Wing Commander Secret Missions 2- Crusade

shinzon.hb

shinzon.hb

Veteran Spaceman
Ok, i hope i´ll find some help here because this game is really starting to frustrated me really hard.
Just finished Fierekka 4 (piece of cake with a pair of Rapiers, have blown 10 cats to kittie litter in this one) and was really excited about Fierekka 5 but i got to charon 1.
The losing path. And i dont understand why.
Is it because i ejected at Fierekka 3 after i was blown up 35 times either by the asteroids or the Hhriss at nav 2?
In the guide here on wcnews it says "Succes/Failure go to Firekka 4" and Firekka 4 says "Succes go to Firekka 5/Failure you lose"

So, why the hell did i got to Charon 1 and not to Fierekka 5?

And if it has to do with my eject on Firekka 3, how the hell can i beat this mission especially NAV 2? I got swarmed with missiles there -.-
 
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Yes, your problem was in Firekka 3. Missions in WC1 and WC2 are grouped into series of 2 to 4. Each time you change wingman, your missions in the entire previous series are evaluated to determine where you go next. So, both your missions with Knight determine where you go after Firekka 4.

As a general principle, you want to survive, land and get the "good" debriefing music in every mission in a series for that series to be victorious. However, it's a little more complicated than that. Sometimes this isn't enough, and sometimes you can get away with failing one mission in a series.

If you download WCSAV, you'll find a file called MISSIONS.WC. Open this in a text editor, and you'll find a lot of calculations involving "Victory Points". I don't know of any other source that confirms the numbers given in MISSIONS.WC, but I have always found it accurately predicts whether I win or lose a mission. For the series containing Firekka 3 and 4, it says you need 50 Victory Points, and here's where you earn them:

Firekka 3
Patrol: 3 Nav Points
N1: 3 Krant (Drakhai); N2: 3 Hhriss & Snakeir;
N3: 3 Gratha, 3 Krant (Drakhai)
VP: Nav 1 (5), Nav 2 (5), Nav 3 (5), Fralthi (10)
Total VP: 25, Winning VP: 25

Firekka 4
Defend two Exeters preparing to jump
N1: 3 Jalthi; N2: 4 Krant * Exeter; N3: 4 Dralthi * Exeter, 4 Salthi
VP: Nav 2 Exeter (12), Nav 3 Exeter (13)
Total VP: 25, Winning VP: 25

So, to "win" Firekka 3 you need to get in range of all the nav points and destroy the Fralthi. However, you can afterburn past the Hhriss and Snakeir if you want, as long as you still hit Nav 2.



That said, you want to learn to fight Hhriss and Snakeirs, since there are plenty more to come. Here's how I survive missiles in WC1 (and I've survived a lot of WC1).
  • It's easier to evade shots than evade missiles. Even if I'm on full shields, I try to evade every single shot fired at me.
  • I don't go out of my way to dodge missiles, but if I'm not currently drawing a bead on something and get the missile lock warning, I take a sharp turn on a random axis and afterburn. Actually, this is good evasive practice at any time you're not lined up on someone.
  • If I'm doing everything else right, a single missile hit won't fully wipe out my shields.
  • Where are those missiles coming from? They're probably coming from the Snakeir - it carries a massive load of them but it can only fire them if it has its nose towards you. Try to keep out of range while you fight the Hhriss, then stay behind the Snakeir as you attack its engines. The Snakeir has a high rate of turn, so don't get complacent here.
  • Ignore the advice about using your own missiles on capital ships. Use them on the heaviest fighters in a mission (in this case, the Hhriss), and whittle down the capital ships with your guns.
You still need good shooting and evasive skills to shoot the Hhriss before they shoot you.
  • While the Rapier can do 450 KPS, most of the time I find that's too fast, and stay at 400 KPS. It's still easy to evade at that speed, and aiming is much easier.
  • Their shields regenerate quickly, so try to use volleys: line up well, shoot until you run out of energy, then evade until your blaster is fully recharged.
  • Stay aware of which fighters are damaged, and attack the weakest.
  • If you can destroy the first without taking any damage, you should find that you and your wingman can keep the remaining two on the run.
 
