Tolwyn : Multiple Personalities Disorder

I was mistaken and confused, I guess. Didn't they describe Tolwyn as looking angry or disheveled?
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Nope. Here's the section about Tolwyn:

Blair noted Paladin prominently seated among the Terran representatives, and near him was Admiral Tolwyn. The court of inquiry found the admiral blameless in the loss of the Behemoth, and he had returned to active service just in time to be a part of the protracted negotiations. Blair thought it was fitting, somehow, that Tolwyn played a role in the final triumph. Though he never agreed with the man's style or motivations, Admiral Geoff Tolwyn was a central figure in the Confederation resistance throughout the war, and it was only right that he should see it through to the very end.

As for the rest of this discussion, I don't think y'all are giving Tolwyn the proper credit. He's one of the most fleshed out, three-dimensional characters in the Wing Commander universe -- to simply see him as simply an evil villain is cheap.

Tolwyn's tragic flaw is that he's always believed he knows best. From telling off More at his graduation to his suicide, Tolwyn's entire career has been alternating praise and damnation solely because he's done what he thinks is right. And we'll applaud him when it agrees with is -- he went against orders to save Tarawa because his ideals would let him do no less... and we'll demonize him when we think it was wrong -- from believing cloaks can't exist to beleving mankind had to be readied for another war. But that's what made him a great and realistic character.
 
I doubt that Tolwyn had to go save the Tarawa because of his ideals. I think he was on a power trip the whole time.

I don't Tolwyn has any ideas.

Your right though, he did think that he knew better. Always. Tolwyn always knew better. People like that should have been bounced from the Academy, or, at the least, kept from Command Positions. It's dangerous to put someone who thinks he knows better then his commander in charge. You can almost expect them to disobey orders.

By the time Tolwyn was fiddling with the Behemoth, you'd have think that the Confederation would have learned not to put people like him in charge of anything important that they wanted done precisely.

I have a hard time beliving that the politicians just sat by and watched Tolwyn do whatever the hell he felt like, they're usually more picky then that.

And when he became an Admiral...well I had a hard time with all of that. I loved seeing him get spiked by the marine, having his sword broken. I loved that he was the one who led that second attack, he deserved it.

Note that he didn't really give a damn about the Tarawa the second time, just his nephew. I think Tolwyn shouldn't have been giving the privlidge of having his own life taken.

I'm reminded of a line in WC4:

"He wished spacing was still legal punishment."

I think death was to good for him.


On a side note, he IS one of the most fleshed out character in WC. The only other character we see consistantly exhibiting the same traits in all the books and games is Maniac...and, let's not go there.
 
I doubt that Tolwyn had to go save the Tarawa because of his ideals. I think he was on a power trip the whole time.
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I don't really see how it fits the facts, though... since he risked *himself* and not another nameless crew trying to save the Tarawa.

By the time Tolwyn was fiddling with the Behemoth, you'd have think that the Confederation would have learned not to put people like him in charge of anything important that they wanted done precisely.
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Well, he was the one who championed Behemoth -- and his explanation for why in False Colors is, IMO, very reasonable.

I have a hard time beliving that the politicians just sat by and watched Tolwyn do whatever the hell he felt like, they're usually more picky then that.
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Because more times than not, his way of doing things got results. His promotions have all followed unconventional actions that resulted in success... the Enyo Engagenent (to Commodore), attacking the dreadnought at Dolos (to Rear Admiral) and so forth.

And when he became an Admiral...well I had a hard time with all of that. I loved seeing him get spiked by the marine, having his sword broken. I loved that he was the one who led that second attack, he deserved it.
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The sword scene isn't as effective once you realize that it was all a ruse, though. :)

Note that he didn't really give a damn about the Tarawa the second time, just his nephew. I think Tolwyn shouldn't have been giving the privlidge of having his own life taken.
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He didn't have the option of giving a damn about the Tarawa -- he was told it was destroyed returning from Kilrathi space.
 
I think he knew Kurger lied.

And personally, I'm not sure the whole sword thing was a ruse.

If that's confirmed in another novel, I haven't read False Colors.
 
It's confirmed in Fleet Action -- when Tolwyn returns to Earth: <i>Geoff nodded and was silent. There was nothing really to be said. He had been asked to volunteer for the assignment, to deliberately provoke a court martial offense, to seek a dishonorable discharge in order to go into covert operations. It had destroyed his reputation, making him a pariah in his own service, except for the half dozen or so people who were in on the secret. </I>

The entire thing, from the attack on the Kilrathi carrier forward, was planned in advance (G)
 
Tolwyn has always been my favorite character, because of one thing. . . the bastard is human. Every other character in WC seems so 1 dimensional to me. He has an ego, he has a personality, he doesn't play well with others, he cares for those who he gets attached to, he actually acts like he's a normal person. He may always think he's right, but hell, I know alot of people like that, and most of them have a reason for it, and they (like Tolwyn) are usually right.

C-ya
 
So you're saying that he was right to do what he did just because you found him a more interesting character? :confused:
 
Mav23 said:
So you're saying that he was right to do what he did just because you found him a more interesting character?
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No, but I'm saying that.
 
Viper61, I always liked him too and I felt betrayed during WC 3. The point is that Tolwyn was human and that can't be ignored. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. That is what happened with him. He felt humanity needed to be prepared for the next threat. He just made the mistake of going too far.
 
I am aware of that. And I could have sworn that the time between those two posts was within 120 minutes.
 
Tolwyn is the perfect example of "those who stare too long into the abyss risk being consumed by it." He became his enemy. After thirty years on the front lines, fighting the Kilrathi, he came to understand them and their motivations better than those of his own people. Thus, when he became aware of the Kilrathi's tales of either the Mantu or Knath'rak, it isn't clear, he believed that their solution perhaps was the right one, and that in order to survive, Humanity had to become like the Kilrathi, only better, without the bloodthirst that often clouded Kilrathi tactics.

The Kilrathi so enhanced the reputation of these threats, as described in the Prophecy manual's intel report, that when Tolwyn saw them, they looked insurmountable when faced with Humanity's less-than-total focus on war. So, he sought to improve our mentality in order to meet this insurmountable threat, overwhelming what technological power the enemy might have with sheer ferocity.

He wasn't insane, as his actions are logical and consistent. He was...misguided. Tragically misguided.
 
It wasn't Tolwyn's fault. It's America's fault! They caused Tolwyn to go insane! *end CIC protestor joke*

Tolwyn's screwup was he forgot to realize that all of humanity need not be created in his own image. As the WC4 novel states in a good analogy, steel-tipped spears still had wooden shafts, and they were no less lethal then the ones constructed full of steel...
 
Theres nothing wrong with fanaticism. Just the ignorance that comes with it.
 
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