Some sunshine & a few general questions...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Heh...

That makes you and me both, Ed.... ;)

Yeah, I understand that games like WC3, WC4, Prophecy, etc. can't happen without money...I guess I just question really the bonds shared by EA, what-used-to-be-Origin, Chris Roberts, etc... Again, I'm not trying to be a naysayer here or anything, but it just seems to me that whatever bond was established in the past, it's kinda weakened over the years. Why did Roberts leave anyway? The whole "artistic differences" argument? If that's the case, what's the likelihood of a joint effort between Roberts and EA again in the near future? And here's another question - as I don't know the fella personally, is Roberts terribly interested in making another Wing Commander? Maybe I'm unclear on licenses, copyright laws, etc., so I'm not fully understanding things...but he did Starlancer and Freelancer (or at least started Freelancer, right?) with Digital Anvil. Maybe the guy's one of those types who would like to be remembered as more than just Mr. Wing Commander or something? Again, this is just speculation - I'm not afraid to admit I'm nearly completely ignorant of this subject matter... :(

As for a potential storyline - assuming WC will be ressurrected sometime this century - I just couldn't see reverting back to the old human versus kitty war either. Though a prequel seems like a neat idea, I think there's so much more to the Prophecy storyline that didn't yet get told, that it'd make more sense to start there, THEN maybe go back for some kind of prequel. But even then, I don't know what kind of prequel could be done. Would you play as Paladin or Tolwyn wayyyy back near the beginning of it all? Were there even that many engagements that were particularly noteworthy to base a game on then, historically-speaking? I don't know...I think the Kilrathi War storyline has been pretty much tapped out personally. I think the Kilrathi should play a large role in storylines to come...perhaps even becoming an adversary again for the Confederation after they get through their bloody civil war. But returning to the war of the past just doesn't strike me as a good way to go to revive the epic saga that is Wing Commander...maybe that's just me. If someone here could suggest a good enough reason to jump into the past to revive Wing Commander, I'd be glad to hear it. :)

Well, come what may for the Wing Commander universe, I guess. Time will tell if it breathes new life or disappears into the great unknown of games waiting for a sequel that never came. But no matter the case, it's reassuring to know that there's so much of a following; and despite years of inactivity in WC game production, it's good to know that there are still people around who remember what good games were and still are to this day. :)

Your friendly visitor and still-pondering-if-he-should-write-his-fan-fiction-Prophecy-sequel-storyline-thing guy,
FireFalcon ~};^
 
You know, now that you mention it, I could very well imagine that if a new WC game comes out and it's a prequel, they'd put you in as a young Paladin/Tolwyn or maybe a novel character (Vance Richards) though less likely IMHO.
 
I think soon after McAuliffe Richards got transfered and took command of a destroyer or some other small capship, he had Kruger under him and when kruger took his destroyer from richards group to go harrass some kats that had attacked the landreich, richards was transfered to confed intel, so his flying career is probably more towards the pre-war years.

I could definately see a young Tolwyn or Paladin, although Tolwyn seems like the more likely character...
 
I dunno...

I dunno, guys...

I still think they'd be better off continuing the storyline after Prophecy, with one minor suggestion - DEVIATE FROM THE "TOP GUN" STORYLINE A BIT MORE! I think that'd have to be my biggest complaint with Prophecy...that was the first time I learned that Blair's callsign was "Maverick" *cough cough* RIPOFF *cough*. Then there was reference to "Iceman" (bear in mind that I hadn't played WC1 by this point) and then you had the whole sidestory of Casey trying to live up to the expectations of a man he never met (his Dad), just like Maverick in Top Gun. I think at one point, Casey talks about how he goes up each time like he's flying against him....isn't that more or less an exact analytical quote from Goose in "Top Gun?"

ANYWAY...there was enough of a storyline to deviate from the "Top Gun" thing in Prophecy...but there was STILL enough there that really, REALLY bugged me...part of me still wonders to this day - aren't there grounds for some kinda lawsuit for copying material and conversations from "Top Gun?" Why couldn't Blair have a more original name - like "Bubbles" or something...granted, that'd make the fella sound a little light in the loafers or something, but at least it'd be original! :)

AHH....so long story short - I think they should continue the storyline where Prophecy left off, but maybe work on changing Blair's callsign (kinda like how "Bossman's" old callsign was "Ripper," but they changed it, right?), and move away from the "Top Gun" thing so it could stand in its own light!