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Ok. New problem. There is no Fralthi. I suppose i have to kill the Snakeir instead -.- This will be really going to frustrate me even further.
 
shinzon.hb said:
Ok. New problem. There is no Fralthi. I suppose i have to kill the Snakeir instead -.- This will be really going to frustrate me even further.
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Sorry, you're quite right. There is no Fralthi in the mission, and you have to destroy the Snakeir. This breaks the existing "rules" of patrol missions in Wing Commander, where you "win" by visiting all nav points, and may be chewed out for engaging the tougher capital ships.

You want to maximise your time practicing against the Hhriss, so use the "N" key to navigate to Nav 2. You'll trigger the Gratha encounter at Nav 3, but keep aimed at Nav 2 and afterburn. Resume autopilot as soon as the light tells you that you can.

Once you meet the Hhriss, feel free to use all your missiles. If you can just destroy one, you should find you can stay alive from then on. Make good use of this time - learn how much you need to lead the Hhriss when shooting from side on (a lot), and how much they evade (a lot). If you can get them down to one, spend some time just sitting on its tail, following its motions.

Incidentally, I just tested the feasibility of ordering Knight to attack the Snakeir while I distracted the Hhriss - I just kept turning and afterburning. I ended up orbiting the Snakeir like this, and eventually one of the Hhriss rammed it and exploded. This would have been good, except that the Snakeir started moving away rapidly. For a while I had it targetted with the range indicator showing, instead of a number, the words "TOO FAR", and then it vanished altogether.

I've seen this happen before - Wing Commander appears to have a rudimentary conservation of momentum system, but it's buggy. Sometimes when a fighter rams a capital ship, the capital ship gains more momentum than the fighter ever had.
 
I DID IT! You were right about the Hhriss, once one is down the rest is fairly easy to kill. But i nearly died again due to my stupid wingman. I ordered Knight to attack the snakeir. He acknowledged but while i was chasing the last Hhriss this idiot was also attacking the Hhriss und ran right into me, destroying my entire front armor. After destroying the Snakeir i went on to NAV 3 and attacked the Grathas there. I barely scrathed the first Gratha when Knight decided to retreat and leave me alone with 3 Grathas in an asteroid field. Lucky for me the Grathas retratet after i destroyed the first (probably a drakhai) then i moved to the claw and from there to NAV 1. I engaged the Krants to break their formation then pushed my afterburners a bit to get some distance and hit the navpoint. From there i wanted to head home but i realised to late that my target was nav 2. So i got to Nav 2 again and headed back to the TC from there. On half way home those Krants showed up again. Lucky for me they didnt engage. I was out of fuel so i probably would have lost that battle. Headed home at best speed and landed.
 
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Wow, that's an epic finish. The later games never quit duplicated that feeling of limping home in a Scimitar with no armor and seven different systems reporting damage...

Destroying an ace (and the SM2 Drakhai take the place of the WC1 aces) can indeed cause other Kilrathi to retreat. It's difficult to make this happen intentionally, so leave the Drakhai until last if you have a choice.

In WC1 and SM1, you can generally afterburn all you like in combat, as long as you don't waste it on cruising around. In SM2, your fuel supply becomes a serious limitation, and you have to start deciding during combat if you really need that burst of afterburner to successfully evade incoming fire.
 
I am now at Mission 10 (escorting a Drayman back to the claw). Thats a tough one. Dealing with 5 Krants in a stupid Dralthi can be realy annoying. At least, they are not firing that much on the Drayman.

#edit says: I did it. Wasn´t so tough after all. But i lost front and left armour and my shields were damaged. And it were only three Krants. They swarmed so badly during my last runs that i was sure there were 5.

Oh did i mention that i hate Grathas?
 
