Which WC game engine ... ?

PopsiclePete

PopsiclePete

Mission programmer
... source code would you like to be released ? And what for ? Making Armada run under Win95 and use TCP/IP ? Adding systems/ships/factions in the original Privateer ? Some people already have nice ideas, thake this one for instance:


Here's a quote from Matrix in the Editing chat room posted February 13, 2000 20:02
On each picture the small one is the original as extracted by WCNAV, all the others (except one) are x2. Go ahead, pick a Ferret...any Ferret. =)
ferret.jpg

Right column show use of a median filter. Middle row uses bilinear filtering (interpolation) ie. the type most 3D accelerators do these days. Bottom right was a test of scaling x4, using the median filter, then scaling back down to x2. Only marginally better.
ferret2.jpg

Left side going top to bottom: Nearest point sampling, bilinear interpolation, bilinear with median. The big one is x3 and still not too bad.
hornet.jpg

From top: Original, x2, x2 bilinear filtered. The bottom one is a weird combination but was neccessary due to the poor quality of the original. It's a 50% screen of the bilinear filtered version over the the median version.

So what was the point of all that? Just to show there's more than one way to skin a ferret. =) Actually some experiments to see what a WC1/2 engine would render like on todays harwdare...something I'd like to sink my teeth into if Jumper ever extracts the source codes from EA/Origin. We can but hope.
Click to expand...

Would it be possible to use some new 3D technologie on some old 2D game ? Unlikely, but the possibility is there, why not give it a try ? There are many other wonderful things talented people in the WC community could do. Have an idea ?

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PopsiclePete

The WC Source Code Release Project needs YOU !

[This message has been edited by PopsiclePete (edited March 03, 2000).]
 
(Obligatory Blair Witch joke)

That said, they already tried and failed an effort to develop a TCP/IP Armada...

If you had the original 3D models (well, WC1 didn't have 3d models) you could probably put them in a current day 3D engine.

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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG

Bombardez les Ptitard!
 
Of course I am well aware that using 3D techniques on 2D isn't something we're about to see. I am no expert but I think there's a possibility to lure the 3D card so it considers the entire screen as a big texture for a 3D pligon (lets say... a flat rectangle of the size of the screen for instance...).

Anyway, the objective of this thread is not to verify this peticular idea but to GATHER ideas and people over the project.

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PopsiclePete

The WC Source Code Release Project needs YOU !
 
Erm, you miss my point, I'm saying that you don't *need* to figure out how to use 2D models -- Origin *has* perfectly viable 3D models of all the WC2+ ships. To make the bitmaps they first make a model in 3D studio, and then take shots of it in different positions -- these models still exist.

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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG

Bombardez les Ptitard!
 
Ok, I have a question, I know this might be a little off subject, but how hard would it be to get the 3D models of the Confed and Cat ships that aren't already done, of the WC 1 ships, and re-make WC 1 with the WCP engine? I know there are some guys out there that can do some damn good modeling, and like you just said LOAF, some of the ships are already done, it'd just be getting them thats the hard part
smile.gif
Also, what Illegal issues would this raise, if any? Would it be considered a WCP addon on, like a WC 1 mission pack, or a copyright enfringement and rights for a lawsuit?

Quarto, while I agree that getting the SC is one thing, and getting the models is another, but if the WC fans/designers/modelers/ out there had a good motive and influence like a big, worthwhile project like that, I think we could get enough people to get the models done and get a really good add on pack, or a complete, fan-made redo of the older classics (don't hate me for wanting the graphics of WCI butchered, I just want to be able to run the stuff in Win9x without having to skip around DOS like a God damn brainic which I'm not.

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umm LOAF, I'm not sure even if they still DO have those 3DS models, that they're of sufficiently low polycount(anything over say 1,000 would be unacceptable for a fighter) to make em feasible for use(most likely why there was a huge design change from "round" to "blocky" ships between 2 and 3), and judging from which, most of the capships seem to have an excess of 10,000+ polys.(I dunno but I'm yet to see a game rendering engine that can do that many and not make everything a slide show).
 
