jump routes to critical worlds. Although Gwenydd is described as something of a backwater because it's not along a direct route to the inner worlds, it is a border system in the critical Enigma Sector.

Just because Gemini sits adjascent to Sol doesn't make it any less of a backwater. It's sparsely settled and scarcely explored. A number of systems still possess their Exploratory Service catalog numbers, rather than proper names (for example, ND-57 sits right off of New Detroit, arguably the most heavily developed planet in the sector.) The significance of Perry's location seems to be that it was the absolute limit of Confed influence when the border was fortified, and the chokepoint between the rest of the sector and the Kilrathi border. To whit;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing Commander: Privateer manual

Gemini is still a newborn sector struggling to find her feet. It has only been 30 years since the military set out to contain Kilrathi expansion by entrenching along the border. It was during this early entrenching period that the Exploratory Services (ES) were first called in to map out available resources, including habitable planets, mineral-rich asteroids and jump tunnels.

Within the first five years of exploration, two major factors contributed to the opening of Gemin to public enterprise. The first was the rapid entrenchment of military forces far from established supply lines and support services -- they needed access to local resources. The second factor was the tremendous wealth of resources discovered by the ES in Gemini. This was essential in boosting the Confederation's gross worth.

At the time the border was fortified, Perry was of incredible strategic importance. Without it, standing vigil far from the core worlds of the Confederation, the Kilrathi would easily have been able to expand into Gemini and have a straight shot into the Sol sector (Oxford > Mastif > Weslyn > Sirius > Sol).

Moving on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradMick

wow....100 meters or so? i did some comparison stuff, and based on cockpit interiors and putting a human sized figure relative to the privateer ships....there is NO way they are anywhere near 100 meters in size. more in the 30 or so meter range. in fact, for the tarsus, it came out to be about 36.8 meters. compare off the cockpits of the other craft, and you'll discover they're not going to be much bigger than that.

thats my .02 in this argument/debate/whatever.

I haven't taken the opportunity to measure their exact dimensions recently, but I think it's clear that the Tarsus is by far the smallest of the four available ships. The Centurion, on the other hand, is clearly a massive vessel, considering that the cockpit appears so small on the exterior, and must be deep enough to stand upright in as it has an iris hatch along its back wall.

But, once again, that number was completely arbitrary based upon what we do know of other ships with more complete statistics that fulfil similar functions (Venture, Drayman, Clydesdale and Free Trader, all of which measure between 75 and 100 meters)

06-09-2005, 20:44	#1
Marc Captain Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: 3rd Rock Posts: 479	PERRY, where do you land? It's a simple matter really... In Privateer, when you landed, the transition sequence never showed exactly where you entered the station... and after that you could only see the view of some honeycomb style landing bay. In my little head, I've got it down to tree possible sites- but I'm guessing here. Can anyone confirm where the landing bay is? If not, does anyone whant to venture a guess? Please, educate me. Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Untill you realise that someday you will die, you are useless"_fightclub

06-10-2005, 12:11	#3
Happy Camper Captain Join Date: May 2005 Location: A magical land full of sheep, potatoes, and small mountains Posts: 322	I think perry is supposed to be pretty damn bug so there's probably loads of docking bays that can't be seen from far away. __________________ A pint a day keeps the liver at bay. Webmaster - www.thecult.tk - Go there, now! Woo hoo! 300 posts

06-10-2005, 12:22	#4
6and7eighths Cadet Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 44	This picture makes it look like fighters and other small craft enter through the portal on the station's north pole. I would imagine that the equitorial ring has facilities to dock larger craft, and the large hangar doors on the southern globe serve as drydock. __________________ Give me a kiss to build a dream on. . .

06-12-2005, 04:32	#5
Marc Captain Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: 3rd Rock Posts: 479	6and7eighths you're a genius. I had forgotten about that image. The CIC has the full version in its wallpaper section and it contains the awnser... Civilians go in on the bottom... Military goes out through the top... and my wold is a better place Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Untill you realise that someday you will die, you are useless"_fightclub

06-12-2005, 08:50	#6
Dyret Super Carrot! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 2,145	Yeah, it makes sense for the military and civillians to have different docks. __________________ Glory to the many

06-10-2005, 01:29	#2
cff Disciple of Murphy Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Austria Posts: 2,546	I don't know, but my guess always was #2

06-12-2005, 09:23	#7
Shaggy Major Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The Land Of Nineteen Posts: 687	In the Reckoning FL mod you dock in the top. Although, considering how large Perry is I think all three would be logical. Perhaps larger ships dock at the top and bottom and smaller craft would land around the perimeter. __________________ I do not kill with my gun, he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart. - Gunslinger's Litany Look out! He's got a gun and he doesn't know how to use it! - Bosco

06-12-2005, 09:45	#8
Danaru Cadet Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 19	it looks like Capitol ships could go in the top and bottom (military and civilian separated) and then small ships could go through the sides? or the sides could be for Perry's compliment fighters?

