Some one should...

[Earthworm]

Quarto, DH, ever heard of typing mistakes? There was around 600 fighters for Confed, and about twice that number for our feline friends.

All Confed fleet carriers (the ones that were operational that is) launched all their fighters and the carriers and some escorts prety much held back. The Hakagas weren’t that far away from each other, and even though the Kilrathi did dispach several squadrons of destroyers and cruisers, the Hakagas had enough capships around them to overload any game engine. Quarto, the Kilrathi were in Sol, they was only one way to stop them, with a full attack using everything Confed had. There was no point to hold any carriers back, because if they lost at Sol, it was all over.

 

[Death's Head]

Well say what you mean then.

So the mission won't work under current engines without separating the fleets into squads engaging at diff. nav points, great case closed.

That doesn't mean someone can't make a mission that involves a couple squadrons engaging waves of fighters, plus a seemingly endless spawning of capships...that would still be neat.

The only way to get a real feel for the Battle of Earth is to write yourself into the novel and *poof* Earthworm is thrust into a Ferret cockpit (no jump drive option, sorry)and catapulted of the deck into a barrage of missiles.

BTW, techs forgot to install an ejection system. Good luck, soldier.

 

[Earthworm]

Sure, as long as it's not an Epee.

I like Ferrets.

 

[Death's Head]

Good thing I changed it then form being Epee.

 

[Quarto]

Earthworm: It wasn't a typing mistake, since you never actually wrote 12000

. I was actually talking about your figure of 200 navpoints with 60 fighters at each. Or was that supposed to be 20 nav points

?

And yes, I know where the action took place, but you don't seem to know what carriers are used for

. A carrier is not a cruiser, nor is it a destroyer, or a battleship. Its sole purpose is to act like a mobile airfield and armoured hangar(the Concordia, is of course an exception since it's a dreadnought - but since the PTC has been retired, it's essentially just another heavy carrier). When I said that they wouldn't be at the same nav point as the Killies, I didn't mean that they would fall back, but rather that they would stay the hell away from the Kilrathi fleet (but in fighter range), so that the Kilrathi destroyers can't pick them off

. Of course, Confed destroyers on the other hand would charge straight into the Kilrathi fleet.

Anyway, if the nav points were only 50,000 away from each other (as opposed to WCP's 1,000,000), then you would move between the different parts of the battle quite easily, and still get the illusion of the huge engagement.

As for the Epees, having an ejection system in one of those doesn't help at all, since you can never reach the handle in time

.

 

[Earthworm]

Earthworm: It wasn't a typing mistake, since you never actually wrote 12000

. I was actually talking about your figure of 200 navpoints with 60 fighters at each. Or was that supposed to be 20 nav points

?

It was a typing mistake when I said that there should be 200 navpoints when I wanted to say 20.

And yes, I know where the action took place, but you don't seem to know what carriers are used for

. A carrier is not a cruiser, nor is it a destroyer, or a battleship.

And where did I say a carrier is a cruiser or a battleship?

The Hakagas could very well go into combat with other capships though. HOwever, the Kilrathi ships except of few squadrons stayed around the carriers to protect them from any attacks.

When I said that they wouldn't be at the same nav point as the Killies, I didn't mean that they would fall back, but rather that they would stay the hell away from the Kilrathi fleet (but in fighter range), so that the Kilrathi destroyers can't pick them off

.

But.... that's what.... I... meant....

Anyway, if the nav points were only 50,000 away from each other (as opposed to WCP's 1,000,000), then you would move between the different parts of the battle quite easily, and still get the illusion of the huge engagement.

Except that 50,000 is much less than 50,000 in WC3-SO. And you'd think that your radar would be able to detect the ships that are 50,000 away from you.

As for the Epees, having an ejection system in one of those doesn't help at all, since you can never reach the handle in time

.

In the Epee there is no time to even think about ejecting. Many times I'm killed, and I don't even know why.

 

[Quarto]

And where did I say a carrier is a cruiser or a battleship?

Why, you didn't of course

. But you did talk about Confed not holding anything back because if they lost Sol then all was lost.

The Hakagas could very well go into combat with other capships though. HOwever, the Kilrathi ships except of few squadrons stayed around the carriers to protect them from any attacks.

Undoubtedly... at least with other carriers. Even with their multiple layers of armour and all that, their armament probably wouldn't have been sufficient to defend themselves against a determined destroyer assault.

But.... that's what.... I... meant....

Yes, now that I read your post again, that is what you meant... in the first sentence. Then your last two or three sentences seemed to imply that Confed would throw everything into combat, no matter the cost... quit confusing me

.

Except that 50,000 is much less than 50,000 in WC3-SO. And you'd think that your radar would be able to detect the ships that are 50,000 away from you.