Anyway, I think I'll still work on that story I was planning....after bugging you guys through 2+ pages of irritating questions and "what if" scenarios, I should do something worthwhile with the answers you provided me with. :)

I STILL say the gaming series would be better off going forward rather than back, though. I mean, after flying something like the Vampire, you mean to tell me some of you are actually anxious to hop back into a Hornet? And here I thought Maniac was insane! ;)

Your fellow fan,
FireFalcon ~};^
 
Umm, Blair's official callsign has always been Maverick, that's not just a WCP thing. As for why, ask Chris Roberts, it was his choice.

As for ship choice, some people prefer to not use the ubership du jour when possible. I mean, yeah, having everything in one package is nice, but it gets kinda boring. Dusting that enemy Uberfighter of Doom is a lot more challenging when you do it in an "inferior" ship than when meeting it with your own uberfighter (I enjoyed taking on Dragons in a Banshee, for a somewhat extreme example).
 
X_FIREFALCON said:
I dunno, guys...

I still think they'd be better off continuing the storyline after Prophecy, with one minor suggestion - DEVIATE FROM THE "TOP GUN" STORYLINE A BIT MORE! I think that'd have to be my biggest complaint with Prophecy...that was the first time I learned that Blair's callsign was "Maverick" *cough cough* RIPOFF *cough*. Then there was reference to "Iceman" (bear in mind that I hadn't played WC1 by this point) and then you had the whole sidestory of Casey trying to live up to the expectations of a man he never met (his Dad), just like Maverick in Top Gun. I think at one point, Casey talks about how he goes up each time like he's flying against him....isn't that more or less an exact analytical quote from Goose in "Top Gun?"

ANYWAY...there was enough of a storyline to deviate from the "Top Gun" thing in Prophecy...but there was STILL enough there that really, REALLY bugged me...part of me still wonders to this day - aren't there grounds for some kinda lawsuit for copying material and conversations from "Top Gun?" Why couldn't Blair have a more original name - like "Bubbles" or something...granted, that'd make the fella sound a little light in the loafers or something, but at least it'd be original! :)

AHH....so long story short - I think they should continue the storyline where Prophecy left off, but maybe work on changing Blair's callsign (kinda like how "Bossman's" old callsign was "Ripper," but they changed it, right?), and move away from the "Top Gun" thing so it could stand in its own light!

Anyway, I think I'll still work on that story I was planning....after bugging you guys through 2+ pages of irritating questions and "what if" scenarios, I should do something worthwhile with the answers you provided me with. :)

I STILL say the gaming series would be better off going forward rather than back, though. I mean, after flying something like the Vampire, you mean to tell me some of you are actually anxious to hop back into a Hornet? And here I thought Maniac was insane! ;)

Your fellow fan,
FireFalcon ~};^
Click to expand...

Given that Blair's dead, I doubt they'll be changing his callsign anytime soon - and Maverick in the movie was the one who first mentioned that he felt that he was flying in his Dad's shadow. Except that his Dad had supposedly been a coward, which is why he died.

Besides, if you've ever seen WC3 or WC4, you'd know that they'd taken 'Maverick' as his name anyhow - but since there was no Iceman and Maverick was in his 40s, then there was no hint of Top Gun. Besides which, to be liable for copyright infringement, they'd not only have to copy the story but they'd also have to take the names and make it so that the public could be easily confused between them.

In other words, Prophecy would have to involve Russians, they'd be flying off a carrier in the Sea of Japan, and Maverick would be the young pilot who flies against the memory of his Father, and not Lance Casey. :D It didn't feel very Top Gun, not with the whole Nephilim thing, and especially not since Maverick was a retired pilot at this point. Nor was Iceman a young man when we first saw him, back in WC1. Sure, they had a few similar callsigns, but it's like saying that one movie's a copy of another because it uses a few names which are similar, and evokes memories of another movie even if they're not at all related.
 
that was the first time I learned that Blair's callsign was "Maverick" *cough cough* RIPOFF *cough*.
Click to expand...