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Ok. I am stuck at 11 now. Any ideas how to defeat those stupid Grathas? Hunter mostly gets shot down in the first zone. And when he survives the initial encounter he is either fleeing like a coward or just get himself killed the moment i encounter the Grathas or the Jalthis.

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GOT IT! Damn this game is so intense. After defending the Claw i moved to Nav3 to get rid of the Jalthis and the Snakeir. Worked pretty well but the Jalthis managed to destroy my targeting computer so no more use for the IR and FF (and i preserved those for NAV2 -.-). Took down the Snakeir after that, then moved on to NAV2. In an intense battle i defeated the Grathas but didnt had much fuel left and then the Dralthis showed up. First Dralthi hit my fuel tanks -.- No more afterburner. Great, just great. But i managed to fight them of. Afterwards i destroyed the Ralari. Well, Hunter did. Then i headed back home and guess what. Dralthis. Fighting them without afterburner again. They took out half of my guns and my missiles (which were useless anyway) but i managed to defeat them as well. So i landed with a heavily crippled fighter (Front and rear armour gone, shields damaged, weapons mostly destroyed, targeting system off, accellerators destroyed, fuel tank hit, computer system damaged and no fuel left).

But you know what, as frustrating as this game is it just feels awesome to beat such a mission. Its like "F*ck you, game. I can beat everything you throw at me"
 
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shinzon.hb said:
Oh did i mention that i hate Grathas?
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Of the fighters in WC1 and SM1, I consider the Gratha the most troublesome. In-universe, everyone panics about the Jalthi and its massive set of guns, but it's easy to dodge. The Gratha is just a little better at aiming, and a little harder to destroy. In practice, this means that you can often split up Jalthi and destroy them one at a time, with Gratha do a much better job sticking together and ganging up on you.

shinzon.hb said:
Worked pretty well but the Jalthis managed to destroy my targeting computer so no more use for the IR and FF (and i preserved those for NAV2 -.-).
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Not that it should detract from your epic ride, but Friend-or-Foe missiles still work with your Target Track destroyed. You may get told that you need lock to fire an FF or DF, but this is a bug. This bug may also appear if you take damage and lose one or more missiles. Cycle through your weapons with the "w" key, and you should find your FF and DF missiles are working again.

I assume the logic is that FF missiles have their own target tracking, so damage to the launching ship doesn't matter. Missiles that require a designated target (HS, IR and torpedoes in Wing Commander 2) definitely don't work with your Target Track destroyed, as expected. Also, the Target Track never takes partial damage, the way some other components do. If you're told your Target Track has taken damage, it has been completely destroyed and will never be repaired.

Of course, with the state of your ship you may have taken damage to Communications too, so you might have launched an FF only to have it loop back into you. I can confirm that this happens just as Claw Marks warns it might.
 
shinzon.hb said:
Any advice how to defeat 4 Grathas in a Dralthi?
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You're in Corsair 1?

First, the mission designers a clearly trolling you when they give you a Dralthi for an escort mission. The Kilrathi know who you are anyway, and they certainly won't be fooled once the two Dralthi start escorting a Drayman. Maybe the marines should have got creative with somes papier-mâché, and remodelled their ship to look like a Dorkir.

Second, if you really get frustrated beyond the point of fun, you can eject through the remaining four missions. [Edit: except you can't eject from a Dralthi. Oops.] Once you get the cutscene of the marines disrupting the Sivar ceremony, the SM2 campaign is won.

