Where are WC4 weapons in prophecy?

[Yue Zhao]

Where are the WC4 weapons (Dragon, Bearcat, Flash-pack, Cloaking Device, ¡­) in prophecy?
Why not Confed use Black Lance force weapons instead of Hellcat and other merely standard weapons?

By the way, where are Catscratch and Sosa in prophecy? And will Blair be back in the next WC game?

 

[Death]

In order...

Dragon (really called the "Lance"... see the novelization) was never mass-produced, and many of those made were destroyed during the Incident. In addition to their matter/antimatter powerplants making them expensive, there's also the consideration of where their reputation came from (terror attacks to instigate a war, including the GenSelect strike in Telemon). Not a good PR move when Confleet has to rely on a fickle and money-stingy Great Assembly for their funding.

Besides, the Lance is outclassed by both the Panther in most categories, and by the Vampire in all categories, both without the mucho expensive M/A powerplant.

The Bearcat... well, WCP is set like 8 years after WC4. AFAIK, Origin has never used a ship design that old (in the game's timeline) in games.

Flashpak? Terror weapon unsuited to a peacetime Confleet, and useless on modern (WCP) warships. Hell, it was starting to get useless as of WC4, even; you couldn't just slap the FP onto the armored outer hull of the Vesuvius, but had to launch it at the relatively unarmored flight deck.

Cloaking device is in existence as of WCP, only used primarily for reconnaisance (sp?) Excalibers. Note that it didn't do those same craft much good against the bugs 6 out of 7 times. (ICIS manual) Even not counting the bug situation, cloaks aren't all that terribly effective anyhow, given the various anti-cloak technologies out there (anti-cloak gun from the Armada add-on Proving Grounds, optics from the Dragon, and even special modes for regular sensor packages, like in Fleet Action, when Hunter was in a Sabre stalking a Strakha).

Given the origins and actions of the Project (the only thing Tolwyn referred to it as... "Black Lance" wasn't the name of the organization), not using their equipment (or at least the obvious stuff like Lance, FP, GenSelect, etc) isn't terribly surprising. Besides, the Hellcat didn't show up in WCP.

As for Catscratch and Sosa, elsewhere.

Blair is missing, and presumed dead. (WCSO fiction) His return is rather unlikely, at best.

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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild

 

[Earthworm]

Where are the WC4 weapons (Dragon, Bearcat, Flash-pack, Cloaking Device, ¡­) in prophecy?
Why not Confed use Black Lance force weapons instead of Hellcat and other merely standard weapons?

By the way, where are Catscratch and Sosa in prophecy? And will Blair be back in the next WC game?

Where did you see the Hellcat in Prophecy?
Sosa, is probably still in the UBW, and Catscratch is either dead, or also in UBW.

No one knows if Blair will be back, but it's very unlikely.

Confed doesen't use Bearcats and Dragons because the Bearcat is outclased in every area by the Vampire, and the Dragon is in almost every way outclased by the Vamp. Also, since the Dragon has a power plant like the ones on capships, they are VERY, VERY expensive to build. The Black Lance only had 40 of those fighters themselves.

Also, a weapon that can *see through* cloack was develped in WC Armada, so cloacks probably don't have much use now days, the Flash Pack, is not only a Black Lance weapon but it won't work on the ships in Prophecy. Don't forget that the Vesuvius class carriers could only be destroyed if you fired the Flash Pack inside it's hangar, and 10 years after that most ships are advanced enough to whithstand the FS.

Confed wouldn't use BL weapons for many reasons, for one, the BL were murderers. How do you think Confed would look if they started using weapons used by them?

 

[Earthworm]

Besides, the Lance is outclassed by both the Panther in most categories, and by the Vampire in all categories, both without the mucho expensive M/A powerplant.

Can't agree with you about the Panther. The Dragon has better armor, and much better shields. It's top speed is better, it carries almost as many missiles as well as two torps, and it has better guns. Also, the cloack, though can be detected, can still be of some use. And lets don't forget the jump dirve which the Panther lacks, and the unlimited AB's.

The Bearcat... well, WCP is set like 8 years after WC4. AFAIK, Origin has never used a ship design that old (in the game's timeline) in games.