I think the first time it's actually stated in continuity is a reference in the Wing Commander 3 novel. It was first a 'high profile' thing for the Wing Commander Academy animated series.

Given that Blair's dead, I doubt they'll be changing his callsign anytime soon - and Maverick in the movie was the one who first mentioned that he felt that he was flying in his Dad's shadow. Except that his Dad had supposedly been a coward, which is why he died.
Click to expand...

I don't think Blair said anything like that about his dad. (Blair's father was a war hero... he was disgraced long after his death when people found out that he'd died trying to rescue Blair's Pilgrim mother during the Siege of Peron. Certainly not a coward, though.)

Besides, if you've ever seen WC3 or WC4, you'd know that they'd taken 'Maverick' as his name anyhow - but since there was no Iceman and Maverick was in his 40s, then there was no hint of Top Gun.
Click to expand...

Neither of these games give Blair an official callsign, though he was Maverick in dev-related stuff at that time.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
I don't think Blair said anything like that about his dad. (Blair's father was a war hero... he was disgraced long after his death when people found out that he'd died trying to rescue Blair's Pilgrim mother during the Siege of Peron. Certainly not a coward, though.)
Click to expand...

I'm talking about the movie Top Gun. Maverick's father had crashed or turned tail in an engagement, when the truth was that he'd gone back into a fight after being wounded to save three other pilots, and was shot down in the process. Given that the fight took place 'on the wrong side of the lines', they hid the truth and made up the cover story, IIRC.

Bandit LOAF said:
Neither of these games give Blair an official callsign, though he was Maverick in dev-related stuff at that time.
Click to expand...

Wasn't that the default callsign? Then again, it's been too ****ing long since I've played those last two games anyways. :P By the time we hit WCP and Kilrathi Saga, those games do have his callsign as 'Maverick', anyhow. WC3N is one of the first published references to Maverick, as the previous apparent 'reference' to Blair in the novels was in End Run, IIRC, where Bear said that 'Phoenix and his wingman' saved the Concordia before he got onboard.
 
There was no default callsign in Wing 3/4.

Phoenix was a name they played with for Blair circa-WC2... I don't think it ever showed up in continuity as clearly being assosciated with him, though.
 
Heya...

Hey again, guys.

Didn't realize it'd be a bit of a touchy subject likening parts of the Prophecy storyline to "Top Gun," but I think you all see what I'm getting at. Maybe names like "Maverick" and "Iceman" are generic enough that it's merely a coincidence that they pop up in "Top Gun" and the Wing Commander series. Again, I'm sorry if I didn't come across as clear in my references. In case I didn't indicate it sufficiently, I had only played WC2 (the old DOS version) a few years prior to Prophecy, so I only became aware of characters like "Iceman" and "Maverick" after playing Prophecy (these names were never mentioned in WC2, as I can recall). So when they popped up in Prophecy, I was a little bugged by it. And then when Casey (yes, I know not Blair) got into this whole conversation about his dad....the whole thing just screamed "Top Gun" at me.

I know there are subtle differences....in Wing Commander, "Iceman" was a great hero who the cats picked up when he lost his fighter, then they proceeded to dice him up into little chunks and leave the remains in a lifepod for Blair to bring back, as Hawk recalls. Hmmm...side question here - this implies that Blair and Hawk flew together during the war; is that right? Still haven't played through WC4 (finally made it through WC3 the other night - might've made it through sooner if I didn't have a bug up my tush about not choosing any wingmen for the last missions), so I'm not sure if this is mentioned in it, or if this is mentioned anywhere else other than Prophecy. In "Top Gun," yes, the released report was that his dad somehow screwed up and that's what got him killed, when in actuality it was an ugly battle on the wrong side of the border and he saved the lives of three comrades instead of fleeing the area with his own life after taking a hit (or something to that effect). So there's a subtlety here that in "Top Gun," Maverick's dad was supposed to be a screw-up (even though in actuality, he wasn't), whereas Casey's dad in Prophecy is a great hero who didn't screw up, though he had a reputation for being a cold, quiet killer of cats. The fact that the two dads in question is not what troubles me...it's the attitude adopted by their sons that does - both feel like they're flying against a ghost when they go out in a fighter...it's that same mentality. Granted, maybe it's just another coincidence, but I don't know...how many coincidences could you have? :)

But again, these are just my minor problems with Prophecy; I definitely agree that there's plenty there still to make it its own thing...I just wish it wouldn't fall into some of these traps - that's all.