But, you want to save those surviving marines, don't you? So, let's get to work.
  1. Mass driver guns have twice the rate of fire of lasers and neutrons. (Claw Marks specifically refers to them as "Gatling Mass Driver Cannon".) This means that you can get similar damage over time to a Rapier.
  2. But, where a Rapier can line up once and fire a single round of full guns, in the Scimitar and Dralthi you have to hold down the fire button while steering so your shots continue to hit.
  3. The Dralthi has its guns mounted close together, so either both shots will hit, or neither will. Aim well, and every individual bullet will count.
  4. Destroying heavy fighters - including those four Gratha - becomes a matter of firing long bursts so they all hit.
  5. On a good day, you can fire a single burst that punches right through shields and does some armor damage.
  6. On a bad day, your first burst won't get through shields. Just keep track of whose shields you chipped, and stay near them while you evade.
  7. Once you've used up your blaster energy, don't start shooting again until it's regenerated at least halfway. (I'm not sure, but it feels like the Dralthi blaster energy is uniquely slow to regenerate.)
  8. In most encounters the Kilrathi are grouped in pairs, and you can often go after the nearest pair and destroy one before the rest gang up on you. In this particular mission, the 4 Gratha start in a tight block, which is bad news. By the time you're lined up on one, the other three will all be shooting at you. You'll be tempted to stay on course and keep shooting. Don't take that risk, or you'll be hit by 3 sets of full guns at once.
  9. Feel free to fire both DFs at the Gratha. There's not much other use for them in this mission.
 
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Ok. Things went well so far and i am now in the winning path Charon 1. Any tipps on defeating the Grathas at NAV2? I tried to pull them away in groups. Engaging two of them, hit afterburners and lure them away from the other group but my stupid wingman disobeyed my orders and went straight at the second Ralari, triggering the second group as well. Guess what? Grathas kill Maniac and swarm me afterwards -.-
 
shinzon.hb said:
Ok. Things went well so far and i am now in the winning path Charon 1. Any tipps on defeating the Grathas at NAV2? I tried to pull them away in groups. Engaging two of them, hit afterburners and lure them away from the other group but my stupid wingman disobeyed my orders and went straight at the second Ralari, triggering the second group as well. Guess what? Grathas kill Maniac and swarm me afterwards -.-
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  1. As before, if Nav 2 is annoying you, autopilot there to begin with. On this map, you should reach it without any trouble.
  2. While I advise trying to divide and conquer enemy fighter groups, if they're on your radar, they're already "triggered" and flying towards you. All you've gained is a little time.
  3. In a Raptor firing full guns, you should be able to make use of that sliver of time by destroying one Gratha out of the first pair before the other two reach you.
  4. While Maniac replies "What?" to every communication, he will obey "Attack my target," and will never obey "Form on my wing" or "Return to base".
  5. When multiple Gratha are present, tell him to attack one of this. When you're down to one Gratha, send him after a Ralari to prevent friendly fire.
  6. The Gratha seem particularly prone to targetting Maniac. Exploit this to shoot the ones that are ignoring you, or taunt them.
  7. By putting Maniac in a Raptor, the mission designers are trolling you again. Did you ever get between Maniac and his target in Brimstone? Did you ever get a face full of mass drivers as a result? Did you ever wish he had some neutron guns too? Too bad, because now he does.
  8. At least they acknowledge how annoying this mission can be; you will earn an extra shiny fishing sinker for flying it well.
 
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DONE! I defeated the damn furballs once and for all. Got to NAV2 first, as you suggested and shot down the Grathas fairly quickly while they were busy chasing the useles Maniac. Made kitty litter out of the Ralaris and went on to NAV 3. Maniac destroyed one Krant, then went on to attack the Snakeir, while i was busy chasing another Krant and dodge the attacks of three others. Sadly the Snakeir managed to escape before i could blow this Krant apart. First i wanted to destroy the Snakeir after i get rid of first two Krants but with four Krants focussing on me it was nearly impossible. I went on to NAV 1 then. Maniac was still alive but guess what, he got shot down by the first Jalthi in Range -.- Ok, two Jalthis are a peace of cake but his death was so unnecessary. I hit NAV1, then headed to NAV2 again, because i obviously didnt toch it and then head back to the Claw.

The final mission was a peace of cake, even without a wingman. Maybe i just got lucky because two Cats (Dralthi) decided to end their miserable lifes by crushing into the Claw and i routed the last Salthi to prevent the Hhriss from showing up. I doubt that i could have taken out two Hhriss without missles and without a wingman, before they were able to destroy the Claw. But in the end i doesnt matter. I won the campaign an im damn happy about it.