Sure they did. There's the Ecal in the Prophecy manual, and the Excal, T-bolt and the Vesuvius classes are all back in SO, and except the Vesuvius which is about 8 years old, the other ships are at least 14/15 years old.

Cloaking device is in existence as of WCP, only used primarily for reconnaisance (sp?) Excalibers. Note that it didn't do those same craft much good against the bugs 6 out of 7 times. (ICIS manual) Even not counting the bug situation, cloaks aren't all that terribly effective anyhow, given the various anti-cloak technologies out there (anti-cloak gun from the Armada add-on Proving Grounds, optics from the Dragon, and even special modes for regular sensor packages, like in Fleet Action, when Hunter was in a Sabre stalking a Strakha).

Yeah, but detecting the Strakha the way Hunter did it wasn't exactly easy. Also, the fact that 6 of the 7 Excals didn't come back doesen't mean the bugs could see through the cloack. The fighters could have disengaged the cloacker to pick up some artifacts, which was a part of theri missions. And one Excal armed with lasers isn't realy a match for the bug ships. As far as we know the Nephilim may not even have cloacking technology.

 

[Yue Zhao]

I made a mistake, I actually meant ¡®Tighershark¡¯.

Sorry, I haven¡¯t played the WC Armada, so I am not an expert on anti-cloaking system. But I remembered in WC4, Blair talked with Melek about the ¡®high-tech¡¯ paybacks (cloaking system). I assumed that the anti-cloaking technology was not very effective at that time (If it was, then there was no need for Blair to ask Kilrathi to help the Border World.) Although the ¡®cloaked¡¯ ships can be detected by the optics equipment on the Dragon, they can at least disappear on your radar.

 

[Earthworm]

I made a mistake, I actually meant ¡®Tighershark¡¯.

But the T-shark is much better than the Hellcat, and Confed isn't using them all the time, it's just one of the lighter fighters Confed has.

Sorry, I haven¡¯t played the WC Armada, so I am not an expert on anti-cloaking system.

Neither did I, but if you hang around here for a while you'll learn some stuff.

But I remembered in WC4, Blair talked with Melek about the ¡®high-tech¡¯ paybacks (cloaking system). I assumed that the anti-cloaking technology was not very effective at that time (If it was, then there was no need for Blair to ask Kilrathi to help the Border World.) Although the ¡®cloaked¡¯ ships can be detected by the optics equipment on the Dragon, they can at least disappear on your radar.

Well, the UBW aren't realy that advanced, and Pliers needed help mostly with getting his cloack to work, not as much with getting something to detect cloacked ships.

 

[Death]

Earthworm sez:

And lets don't forget the jump dirve which the Panther lacks, and the unlimited AB's.

The Panther is jump capable, actually. We just don't see it being used. As for unlimited AB, you can get that in the Panther by using autoslide. (Also, to be technically accurate the Lance's AB isn't unlimited. You can run out of go-juice if you afterburn long enough (like chasing down that coward Seether in the final fight in Sol); it's just replenished by the scoops when you're not afterburning.)

In regards to your other comments, apparently I didn't think things through far enough. My mistake.

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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild

 

[Cpl Hades]

There's a picture of Panthers jumping on the WCP map, the rear of the European WCP box, and prolly a few other places besides.

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Barrie "Cpl Hades" Almond
balmond@wcnews.com

 

[Earthworm]

The Panther is jump capable, actually.

My bad, forgot about that.

As for unlimited AB, you can get that in the Panther by using autoslide.

But it isn't nearly as effective. You can just fly straight and turn your ship but you can't realy fight.

(Also, to be technically accurate the Lance's AB isn't unlimited. You can run out of go-juice if you afterburn long enough

I know that, but it takes a lot of time for them to run out, much more than for a standard fighter that's using AB's.

(like chasing down that coward Seether in the final fight in Sol); it's just replenished by the scoops when you're not afterburning.)

You have to chase after Seether?

[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited March 05, 2000).]