And to clarify - I'm talking about Wing Commander's Casey's dad and "Top Gun" Maverick's (Tom Cruise's character's) dad....not Wing Commander's Maverick (Mark Hamill character's) dad. AHHHH - too many Mavericks. :)

I don't know if it breaks any copyright laws or not, but it sure as hell makes things confusing when comparing the two!

And I guess I see the argument in flying inferior fighters, "Death." I just think it'd be hard to downshift and fly something like the Hornet again after flying the Vampire. I mean...I played Prophecy before I played Wing Commander 1, and boy oh boy...you REALLY had to work for kills back then - it was almost a little TOO frustrating at times! They could just up the ante in future games, though...have the gameplay be much faster, better Nephilim fighters, tougher weapons...make it so you have to push your bird to the breaking point to get through it. If they raised the steaks, your "uber" (ugh, I hate that word!) fighter wouldn't be so "uber," but more like a bit (ok, here's another one I hate!) "nerfed" because the enemy raised the bar technologically. Of course, if this R&D kept up, pretty soon Confed would have to develop newer and newer fighters to match the onslaught until everyone's just cruising around at light speed with fifty ba-zillion missiles and twin Decimator plasma cannons...or something...but it's just a thought...

I'm all for flying inferior fighters against superior adversaries...there's just something fun about the whole David vs. Goliath scenario...but by that same token, I'm not sure I like flying those paper machee fighters of yester-year either. I mean, I think I could've ejected out of a Hornet into a Kilrathi fighter and my helmet could've done more damage! :) I mean, flying an inferior fighter is fine, but it should stand SOME chance of survival, and be able to take some level of punishment, right? Did those Hornets even come with seatbelts? Were you even supposed to come back alive with one of those things?! :)

- FireFalcon ~};^
 
Eh, no, you're right - the "father's shadow" story element in Prophecy is very similar to Top Gun... but it's generally something we've always overlooked (we being Wing Commander fans, I guess) since it's so neat that they decided to bring in the whole Iceman reference in the first place (getting later Wing Commander games to refer to earlier ones is like pulling teeth... jumping back five games for a plot point was unbelievable at the time).

The bigger issue, one that the 'I want to be like my dad' story just helps emphasize, though is the fact that Casey is a huge wuss. If you want to do a sequel to Prophecy you need to somehow convince people that he's cooler than his character as played by Steven Petraca.
 
Hmmm...

I hear ya, LOAF.

I guess the only reason I picked up on the "Top Gun" similarities to the extent that I did was because I went into Prophecy without knowing anything about "Maverick" or "Iceman" as they fit into the Wing Commander universe...it was actually kind of funny, because I had this nagging suspicion throughout the whole game that they were just trying to make a "Top Gun"-like game set in the WC universe, and then in the last mission when I need to doubleback and link up with Blair, I targeted him and it said "Maverick." I felt like I had been had when I saw what his callsign was. I thought it was the most ludicrous thing I'd ever seen.

But again...this is all just because it's the first game I got that referred to either of these characters, so I think that's what really got me into that whole mindset. But thinking back on it, there were plenty of differences far too numerous to mention. So it's all good...it's just....something I first noticed the first time I played through Wing Commander Prophecy; that's all. :)

Anyway...regarding Casey...are you suggesting that the character would have to be revamped to make him have more depth and more attitude, or that the character would have to be recasted as someone else who could do the part more justice? Or are you saying both? Just curious. I honestly wasn't sure how to feel about Casey...kinda just like "eh, he was there." Zero seems kinda like the modern-day Doomsday of the group (I thought I read somewhere that his very callsign comes from him having either a tendency or predictable likelihood of being at Ground Zero when the sh*t hits the fan), and Maestro as the modern-day Maniac (rash, out of line, talks the talk, the main character's close buddy)...Stiletto, naturally, as the modern-day Angel (she is or was Casey's superior, just like Angel was Blair's, right?). I guess in that regard, I was also a bit disappointed as well, I must admit...it seemed like a repeat of the same characters to an extent, or am I totally off? That's going to be a hard part of my story...trying to have more original people grouped in to dilute these repetitive character forumulae; not sure if it'll be possible or not, but I'll be trying nonetheless...

