WC3 novel...

Dralthi5

Spaceman
Okay, I'll try to keep from saying stupid things this time around...

Anyway, I've been re-reading the WC3 novel and a few things have come up that I question.

Well, first off, there's the total lack of the Space Force. Instead, we have this Navy Flight Corps thing.

On page 46, Blair says to Hobbes, "You really think a human would spy for the Kilrathi?" Um, has he forgotten Jazz and Minx?

On page 24, during Blair and Maniac's first meeting on the Victory, it says, "But seeing Marshall after so many years..." Last time I checked, they last worked together about two years ago during SO2.

Also, when did Hobbes serve with Blair on the Claw? And when could Tolwyn have taken over command of the Claw from Thorne and Blair been there to see it?

Don't want to be a "nay-sayer", but these are just a few things I was curious about and thought we could discuss.
 

gryphon

Spaceman
This is EXACTLY the reason I never bought the Lance thing... or anything else in the novels based on the games, the Blair novels in other words.

Apparently, according to LOAF, there was a Navy Flight Corps at least early in the war (explaining Tolwyn flying fighters being an Ensign)

As far as humans spying for the kilrathi, Did Bill FOrstchen forget that in his last novel, Fleet Action, he had that senator what's her name work for the Kilrathi in getting us all to swallow the ceasefire?

About Blair and Maniac, wasn't there already a thread about their mysterious relationship? I think it's safe to say that again, I pick WC2 over the oversight of Mr F...

Hobbes and Blair met for the first time on the bridge of the Concordia, unless of course You mean GARAHL Nar Hhallas, the Kilrathi which was supposed to defect to the Claw in WCA (I don't think they ever made that one though)
 

RATM

Spaceman
Originally posted by Dralthi5
Okay, I'll try to keep from saying stupid things this time around...
On page 46, Blair says to Hobbes, "You really think a human would spy for the Kilrathi?" Um, has he forgotten Jazz and Minx?
Maybe he is talking about right away?

On page 24, during Blair and Maniac's first meeting on the Victory, it says, "But seeing Marshall after so many years..." Last time I checked, they last worked together about two years ago during SO2.
two years is a long time, did it ever happen you mis-estimated an event and when it occured? sometimes ill say a year and it would be only a month or two, maybe he didnt really think about it?
Also, when did Hobbes serve with Blair on the Claw? And when could Tolwyn have taken over command of the Claw from Thorne and Blair been there to see it?
To my understanding hobbes did not serve with blair on the claw, but he did make an appearance in one of the SO's (i dont know for sure) but they officially met and worked together in WC2.

Tolwyn took command of the claw in the SO's, im pretty sure of that
Don't want to be a "nay-sayer", but these are just a few things I was curious about and thought we could discuss.
no comment :D


anyways *awaits being corrected by loaf our god*
 

gryphon

Spaceman
Well, I suppose it COULD mean that while Ralgha surrendered his ship Blair was serving on the Claw, and according to Shotglass Ralgha was lead by security guards through the Claw's pilot country. Hence Hobbes and Blair technically were both on the claw back in '55, but they never actually met.

I always thought it was sort of dumb to have Tolwyn in command of the TC after WC1 was over. How exactly did he escape being blown to smithereens?

Off-topic. I jusr realized that WC3 starts around 2669.220. Not even one mention of Confed Day through the entire game?
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Tolwyn wasn't in command of the TC in '56... he commanded her for a short time in '54-55 (for a time during WIng Commander 1). Captain Thorn had returned to command Tiger's Claw when she was destroyed.

The Space Force is mentioned by name several times in the Wing Commander 3 novel -- I'm not really sure what you're talking about. As an aside, regarding the issue of Space Forces and Navy ranks, I think a good explanation for the change (which apparently happened between the movie and WC1) is that in '54 Confed switched from the Space Forces as being part of the Navy to giving them their own branch -- much as we created the modern Air Force (rather than the Army Air Corps) after the value of aircraft in combat was proven.

Presumably, Blair met Ralgha while he was on the Tiger's Claw. You are correct that Garahl never defected in Wing Commander Academy... the fact that he is Hobbes must then be ignored. :)

Jazz and Minx are certainly special cases -- and it's questionable as to whether or not they can be said to have been spying for the Kilrathi. The Society of the Mandarins was trying to defeat the Kilrathi, but in a completely different way... as for Senator Jamison, it's almost *certainly* not common knowledge that she was a spy -- in fact, it's not even known whether or not she's ever proven to be a spy by Confed (in other words, *we* know she's a spy, the Joint Chiefs *suspected* she was a spy, but Blair and Hobbes have no idea...)

I would certainly agree that two years can be considered 'all those years' ago. The phrase would make sense in greeting an old friend who you haven't seen for two years...