 

[Quarto]

About the Bearcat: Well, like Earthworm said, old designs were reused. But hey, maybe the Bearcat got cancelled after the whole BL affair - entirely possible that the Senate, shocked as it was by Tolwyn's actions, would have frozen the production of the Bearcat. This, of course, wouldna make any sense - but its politics; it doesn't have to make sense

. Governments can be very fickle - as Avro found out when they developed the Arrow.
Alternatively, the Bearcat - being a sort of middle step between '81 ships and '69 ships, could be in use at more important locations, such as the Confed-Kilrathi border in Enigma. After all, while Vega and Sol Sectors (where SO takes place) are exceedingly important, they would have been considered safe until the bugs started showing up, and by then it was too late - hence the use of '69 ships rather than the top of the line '81 ships, or the in-between '73 Bearcats.

Of course, all that is pure speculation, and I'm certain there are hundreds of reasons why the above would be completely incorrect

.

In regards to the Dragon - it was indeed a great new design. Very powerful, and probably quite economic when it comes to fuel (but not when it comes to the pricetag

).
However, it should be noted that the US could have been the first to launch a satellite into space.
What the hell has this to do with Dragons? Simple. They could've launched the satellite had they used an existing rocked design - but this rocket design had been derived from the WWII German V-2 rocket. Thus, it was decided to develop a new design from scratch, for the very obvious reason of public image. And this is what happened to the Dragon. Who knows, maybe there are still five or six Dragons out there in Confed research bases? Or maybe there's even a new fighter design based on the Dragon, which cannot be put into production due to the Dragon's history? Again, pure speculation, and almost totally baseless

.

Oh, and I think "unlikely" is an overestimate of Blair's chances to come back. Try, "when hell freezes over"

.

Why do we need pictures of jumping Panthers? Maniac & Co. jump in during the Comm Relay Station mission (when Blair's kidnapped). That should be proof enough

.
BTW, don't all WCP ships have jump drives?

 

[Earthworm]

BTW, don't all WCP ships have jump drives?

?? Where'd you get that. The Vampires and Panthers have them, but AFAWK the others don't. The Wasp doesen't have one, because then it would be imposible for us to be stranded in that one mission in Prophecy. We know that from alien ships the Devil Ray has a jump drive, and in the first mission in SO, the Morays also jump out.

 

[ArMyDeMoN]

The wasp doesn't have a jump drive because it is a defensive ship and is usually launched in scramble situations wehn enemy bombers are closing on the carrier.

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There's plenty of room in this town for the both of us.

 

[Earthworm]

[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited March 06, 2000).]

 

[Death's Head]

Do you have to be so friendly. I think he said that to point out that that might be the reason why it is perhaps the only ship in WCP that doesn't jump. The Piranhas do, Panthers do, Devastators do, Vampires do, Shrikes? probably. Who knows about the t-shark.

In the old days jump drives were large and needed a lot of energy to operate. WC2 ships couldn't handle the power demands so they used up muucho fuel for every jump.

The Piranha seems to be able to jump multiple times. And the bugs ships I'm guessing from SO play, are capable of doing so as well, except for the Squid, perhaps.

Besides, if you can build a jump capable Ferret, as you often point out, you can jump almost anything.

 

[Earthworm]

,

[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited March 06, 2000).]

 

[Death's Head]

WOW, ho the hell told you that the Piranha and the Devastator have jump drives? The Shrike as well as the T-shark, well, no one knows if they can jump.

Who the hell told you the Panthers don't jump??:razz:

Casey told me the Piranha jumps. I made an inferance based on Casey and Maestro's little race bearing Piranhas.

Several times is often, yes, compared to the Broadsword which could make two jumps and needing to refuel.

 

[Earthworm]

,

[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited March 06, 2000).]

 

[ArMyDeMoN]

How do you jump with the ships? can you do it manually or is it automatic?

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There's plenty of room in this town for the both of us.

 

[ChrisReid]

In some games hitting the J key will jump in some missions on some ships.. but it's only for special times and it's very rarely used by us in Wing Commander.

 

[Raider]

There's a picture of Panthers jumping on the WCP map, the rear of the European WCP box, and prolly a few other places besides

I think you also see a few in the end of WCP while the credits are rolling.