The Star Wars Legacy

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
I've been trying to keep up to date with the Expanded Universe as much as possible... and lately I'm starting to think that its been a little overdone.
I mean think about it, so much tragedy and continuous violence, you have to ask where it all ends... heres what I've chronicled so far...

Tales of The Jedi- Onderon gets thrown into a Civil War

-Malachor V gets destroyed during the Mandalorian Wars

-The mandalorian race is scattered to the winds.

Kotor- Jedi Civil War begins.

-Taris is destroyed

Kotor2- Peragus is destroyed

-the Miralukas homeworld is destroyed and the race is scattered to the winds.

-The Jedi order is destroyed. All but 4 Jedi are dead.

-Jedi order rebuilds

TPM- The Sith are revealed.

-Naboo falls into Chaos

-Begun the Clone War has.

-Jedi take staggering casualties

-Clone Wars end, Jedi Purge begins

-Republic falls... Galactic Empire rises

-Padme Amidala dies, Anakin becomes Darth Vader

-All but two Jedi are slaughtered... again

-The Secret Apprentice dies fighting for the Alliance

-Galactic Civil War begins.

-Alderaan is destroyed

-Battle of Endor, Emperor and Vader die

-Truce at Bakura

-Jedi order begins to rebuild

-Han Marries Leia

-Luke Marries Mara

-Vong wars begin.

-Coruscant is all but destroyed.

-Mara Jade dies

-2 Solo kids die, one falls to the dark side.

-Waiting on the next book...

-LOTF- Jedi order is wiped out... again. The Sith Empire is at war with the Galactic remnants...

-Last of the republic is wiped out... again.

Thats pretty much where we stand now... let me know if I've missed anything.

I mean I love Star Wars, but the expanded Universe seems to be beating the whole Story line to death.
 

Darkmage

Vice Admiral
Good vs evil becomes a very predictable/boring story after a while it's probably why a lot of IP properties introduce third parties now. Star wars used to be fun but it's gotten too ridiculous with the newer additions to the universe. Referring moreso to the books than to the prequel trilogy but both have their flaws/annoyances.
 

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
Good vs evil becomes a very predictable/boring story after a while it's probably why a lot of IP properties introduce third parties now. Star wars used to be fun but it's gotten too ridiculous with the newer additions to the universe. Referring moreso to the books than to the prequel trilogy but both have their flaws/annoyances.

Right exactly, I mean as an independent story, The Legacy surrounding Cade Skywalker is awesome... but as part of Star Wars, how often can the Jedi order get wiped out?
 

AtolDiago

Spaceman
The destruction and rebuilding is somewhat repetative. Ill give you that.
I look more at the technical side of it. The machinery and all that (the books that show the 'cut-outs' of the different ships and technology of the ages and races of SW), is where my interests lay. At the same time though, despite the repeated story line and obligatory, evil ALMOST kills off good and then all of a sudden some type of 'the one' shows up (in one form or another) and saves the day... 'for now', until it happens again, we all eat it up.

Because honestly, if it wasnt that hard to live in that world, and if all those things didnt happen to them, it wouldnt fully be Star Wars. There would be no reason to write about the Jedi because they would just be living normal lives. And we cant be having that. Because then where would the story go? Honestly, I hope it continues going the way it does. Makes things interesting. And a plus side, with Star Wars, the bad guys actually win sometimes. I havent seen that in anything else. Where the bad guy can actually win, be in power, for a judicious amount of time. It allows for another side of the story (granted the same setup still happens, just on the other side of the plot) to be told. Interesting enough for me to keep going with it.

Plus, the more that comes out, the more the tech gets put out and explained >:D
 

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
The destruction and rebuilding is somewhat repetative. Ill give you that.
I look more at the technical side of it. The machinery and all that (the books that show the 'cut-outs' of the different ships and technology of the ages and races of SW), is where my interests lay. At the same time though, despite the repeated story line and obligatory, evil ALMOST kills off good and then all of a sudden some type of 'the one' shows up (in one form or another) and saves the day... 'for now', until it happens again, we all eat it up.

Because honestly, if it wasnt that hard to live in that world, and if all those things didnt happen to them, it wouldnt fully be Star Wars. There would be no reason to write about the Jedi because they would just be living normal lives. And we cant be having that. Because then where would the story go? Honestly, I hope it continues going the way it does. Makes things interesting. And a plus side, with Star Wars, the bad guys actually win sometimes. I havent seen that in anything else. Where the bad guy can actually win, be in power, for a judicious amount of time. It allows for another side of the story (granted the same setup still happens, just on the other side of the plot) to be told. Interesting enough for me to keep going with it.