06-13-2005, 03:42	#10
Happy Camper Captain Join Date: May 2005 Location: A magical land full of sheep, potatoes, and small mountains Posts: 322	Based on the second picture it's clear to me that civilian ships go in the bottom and military go in the top. I don't think there is much more too it than that. __________________ A pint a day keeps the liver at bay. Webmaster - www.thecult.tk - Go there, now! Woo hoo! 300 posts

06-13-2005, 05:39	#11
Maj.Striker Swabbie Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Des Moines Posts: 2,067	Yes...as we know, a single picture can be completely and utterly conclusive. Why bother considering any other evidence? Especially when the said picture does not show the civilian ship entering through the bottom...unless of course Perry station is only the size of about 15 Centurions...the fighter is merely pointed at the station in general. It could be rotating to enter through the top section. It could be lining up to enter into a side port. I don't think it's entering the bottom bay considering how big it is in relation to the station. I fail to see how you can say from that single picture that all military ships leave Perry through the top exit and all civilian ships enter/leave through the bottom bay.

06-14-2005, 10:42	#13
Happy Camper Captain Join Date: May 2005 Location: A magical land full of sheep, potatoes, and small mountains Posts: 322	The point about the size of the centurion is a good one. You have to remeber though, that the scaling was never that good on the original privateer anyway. __________________ A pint a day keeps the liver at bay. Webmaster - www.thecult.tk - Go there, now! Woo hoo! 300 posts

06-14-2005, 11:17	#14
6and7eighths Cadet Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 44	Only because we're never really given any basis for comparison, or hard numbers. Simply using a rough estimate, based on the interior dimensions of the ships available to the player and their comparability to one another, it's a safe bet that they're all in the neighborhood of one hundred meters in length (putting all of them neatly into the corvette category). I would imagine that Perry is fairly massive as far as Wing Commander space stations go. It is, after all, the primary fortification on the Terran-Kilrathi frontier in the Gemini Sector, probably about twice as large as the Wing Commander II starbase. Most of its internal volume is probably hollow, in fact, the central shaft lined with a honeycomb of berths like those seen in the in-game hangar screen. But more than that, it seems to me that the station would also house a substantial civilian population. Contractors, support staff, and military families would make up a substantial portion of the permanant population in addition to the naval and space forces personnel, just as in a terrestrial military base town. All that means really big, much bigger than a couple dozen Centurions lined up end to end. :P Or maybe I'm just reading too deeply into it. __________________ Give me a kiss to build a dream on. . .

06-14-2005, 14:08	#16
6and7eighths Cadet Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 44	I've actually been clean for a couple of months now, thanks for asking. These are not fighters we're talking about, their civilian starships with extensive cargo capacity, amenities for interstellar travel, and soforth. Take the Galaxy, for example. The cockpit is downright cavernous, and it's clear from design that it drew at least some inspiration from the Millenium Falcon (not a small ship, either). It stands to reason that the interior configuration is equally similar, in purpose if not dimensions. The Orion seats an additional two bridge crew behind the pilot, and the Tarsus (easily the smallest of the lot) has room for a copilot sitting abreast the player character. These are vessels which you could easily stand up and walk around in. Even the Centurion, which only seats one in its small dome cockpit, has a cargo capacity of seventy-five units (cubic meters? Who knows). It naturally follows that these ships have more in common with a Venture-class corvette (eighty meters) than, say, a Sabre or Broadsword (Both large fighter-bombers, 23 and 36 meters, respectively). __________________ Give me a kiss to build a dream on. . .

