Tarawa's flight deck

Death

gh0d (Administrator)
criticalmass said:
I definitely like the feel of the hangar, but I've got one question: If I recall right, at one point in End Run, didn't they latch bombers to the roof of the hangar to have enough space for the additional wing? (Or am I mixing things up here? Can't check, book's in another country)

It was the Marine landing craft that were hung from the ceiling to make room to move fighters around.
 

Marc

Commodore
criticalmass said:
I wonder about scale - is this hangar large enough to hang equipment to the ceiling and still move/man fighters directly below?

frankly I can't tell. I did some spacing research before I launch myslef into this...
Tarawa is some 410 meters long...Now the average fighters in WC2 is about 25 meters long (excluding the ferret). But the real trick is to know just what the hek a marine landing tranport looks like- it's desing- to see if it's really tall or really flat.

maybe someone else has some more info-but I think it's anyones guess right now.
 

Edfilho

Cry some more!
This is getting pretty complicated, but the tarawa is looking good. And I'd go with the one opening hangar... Good job!

BTW, we have to remember that probably we can't make all the book descriptions fit a model...
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Here's the description of the hooks (from Sparks): "See them hooks on the ceiling? They never pulled them out when this ship was converted over from a transport. We could hang eight of the landing craft up there, and there'd be just enough room underneath for the taxiway."

My understanding is that the ceiling of the bay is higher than the opening of the entry port -- which leaves space 'over' the deck to hang eight Marine LCs.

I don't *think* there's an established length for the Tarawa -- 410 meters seems short, compared to the Ranger-class (which carries less fighters and is 720 meters long). It should be as large as you need it to be, unless someone can come up with a solid source for a length (which, again, I don't think exists).

As for the size of the landing craft... estimate based on the data we know: 96-meter long Draymen (in SM2) or 65-meter long Hercules' in WCP.

Draymans make the 'overhead' it a bit large: 192 meters across, 196 meters long. For the Hercules', it would have to be 130 meters across... and I'm not sure how long. Significantly less than 196 meters (Hercules' are skinny).
 

Edfilho

Cry some more!
LOAF, The Draymans were just troop transports, not necessarily landing craft... they moved the marines across the galaxy. Like the ships that carried Marines in the pacific. They landed on smaller craft. The herc was the opposite, it was carried by a larger ship and used on the landing itself. And it's very probable, by the description of the landing craft capabilities in the novel that it was a different model. maybe a smaller one.

And Lehah, I think, IIRC that the tarawa was converted while the original heavy transport was still being built, I don't think they actually commisioned the transport and then got it back to the yards and converted her...
 

Marc

Commodore
if a broadsword can't fit in on this ship there's no way a drayman or a hercules type ship can either :)

oh and the 410m is from FleetTactics.com
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
LOAF, The Draymans were just troop transports, not necessarily landing craft... they moved the marines across the galaxy. Like the ships that carried Marines in the pacific. They landed on smaller craft. The herc was the opposite, it was carried by a larger ship and used on the landing itself. And it's very probable, by the description of the landing craft capabilities in the novel that it was a different model. maybe a smaller one.

The troop complements of the Drayman, the unidentified landing craft in End Run and the Hercules are identical, though -- 100 marines each.

And Lehah, I think, IIRC that the tarawa was converted while the original heavy transport was still being built, I don't think they actually commisioned the transport and then got it back to the yards and converted her...

That's correct.

if a broadsword can't fit in on this ship there's no way a drayman or a hercules type ship can either

I believe they liken the landing craft to Broadswords during the course of the novel.

Playing with it in my head alone, I think a Hercules should be less wide than a Broadswords -- Broadswords are about as wide as they are long, 36 meters... whereas Hercules' are probably less than a quarter as wide as they are long so a 65 meter long Hercules should be able to fit into an opening half as wide as would be required for a Broadsword.

oh and the 410m is from FleetTactics.com

Fleet Tactics fills a lot of blanks just to be able to have done so -- I don't believe the number is stated anywhere.
 

HammerHead

Rear Admiral
The BW avanger is base on a shutle...
why not make a maring landing craft on it lines?
it has the right "look"...
and it would fit is the hanger bay - about 32 m long and about 25 m wide, about as high as a sabre (from bottom to top of tail) - it would squeeze with just enogh room to spare...
 

HammerHead

Rear Admiral
Bandit LOAF said:
I don't *think* there's an established length for the Tarawa -- 410 meters seems short, compared to the Ranger-class (which carries less fighters and is 720 meters long). It should be as large as you need it to be, unless someone can come up with a solid source for a length (which, again, I don't think exists).

I must say I never understood that -
they put 90 aircraft on an 800m long Concordia class, 102 on a 690-700m long Bengal class, but only 40 on a 720m long ranger class .

Yet the Ranger class is not realy skinnier the either the Bengal on Concorida classes...
 

criticalmass

Vice Admiral
Bandit LOAF said:
I believe they liken the landing craft to Broadswords during the course of the novel.

There's a nice excuse for my initial confusion..

But from the dimension relationships it just might work out. Sure, from the novels I imagined the hangar a bit spacier (with all the techs scrambling around, the net, and the tractors to push fighters around) - but there's no evidence for that.

I just wonder how the do a magnum launch or a land & launch without running into each other all the time... - shouldn't there be a "ready lane" (term?) to prep or dress down the fighter that is next out/last in?
 

Edfilho

Cry some more!
The troop complements of the Drayman, the unidentified landing craft in End Run and the Hercules are identical, though -- 100 marines each.
Aren't there a 1000 troops in a Drayman? As per WC1 dialogues...
 