Confederation Day: WC3 was, of course, made before the idea of Confederation Day existed -- I'm not really sure *why* everyone is so darned in the WC mythos being created beforehand -- it wasn't, that's how it is, live with it. <G>

And stop saying '*moot*'.
 

gryphon

Spaceman
Senator Jamison... I am stupid. Of course Blair wouldn't have known... I am actually quite disappointed in myself...

About Confed Day, it IS really hard to determine how much existed and how much did not exist, especially for those of us who do not have the original manuals and such, I also, for instance, lack End Run and so can't use that book as a reference... As far as I recall, the McAuliffe engagement was quite accurately reproduced in the CM manual, so I conjectured it would include the mention of Confed Day...

Also, in CM, the 2639 engagement is said to be in Enyo, whereas in VS it has mysteriously been moved to McAuliffe again... (the one with the raptors and the porcupine mines being detonated by remote), but I shall in this post refrain from using the forbidden m-word *lol*

EDIT: LOAF, if Confed switched to the use of Space Force as a separate armed force in 2654, what Academy does that put Blair and Maniac in? The Naval Academy?

[Edited by gryphon on 05-17-2001 at 18:15]
 

RFBurns

Spaceman
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nep Parth


And for the other topic...the games and the novels DON'T contraindict each other, though. So, your argument is moot and irrelevant.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Source of *moot*

RFB
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Jamison wasn't a senator... <G> You're thinking of Senator More -- who wasn't a spy, just a corrupt senator.

Action Stations was published in winter, 1998, and it introduced the idea of Confederation Day -- before that, the McAuliffe stories hadn't mentioned it. (I remember reading Action Stations during a series of Holiday science lectures... which they broadcast on TV... and I taped... so I have tapes of myself in the audience reading Action Stations instead of listening to the lecture...).

The general assumption is that the Kilrathi attacked both McAuliffe and Enyo in '39.

They went to the Naval Academy on Hilthros -- but the Academy series isn't *actually* about that Academy... they've already graduated and gone through flight school.
 

gryphon

Spaceman
I always read the Nights Dawn Trilogy... I actually have fond memories of my professor walking up to me in mid lecture and saying... "Reality Dysfunction? Yeah, good one.. I read it a few years back. You should try "Hyperion" by Dan Simmonds..." and then continued on... *lol*
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
The Society of the Mandarins was trying to defeat the Kilrathi, but in a completely different way...
Eh? I believe Tolwyn said they moved from misguided pacifism to active collaboration, or something along those lines. I know one of the other pilots (Downtown?) said that the original Mandarins worked to defeat their enemies by converting them to their way of life, but I don't see how the Society of Mandarins (heh, heh, oranges!) were doing the same.

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
...so I have tapes of myself in the audience reading Action Stations instead of listening to the lecture...
Darn, that must be embarrassing. :)
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
I am aware of that. I am Chinese myself. I am surrounded by mostly other Chinese... although they're more like Hong Kongers than Chinese. :(
 

Supdon3

Kal-El
Originally posted by Wedge009
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
The Society of the Mandarins was trying to defeat the Kilrathi, but in a completely different way...
Eh? I believe Tolwyn said they moved from misguided pacifism to active collaboration, or something along those lines. I know one of the other pilots (Downtown?) said that the original Mandarins worked to defeat their enemies by converting them to their way of life, but I don't see how the Society of Mandarins (heh, heh, oranges!) were doing the same.

It happened in human history. Im not sure the exact names for the two sides but I believe there were barbarians that invaded Europe taking it from the Romans. But the people who were taken over slowly began to have their values and beliefs take over and we have the beginnings of the Europe we have today. Was it the anglos and the saxons?
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
Possibly. I'm not much of a historian, but were they Vikings? I don't know, I've probably been watching/reading too many Asterix shows/comics. :)
 

Supdon3

Kal-El
No, i dont think so. Vikings were perfectly civilized compared to these barbarians. If you watch Gladiator you can see the kinds of people they were. They sure made quite a comeback:)
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
The Mandarin belief was that the war was unwinnable on a military level, so that it would be best for mankind to allow the Kilrathi to win, and then to change them from within...
 

gryphon

Spaceman
Considering Adam (his real name?)'s success with Vakka and the Baron, I think the rather weak Kilrathi psychology over eons would have caved in to our beliefes, rather like Rome which crucified Christ and 500 years later worshipped him...
 

redwolf

Spaceman
BAH! You uneducated bafoons!!!

The original Mandarins were the collective name given to the wealthy bureaucrats during Imperial China. However around the turn of the last millenium (circa 1000-1300), the Mongol 'hordes' invaded China. Seeing that they couldn't defeat them, the Chinese decided that they should convert these 'savages' to the Chinese way of life.

In fact it was so successful one could argue that Chinese civilisation thrived during this time!

Re Moot:

Moot: noun; 1) assembly, as in the 'moot courts' of old England; 2) debateable, 'it is a moot point'; 3) raise for discussion

:)
 
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