- FireFalcon ~};^
 
X_FIREFALCON said:
(...)
I'm all for flying inferior fighters against superior adversaries...there's just something fun about the whole David vs. Goliath scenario...but by that same token, I'm not sure I like flying those paper machee fighters of yester-year either. I mean, I think I could've ejected out of a Hornet into a Kilrathi fighter and my helmet could've done more damage! :) I mean, flying an inferior fighter is fine, but it should stand SOME chance of survival, and be able to take some level of punishment, right? Did those Hornets even come with seatbelts? Were you even supposed to come back alive with one of those things?! :)
Click to expand...

Ah, but you wouldn't feel that way since the Kilrathi too would be flying old machines.
I certainly didn't feel inferior in my Hornet when I flew against a Dralthi (not MK II though). :)
 
Hornets were pretty effective in WC1 against Salthis and Dralthis. It was a pain to face anything from Krant and up, though. Its shields and armor were no problem due to the ship´s speed and maneuverability, but it really could use a couple of mass drivers.
 
Hmmm...

I dunno....few (if any) of those older ships took kindly to missiles, and I always seemed to have more than my fair share of them chasing me around vacuum...and I don't think any of those birds of the era came equipped with countermeasures either. So you'd charge into a furball (heh - that's kinda punny!), mix it up with a group of cats, take down one or two, then it'd start raining missiles...it was bloody, I tell ya; just plain bloody! :) And going up against those MkII Dralthis with the twin mass drivers....it was like being in my own personal hell! :) Man, those were dangerous times...times when I swear the brass never wanted you to come back!

Those older things handled much more slowly also....not very nimble compared to Prophecy-vintage craft. There are few things as intimidating as staring down a squadron of kitties in a craft that can't take much beating, can't dish out a whole lot, and can't maneuver like a mother to make up for those two huge delinquencies.

Honestly, slap a pair of those Hornet's lasers on a Vampire (or even a Panther or Piranha....well ok...maybe not a Piranha on second thought), and I'd be happy...at least I could still outfly the cats if I couldn't outgun them.

But boy oh boy...if you had to write a storyline about the beginning of the war...I think you'd have to make it so every pilot had a fleet of clones that would activate one after another when the guy before them in the assembly line bit the dust in his craptacular Hornet.

Like I say - LOVED the idea of a challenge, hated the flimsy contraptions of the era. Half the time, it was more about luck than fancy flying, I think. Deathtraps, I tell ya - deathtraps! :)

But, a pair of lasers on those flimsy things? Are you KIDDING me? Is that some designer's idea of a practical joke? Half of those missions back then felt like you were dodging a barrage of cannon balls while you pelted at the enemy with a makeshift slingshot! :)

I dunno, guys...I'd still have to say the best weapon on those older crafts were the ejection seats, and that's a very disconcerting thought. ;)


- FireFalcon ~};^
 
I don't think the earlier games are that much of a problem, tech-wise... working your way up from a Corsair with a laser to a Raptor with four guns will play exactly the same way as going from a Piranha to a Vampire.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
I don't think the earlier games are that much of a problem, tech-wise... working your way up from a Corsair with a laser to a Raptor with four guns will play exactly the same way as going from a Piranha to a Vampire.
Click to expand...

You never "worked" for your ships the way you did in WC1.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
I don't think the earlier games are that much of a problem, tech-wise... working your way up from a Corsair with a laser to a Raptor with four guns will play exactly the same way as going from a Piranha to a Vampire.
Click to expand...
The Corsair was armed with only a single laser? Isn't it supposed to be the replacement for the Wildcat, which IIRC was armed with two lasers and two mass drivers?

C-ya
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top