06-15-2005, 04:00	#17
Bandit LOAF It wears the skull of its dead mother on its head. When it becomes lonesome, it is said to cry loudly. Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Ashton, MD, USA Posts: 23,925	I agree with 6and7eighths. Note that we do not know the size of the Privateer ships and that they are transports, more akin to Paladin's Free Trader than fighters -- they can hold their own with the second string units in Gemini, but would be wholly outmatched by the Confederation and Kilrathi fighters serving in contested sectors... just compare the specifications of a Hellcat V or an Excalibur to anything in Privateer. Also, we do not know the size of Perry. Since we're comparing two complete unknowns, it seems difficult to discount anything based on such a statement. (I'm going to discount the 'twice as large as the WC2 stations' claim, though -- it's a complete unknown. The WC2 stations are remarkably large, have huge fighter complements and are generally seen in much more important areas than Gemini. I believe the ships database entry for them you've linked to is wrong -- the proper 'length' should be 2400 meters, since the statistic given in the original Joan's is "Radius: 1200 meters") Furthermore, to what end do we dismiss that the Centurion can land in the bottom of Perry? Why would we need or want to discount the only evidence we have of where the ships land? "Because we like something we decided better" isn't a very good reason. __________________ Long live the Confederation, Ben "Bandit" Lesnick, LMG. "You go, Loaf! Get some!" -JPG

06-15-2005, 05:46	#18
Maj.Striker Swabbie Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Des Moines Posts: 2,067	I disagree somewhat. My point earlier that I was trying to make was not that it's impossible for the civilian ships to enter and leave from the bottom bay of Perry but that one picture doesn't mean that all civilian ships enter and exit through Perry's bottom bay and allmilitary ships enter and exit through the top of Perry. That could very well be true but basing that off of one picture is not conclusive enough for me. In regards to the size issue...I disagree because when we look at New Constantinople. There are several ships docked inside the cavernous bay of the station. Noticeably we see quite a size difference between the Drayman (which we really should have hard numbers on size for...) and the Centurion. I don't have the particular picture I'm referring to in front of me but I think there's at least 10 or so ships pictured with plenty of open room between them all. If the Centurion is 100 meters and the Drayman looks to be about 3-5x that size then that means the interior of New Constantinople's hangar area alone is much much larger than 10,000 meters...not to mention the actual living areas of the station.

06-15-2005, 06:08	#19
Marc Captain Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: 3rd Rock Posts: 479	The reason I whanted to know the bay's location in the first place was... Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Untill you realise that someday you will die, you are useless"_fightclub Last edited by Marc; 06-15-2005 at 06:16.

06-15-2005, 15:29	#21
6and7eighths Cadet Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 44	Ask a smartass question, get a smartass answer. I actually find this discussion to be fairly interesting, so I'd be much obliged if you could find it in yourself to either contribute, or withold your lack of wit. Getting back on topic... In truth, the suggestion that Perry is twice as large as the Wing Commander II starbase was fairly arbitrary. I wouldn't be so quick to discount Gemini as an unimportant sector, however; it was clearly important enough for Confed to fortify the border before widespread colonization began, placing a major military installation way off the beaten path. It would seem to me that the nerve center of the sector, overseeing the blockade of several systems and naval operations throughout the sector, would be pretty large. Working just with what we have, which admittedly isn't much, we can reasonably say that the upper sphere has about a hundred decks (judging from the number of windows). And, it's certainly possible that the majority of these windows correspond to the storeys-high windows seen in the background of the main concourse, although more likely these are only present around the equator. What it comes right down to, however, is what we don't know... which, as LOAF pointed out, is pretty much everything. Then again, how would we make educated guesses without discussion like this? __________________ Give me a kiss to build a dream on. . .

06-15-2005, 15:48	#23
BradMick Lieutenant Colonel Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Fort Rucker, AL Posts: 967	wow....100 meters or so? i did some comparison stuff, and based on cockpit interiors and putting a human sized figure relative to the privateer ships....there is NO way they are anywhere near 100 meters in size. more in the 30 or so meter range. in fact, for the tarsus, it came out to be about 36.8 meters. compare off the cockpits of the other craft, and you'll discover they're not going to be much bigger than that. thats my .02 in this argument/debate/whatever.

06-15-2005, 18:52	#24
Ptarmigan Captain Join Date: May 2005 Location: Arctic Posts: 405	Off topic, I wonder how large Perry is? I remember at the Fleet Tactics website saying that Ella is 4 kilometers and Sol Station is 10 kilometers. __________________ I Like Ptarmigans.