You miss my point, Fireball SC. I would love to get those models. But first we need enough of that influence you mentioned, to actually get anything from Origin.
Jumper would like to see about 500 names supporting the letter to OSI... I think that 500 is probably too much to expect, but given the fact that this ChatZone has 200+ users...

Nob: I doubt that they would've deleted them. And as for the poly count, only a few ships have really rounded bits. I'm certain that those could be simplified and still look good, if the right texture was used. That's how they got the Armada models to look (IMHO) better than WC 3 stuff.

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The WC Source Code Release Project needs you!
 
Good textures only help to a point..and only then in lower resolutions...higher reses make it harder to "get away" with using textures for certain details.
 
True... everything has its limits. But the point is, until we have the source code and/or models in our grubby little hands, we won't know, will we?
smile.gif
So, if you haven't already done so, go and check out the link below.

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The WC Source Code Release Project needs you!
 
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Nob Akimoto said:
umm LOAF, I'm not sure even if they still DO have those 3DS models, that they're of sufficiently low polycount(anything over say 1,000 would be unacceptable for a fighter) to make em feasible for use(most likely why there was a huge design change from "round" to "blocky" ships between 2 and 3), and judging from which, most of the capships seem to have an excess of 10,000+ polys.(I dunno but I'm yet to see a game rendering engine that can do that many and not make everything a slide show).
Click to expand...

Actually, the reason for the design style changes is due to the fact that WC2 used traditional pre-drawn animations for displaying the ships at specific viewing angles (why, in certain cases, the image of the ship/base/whatever 'wobbles' a bit, primarily in Privateer/RF), whereas WC3 and later actually rendered the ships on the fly (no pun intended) as part of the game engine, but couldn't handle the curves very well.

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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild
 
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Uh... I think that's what he said, Death
smile.gif
. Of course, he used different words, but it all comes down to the same thing - WC 1 and 2 (and of course Priv) designs were far more complex since they were pre-drawn; and for this reason, they couldna be used in later WCs.

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The WC Source Code Release Project needs you!
 
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Yeah that's what I meant. I guess I could've worded it a bit better....

BTW A Rapier G model(for the XWA WCTC) had about 200 quadrangle faces(400 or so polys) for the "base" and 434 faces(800 polys or so) for the "exterior"(high detail model with visible pilot and such). The Rapier G is probably one of the more simple ones..I think an early morningstar mesh had about 300 some odd in the base...without a whole lotta detail....(you can see where this would head).
 
Fireball SC said:
Ok, I have a question, I know this might be a little off subject, but how hard would it be to get the 3D models of the Confed and Cat ships that aren't already done, of the WC 1 ships, and re-make WC 1 with the WCP engine? I know there are some guys out there that can do some damn good modeling, and like you just said LOAF, some of the ships are already done, it'd just be getting them thats the hard part
smile.gif
.
Click to expand...

Well, HCl and other fans (including a bit of myself) already worked on such a conversion. The problem is, as always, to get people to help. I am willing to revive the project if some people want to continue the work... it's all there, look at the Wing Commander 1 - Conversion Project. You may note some well-known WC fans in the credits section such as Thomas Bruckner, Locke, Tiger_Shark (maker of Vega Strike) and many other people that seems to be very busy these days
frown.gif


But if you haven't already, go sign the petition ( Jumper@wcescrp.cjb.net ) for the WC Source Code Release Project !

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PopsiclePete


[This message has been edited by PopsiclePete (edited March 07, 2000).]
 
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At last count, 30-odd names. But we have not heard from Jumper for some time; undoubtedly this number has now increased... you did send him an e-mail, Iceman?
smile.gif
You'd better have, anyway
smile.gif
.

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The WC Source Code Release Project needs you!
 
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I am. But the only thing I'd be good for is voice-overs. I don't know any programming.
frown.gif


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The time is near.
There are still quite a few days remaining.

I don't care for fame, power or money...
I just want to FIGHT!
-Sanosuke Sagara
 
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