Plus, the more that comes out, the more the tech gets put out and explained >:D

Yeah see, it gets frustrating for me because I've always been a fan of the Jedi and Sith, dark and light. Technology isn't as big for me. I'll give you I do like the bad guy winning every now and then. But to spend so much time rebuilding the Jedi order... I was looking forward to seeing what would happen and what it would be like when the order was back where it was before the dark times... So I was excited when Legacy was announced. Low and behold, BAM the Jedi order is being wiped out and younglings are being evacuated.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I am entirely confused by this. I decided to start reading Star Wars comics again about two months ago and I have absolutely no idea what is going on in any of them, save Clone Wars. What happened to stories about Luke and Han having adventures?
 

AtolDiago

Spaceman
Forgive the lack of quotes... my work comp is umm... lacking... to say the least...

Frosty-
Agreed. Legacy was an exciting *new* front... and the idea of a Solo or Skywalker going to the dark side was... for lack of a better term... exciting (Anakin turning wasnt as exciting as I thought it would be. mainly because... well.. we already knew it happend). But yes, there was a feeling of depravity (sp?) when all of a sudden the Order is nearing the end of its existence.
maybe... what needs to happen... is an appearence of a third party. maybe its happend and I dont know about it... but I think there needs to be a middle man created. a group that think the Jedi are too selfish with their abilities, but that also believe the Sith are too confrontational and dictating. I dont know, that might spark a few things. Maybe even Sith and Jedi teaming to stop this third entity... but I do agree that after so many times of being demolished, hearing of the Order coming down AGAIN does start to wear on you...

Loaf-
Good point. Now, it would be stories about their children. I am also in the dark about a lot of the new Star Wars stories. For a while, I was completly enthralled with the addition of Kyle Kataarn (I was a HUGE Dark Forces fan... all the way up until Jedi Outcast... not sure if I like that one or not). But now I am lost as to what exactly happend to him.

What should happen, to keep the story going, is keep the Jedi down this time. Keep the Order from coming back for a long time. Make them into an underground group, almost indefinetly. Forcing the universe to change to a Sith controled. Giving them what they have wanted for ages. Then... creating stories that deal with little victories. Maybe even finding something new that has to be tamed or, researched or whatever that would aid in the slow yet nearly final destruction of the Sith Empire. Only this time, when that happens, the Sith then have to be nearly destroyed. Forced into the same situation the Jedi have been forced into so many times. Instead of it being a willingness to 'lie low and wait for the right time' the Sith are so famous for (having done so a thousand damn times).
 

ELTEE

Vice Admiral
Yeah, I have to admit that I was getting rather depressed continuing with all of the expanded material. I guess I'm in a state of crisis right now regarding the newer Star Wars material.

On the one hand, I don't want to be one of those people who gives up on something just because they don't like the direction it's heading. On the other, I do have a hard time with the pattern of the current cycle. Far be it from me to declare what is realistic versus rediculous for a sci fi universe, but I'm really struggling with the current state of affairs.
 

Captain Obvious

Rear Admiral
Dark Forces was the only EU material I could ever get into too. Kyle Katarn is undeniably the most bad ass Jedi ever. If it were up to me Star Wars would be following around his adventures, or we'd at least have another Jedi Knight game. But it's not up to me so... Damn... re-installing Jedi Outcast now.
 

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
Dark Forces was the only EU material I could ever get into too. Kyle Katarn is undeniably the most bad ass Jedi ever. If it were up to me Star Wars would be following around his adventures, or we'd at least have another Jedi Knight game. But it's not up to me so... Damn... re-installing Jedi Outcast now.

Outcast huh? I kinda liked Jedi Academy better. Its what first got me into KOTOR because they are somewhat similar.

Forgive the lack of quotes... my work comp is umm... lacking... to say the least...

Frosty-
Agreed. Legacy was an exciting *new* front... and the idea of a Solo or Skywalker going to the dark side was... for lack of a better term... exciting (Anakin turning wasnt as exciting as I thought it would be. mainly because... well.. we already knew it happend). But yes, there was a feeling of depravity (sp?) when all of a sudden the Order is nearing the end of its existence.
maybe... what needs to happen... is an appearence of a third party. maybe its happend and I dont know about it... but I think there needs to be a middle man created. a group that think the Jedi are too selfish with their abilities, but that also believe the Sith are too confrontational and dictating. I dont know, that might spark a few things. Maybe even Sith and Jedi teaming to stop this third entity... but I do agree that after so many times of being demolished, hearing of the Order coming down AGAIN does start to wear on you...