Thanks for the help. I guess i couldnt have done this without your tipps.
Now i can focus on finishing the Wing Commander 2 campaign. Still stuck at Mission 16, recovering the datapod from the destroyed courier ship, because i am to dumb to blew up a capship with a Bomber.
 
shinzon.hb said:
Thanks for the help. I guess i couldnt have done this without your tipps.
Now i can focus on finishing the Wing Commander 2 campaign. Still stuck at Mission 16, recovering the datapod from the destroyed courier ship, because i am to dumb to blew up a capship with a Bomber.
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You're welcome. It's helped me appreciate just how much variety WC1 had in its mission design. Slight variations in Kilrathi fighter placement or targetting had a lot of influence on how each encounter played out.

I suggest starting a thread with a new title for WC2. I'm not very good at it myself, despite my WC1 experience. However, for your particular problem, here's some advice.

Bombing Theory
  1. Capital ship flak barrages can destroy torpedoes. You need to launch close enough for your torpedo to survive this barrage.
  2. Torpedo explosions are large, and can destroy your ship. You need to launch from far enough away to escape this.
  3. Capital ship anti-matter guns are deadly. You need to lock and launch before taking too many of these to the face.
Bombing Practice
  1. Use the F8 key to toggle the missile camera before launching torpedoes. This will give you feedback on whether they're surviving the flak or not. (Your ship remains under control in all views.)
  2. Start your torpedo run by running outside flak range and waiting until your shields are fully regenerated.
  3. Approach to just within lock range (around 11,000 km), then come to a full stop. (The backspace key sets your speed to zero instantly.)
  4. Lock on with the L key and wait for half to two thirds of your torpedo lock.
  5. Throttle up fully and approach the target. (There is no instant key for this.)
  6. If you time this right, you'll get full lock around 4,000 to 3,000 km. Launch your torpedo, then turn sharply away.
  7. Admire the missile camera as your torpedo finds its target - or, if it doesn't, try to work out what went wrong.
  8. Repeat steps 2 to 7 until your target is destroyed (or your ship, whichever comes first).
You'll take at least one hit from anti-matter guns, possibly two. More than that, and you need to reduce the time spent waiting during step 4. You can throttle up and try to dodge them, but turn too far and you'll lose torpedo lock, forcing you to start over. Anti-matter guns are also quite inaccurate. If you're already damaged, break off from shots aimed straight towards you, even if you lose lock. Persist, and eventually you'll fluke a torpedo run where the shots all pass wide of you.

I don't know if this his proven, but I think capital ships can fire more anti-matter shots from the front. However, approaching from the sides or back is hard, because they have plenty of time to turn and face you during step 4.

The Broadsword is a fascinating ship, with nothing like it anywhere else in Wing Commander. I find I cause more damage with turrets than its front guns, partially because the Kilrathi make no effort to evade them. It also requires a lot of planning. When I mess up in a Broadsword, I usually have about 15 seconds where I know I'm going to die, but it's too late to do anything about it.

The Sabre, when you get to fly it, is very different. It has paper-thin shields, but also has afterburners. This gives you much more control over which angle your approach from, makes step 4 hairier, and makes step 6 much faster.
 
The Broadsword is slow, but compared to the enemies it faces, it has the strongest shields and armor of any flyable craft in the whole Wing Commander series. It can take a few hits, as long as you don't get too complacent.
 
There is a trick that makes bombing even easier. Normally in order to gain a lock you are at the border of the flak distance. However, if you press the key to cycle through the available ships (F12 ?) until you get the capship and then press F1 you can gain it into your target rectangle and therefore get a lock well outside of flak randge...
 
cff said:
There is a trick that makes bombing even easier. Normally in order to gain a lock you are at the border of the flak distance. However, if you press the key to cycle through the available ships (F12 ?) until you get the capship and then press F1 you can gain it into your target rectangle and therefore get a lock well outside of flak randge...
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Neat glitch. The key you're thinking of for cycling through ships to view is F9.
 
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