Marc

Commodore
I imagine the crafts pretty mutch get all the prepping they need in their own parking space, and only move to launch.

At this point I could go either way on the parking spot spaces. Meaning I could put them back the way they were when I started (see first pics) or keep'em like this. This is another detail left to our imagination...
 
Though I don’t like to mix Star Trek or Star Wars designs with Wing Commander I always pictured the landing craft as like a mix between a Brog cube and a Higgins landing craft.

Each marine transport holds twenty landing craft each with a company of a hundred grunts. ER p.115

First marine Battalion, 500 people ER p.223, is transferred aboard the Tarawa with ten landing craft (near the size of a Broadsword ER p.167)

Landing craft has laser guns and mass driver mini-cannons ER p.117 Bombardment missiles (air-to-ground suppression missiles ER p.227) snap out of the undercarriage ER p.121 Nearly a hundred tons unloaded. ER p.168 It could also be used to carry two M-77 light ground assault vehicle ER p.167
 

Haesslich

Spaceman
Shades2585 said:
Though I don’t like to mix Star Trek or Star Wars designs with Wing Commander I always pictured the landing craft as like a mix between a Brog cube and a Higgins landing craft.

Each marine transport holds twenty landing craft each with a company of a hundred grunts. ER p.115

First marine Battalion, 500 people ER p.223, is transferred aboard the Tarawa with ten landing craft (near the size of a Broadsword ER p.167)

Landing craft has laser guns and mass driver mini-cannons ER p.117 Bombardment missiles (air-to-ground suppression missiles ER p.227) snap out of the undercarriage ER p.121 Nearly a hundred tons unloaded. ER p.168 It could also be used to carry two M-77 light ground assault vehicle ER p.167

"Marine transport" and "Drayman" are not necessarily the same thing: here's the direct quote about Draymans and Marines in WC1:SM1.

Colonel Halcyon said:
Halcyon: At the moment, we’re cruising deeper into Kilrathi space. And we just received a coded, tight-beam message from the High Command. They’re sending a convoy to rendezvous with us. But these ships will appear back at the border, right where we had our last scrap with the furballs. So I’m sending wings to retrieve it. You’ll return to that jump-point, destroying any Kilrathi that you encounter. At designated jump-points, you’ll rendezvous with the Sleipnir convoy, Drayman-class ’sports carrying a company of marines each. As some of you may know, the Sleipnir carries the Reavers, a division of elite marine units from the Scandinavian nations of Earth. We need all the help we can get out here, people. Don’t screw up. Each wing will escort their convoy to a jump point in Kilrathi territory. After the Reavers jump, then return to Tiger’s Claw. If we’re lucky, this mission will bring us an additional benefit. The Kilrathi might think that this is only an extensive border attack and not realise that we’re heading deep into their space. Okay, individual wing assignments."

The only other reference to Marines on Draymans is in Secret Missions 2, where Halcyon describes the TCS General Powell as being "a Drayman with 150 marines and a crew of 25". This gives us a crew figure of 175 people onboard one of these rather small (96m long) transports, which given some of the fighter figures for WC1 (the Raptor being a ridiculous 36m long, or a third of the transport's length), means it's a very small craft indeed. :D

Heck, even Venture-class corvettes which carry a crew of 8 or 9 people are 80 meters long... or about the size of a Drayman, and are considered 'small' for the crew they carry, at least according to End Run. I don't see any way to put a thousand Marines plus equipment on one of those babies - the transports in End Run seem to be a different breed of craft, probably being a dedicated amphibious carrier as compared to a refitted transport/merchant ship.
 
Since I made no reference to Drayman’s much less a comparison of a Drayman and a Marine transport maybe you meant to Quote LOAF?
Bandit LOAF said:
The troop complements of the Drayman, the unidentified landing craft in End Run and the Hercules are identical, though -- 100 marines each.

I agree that the Drayman’s are not the same as the Marine Transports in ER. Since the ER Marine Transport carries 20 landing craft and each of the landing craft not only holds 100 troops but is nearly the size of a Broadsword that would make the ER Marine transport far longer then 96m.

There are various references to crew sizes for the Drayman though. You found one already. Here are two more in the WC Strategy Guide 1&2
Drayman has a crew of 24 SG1 p.59
Drayman Transport crew 14 SG1 p.96
The various crew sizes may be explained by the various Drayman configurations. There are Freighter Drayman’s, Courier Drayman, and Tanker Drayman’s. (Probably civilian and military variations as well.)
 

Edfilho

Cry some more!
True, true... I stand corrected.

On a slightly unrelated note, isn't the Kilrathi Dorkir in WC1 that carries a thousand? I remember someone saying that each one we destroyed was a thousand less kats to fight on the ground...
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Edfilho said:
On a slightly unrelated note, isn't the Kilrathi Dorkir in WC1 that carries a thousand? I remember someone saying that each one we destroyed was a thousand less kats to fight on the ground...
Dorkathi transport, WC2 (Angel mentions it when you and Stingray go after a pair of Dorkathi in... uhh, Tesla?). Mind you, size-wise the Dorkathi is not much bigger than the Dorkir or the Drayman, at least in terms of length.
 
Edfilho said:
isn't the Kilrathi Dorkir in WC1 that carries a thousand? I remember someone saying that each one we destroyed was a thousand less kats to fight on the ground...
The Dorkir is 104m in length so I doubt.

Edfilho said:
I remember someone saying that each one we destroyed was a thousand less kats to fight on the ground...
That does sound familiar thought. Let us know if you find it.
 
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