Loaf-
Good point. Now, it would be stories about their children. I am also in the dark about a lot of the new Star Wars stories. For a while, I was completly enthralled with the addition of Kyle Kataarn (I was a HUGE Dark Forces fan... all the way up until Jedi Outcast... not sure if I like that one or not). But now I am lost as to what exactly happend to him.

What should happen, to keep the story going, is keep the Jedi down this time. Keep the Order from coming back for a long time. Make them into an underground group, almost indefinetly. Forcing the universe to change to a Sith controled. Giving them what they have wanted for ages. Then... creating stories that deal with little victories. Maybe even finding something new that has to be tamed or, researched or whatever that would aid in the slow yet nearly final destruction of the Sith Empire. Only this time, when that happens, the Sith then have to be nearly destroyed. Forced into the same situation the Jedi have been forced into so many times. Instead of it being a willingness to 'lie low and wait for the right time' the Sith are so famous for (having done so a thousand damn times).

Whats going on here? This doesnt make sense to me... especially the part where Loaf agress with ANYTHING I have to say!
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
On the one hand, I don't want to be one of those people who gives up on something just because they don't like the direction it's heading. On the other, I do have a hard time with the pattern of the current cycle. Far be it from me to declare what is realistic versus rediculous for a sci fi universe, but I'm really struggling with the current state of affairs.

It's not that it's ridiculous or even a poor story (I don't really know!) -- it's that it makes absolutely no sense to me. I've read several issues of 'Knights of the Old Republic' and 'Legacy' now and I still have *absolutely no idea what is going on*. I thought if I just stuck it out I'd get into the loop of the series and ride along. No!

Years back there were two kinds of spin-off stories (other than the obvious sort): the main characters getting older (all those novels about Han and Leia raising kids)... and new characters in the familiar universe (ie, Dark Forces, Force Unleashed, etc.). These books are neither of those things!

There was a KoTOR in my box last week. In so far as I can figure, it is set in the distant past of Star Wars and was about an elephant-lizard-thing trying to scam a space casino out of... mineral rights? Then there's Star Wars Legacy which is about... the distant future of Star Wars? And for the past four issues or so it's been various DooM monsters screaming at each other about their fathers? WHAT THE HELL, GUYS?
 

Jason_Ryock

Vice Admiral
It's not that it's ridiculous or even a poor story (I don't really know!) -- it's that it makes absolutely no sense to me. I've read several issues of 'Knights of the Old Republic' and 'Legacy' now and I still have *absolutely no idea what is going on*. I thought if I just stuck it out I'd get into the loop of the series and ride along. No!

Years back there were two kinds of spin-off stories (other than the obvious sort): the main characters getting older (all those novels about Han and Leia raising kids)... and new characters in the familiar universe (ie, Dark Forces, Force Unleashed, etc.). These books are neither of those things!

There was a KoTOR in my box last week. In so far as I can figure, it is set in the distant past of Star Wars and was about an elephant-lizard-thing trying to scam a space casino out of... mineral rights? Then there's Star Wars Legacy which is about... the distant future of Star Wars? And for the past four issues or so it's been various DooM monsters screaming at each other about their fathers? WHAT THE HELL, GUYS?


KOTOR takes place 4000 years before the movies, where the Sith are more of an evil race that inter-bred with Dark Jedi and less of just fallen Jedi.

Legacy is 140 years in the future, and deals primarily with Cade Skywalker, the distant relation of Luke Skywalker. He's a rogue bounty hunter sometimes Jedi. The most confusing thing about Legacy - especially the first time you pick it up - is the Imperial on Imperial action.

Basically, in NJO the New Republic died and was reborn as the Galactic Alliance. The Galactic Alliance went back to war with the Sith, who had joined with the Empire. When the GA was defeated the Empire and the Sith had a falling out. So there's a three sided war going on: Empire VS GA Resistance, Empire VS Sith, and Sith VS GA Resistance. At the start of the war around half the current Jedi Order were exterminated, so they're pretty much in hiding ala Jedi Purge/Order 66 style. Thrust into all of this is Cade Skywalker trying to get by (sometimes) and save the galaxy (sometimes).

I'm not sure which KOTOR series you're reading - their are two - so I'd have a hard time summing up the situation there. From the 'doom' comment I'd guess it's probably the TOJ (Tales of the Jedi) series, but I admitedly haven't read the newer KOTOR comics so I'd be unable to tell you what they are about except what I know from various reviews and discussion threads I've kept up with on the Internet.
 

Aries

Vice Admiral
Thats pretty much where we stand now... let me know if I've missed anything.


Only the fact that everytime the order is "wiped out" in reality about half of the jedi actually survive. I swear, it seems like just about everytime I open up something post-ROTJ it introduces ANOTHER jedi who escaped from Vader. And about half of them end up turning to the dark side. This Dark Lord in Legacy is one of them. Is it so hard to come up with a dark side character that WASN'T previously a jedi?

Also, in that piece of shit KOTOR wannabe "The Old Republic" (still in development) guess what happens. The sith empire take over the galaxy, the jedi, while not destroyed, are pushed into exile, and the people at BioWare don't even have enough creative ability to change the symbol of the sith. Just another variation of the Galactic Empire symbol.

I too, love star wars, but you're right. It is dying a slow death. It's a sad thing to see.
 

NinjaLA

Alex Von T.
I gave up on the starwars extended universe back when Jedi Academy came out.


I keep myself sated by reading my old West End Games Starwars supplements.
 

Jason_Ryock

Vice Admiral
I gave up on the starwars extended universe back when Jedi Academy came out.


I keep myself sated by reading my old West End Games Starwars supplements.

Hah, I've been buying those to keep myself appeased because the danged SAGA expansion books have been so slow at coming out.

Plus they just suck.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
I too, love star wars, but you're right. It is dying a slow death. It's a sad thing to see.
Well, see, that's what happens when people can't let go :p. I mean, it's inevitable that something like Star Wars must suck in the long run. The original trilogy was a classic fairy tale. It started with "once upon a time", and ended with "and they lived happily ever after". It was all right to add background material that told you what was happening while the main story took place. It was even all right to do another trilogy telling you how we got to the point where the original trilogy took place. But all the crap that's been piled on over the years that happens after the "happily ever after" bit? Obviously, anything that gets added there must suck, and must destroy the original. After all, what's the point of even watching something like the Return of the Jedi, when you know that the evil Empire was not destroyed, the Emperor came back to life half a dozen times (...or whatever), and then an evil alien race came out of nowhere to kill everyone? All of a sudden, there's no satisfaction whatsoever to the movie's ending.
 

Jason_Ryock

Vice Admiral
But I can't be Kyle Katarn in Academy. I like the writing better in Outcast too.

I missed playing as Kyle as well, but I liked the story much better in the Academy. Plus, the choose your own mission style lends itself very well to the Jedi Order, I think, and some of them were really tricky and original missions.

I enjoyed the 'Worms' secnario, for example, which was a jumping puzzle rather then a simple hack and slash like some of the others. And the speeder bike chase, but who doesn't like things that go fast? The fight with the juiced up Rancor was good too, so was leading the miners out of the Hutt's Palace. They really had some great concepts there, I think.
 

ChanceKell

Rear Admiral
I gave up on the Expanded Universe when the prequels came out, and loyal fans were force-fed crap, both canon and non-canon. Unfortunately, by then my family got the notion that I was really in to reading Star Wars, so I have a good collection of New Jedi Order hardcovers I don't plan on reading.

Don't get me wrong - there is plenty of good work put into the EU, a lot of excellent stories and compelling characters. Probably influenced by my interest in Wing Commander, I've put a lot of stock into SW videogames (though they, too, have been tainted since TPM).

Going on what some others have said, the EU went a little too far in expanding the universe. Random Jedi who survived the holocaust, the Emperor coming back again and again and again (I am thankful that the prequels put down the notion that Palpatine kept cloning himself), the well-developed, intricate lives of seemingly every weird-looking muppet that got three frames of screen time, the constant battles that Luke and his posse have faced (putting all the EU together in a timeline, it appears like he NEVER has a chance to breathe deep) -- all of it, in essence, is overkill. And ultimately, despite the best artistic efforts of writers, animators, and other creative minds, I've concluded that the EU exists to add a few more dollars to the Lucas Empire Bank.

If only I can go back in time ten or fifteen years, and warn a young ChanceKell to purchase a novel by Clarke or Herbert instead of Children of the Jedi, or make a better purchase with my hard-earned cash than Jedi Power Battles.... I digress. If I don't, I might cry.

Just let me finish up on theplebe's original comment on the continual conflict in the SW Universe: They don't call it Star Harmony for a reason.
 
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