Fortunately, we're not talking about WC3-SO here, but rather about WC2. Well, actually we're talking about halfway between WC2 and 3.

In the Epee there is no time to even think about ejecting. Many times I'm killed, and I don't even know why.

I know what you mean... but I've figured out why it happens. The reason is named Bear, Confed's worst pilot ever (he could have been better, had they given him his own AI

). Like Nighthawk said, I'm glad he's commanding capships now - at least he doesn't endanger any more of our pilots

.
Oh, and of course the other generic wingmen are also quite deadly. The thing about the Epee is that it cannot handle a blast from twin particle cannons - which means that a wingman really only needs to hit you once or twice for you to die.

 

[Death's Head]

Like Nighthawk said, I'm glad he's commanding capships now - at least he doesn't endanger any more of our pilots

*ROFLMAO* He hit me more often than he hit enemies when I flew with him - if he lived long enough to squeeze the trigger. And he was out training pilots, no wonder why he lost so many under his command. On a capship he can't do as much damage sitting out every engagement.

------------------
A wingmen is essential; they give the enemy something else to shoot at.

 

[klaus]

Heh. Put him in the command of a Plunkett...

Everybody would run away, even the confed pilots...

Hmmm... Perhaps that idea could be used by one of our fanfic writers?

------------------
"This matter winds itself ever in new riddles.", Faramir - The Lord of The Rings

[This message has been edited by klaus (edited March 17, 2000).]

 

[Earthworm]

And where did I say a carrier is a cruiser or a battleship?

Why, you didn't of course

. But you did talk about Confed not holding anything back because if they lost Sol then all was lost.[/QUOTE]

True, but buy saying they didn’t hold back any carriers, I meant that none of the carriers retreated out of the system, and that they used all fighters from those carriers.

The Hakagas could very well go into combat with other capships though. HOwever, the Kilrathi ships except of few squadrons stayed around the carriers to protect them from any attacks.
Undoubtedly... at least with other carriers. Even with their multiple layers of armour and all that, their armament probably wouldn't have been sufficient to defend themselves against a determined destroyer assault.

Actually the Hakaga could very easily fight with cruisers and smaller ships.

But.... that's what.... I... meant....
Yes, now that I read your post again, that is what you meant... in the first sentence. Then your last two or three sentences seemed to imply that Confed would throw everything into combat, no matter the cost... quit confusing me

.

Yeah, except that carriers part of combat is to launch fighters. Of course they didn’t send the carriers at the cats (though the cats found the carriers later

)

Except that 50,000 is much less than 50,000 in WC3-SO. And you'd think that your radar would be able to detect the ships that are 50,000 away from you.
Fortunately, we're not talking about WC3-SO here, but rather about WC2. Well, actually we're talking about halfway between WC2 and 3.

But the distance in WC1, WC2 is limited because of the engine. WC3 and above have much more accurate distances.

In the Epee there is no time to even think about ejecting. Many times I'm killed, and I don't even know why.

I know what you mean... but I've figured out why it happens. The reason is named Bear, Confed's worst pilot ever (he could have been better, had they given him his own AI

). Like Nighthawk said, I'm glad he's commanding capships now - at least he doesn't endanger any more of our pilots

.
Oh, and of course the other generic wingmen are also quite deadly. The thing about the Epee is that it cannot handle a blast from twin particle cannons - which means that a wingman really only needs to hit you once or twice for you to die.

Except that you only fly with Bear once when in Epees. All wingman can kill you easily when you’re in the Epee. Bear isn’t definitely the worst. Also, though right now Bear is an Admiral, he was flying fighters of the Mjolnir (a recovered Bhantkara class heavy carrier) in 2671. And we can assume that he was flying later for couple of years.

 

[Death's Head]

Heh. Put him in the command of a Plunkett...Everybody would run away, even the confed pilots...Hmmm... Perhaps that idea could be used by one of our fanfic writers?

Heh. I'll get right on it.

Except that you only fly with Bear once when in Epees. All wingman can kill you easily when you’re in the Epee.

Not really.

Also, though right now Bear is an Admiral

Ever hear of the most incompetant commander in history, General Ambrose Everett Burnside "Burnsides", (1824-1881) an American Civil War General?

For the Record, Bear-frmr callsign, is a Rear Admiral, which is two grades below Admiral.

[This message has been edited by Death's Head (edited March 17, 2000).]

 

[Earthworm]

Except that you only fly with Bear once when in Epees. All wingman can kill you easily when you’re in the Epee.[/b]

Not really.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean not realy? The only time you fly in an Epee with Bear near you is when you go to lead him and his wingman to the Concordia. Than at the end of SO1 when you're flying Sabres. And yes, all wingman can kill you. There isn't anything special about Bear's AI that would make him shot at you more often than any other wingman.

Also, though right now Bear is an Admiral.

Ever hear of the most incompetant commander in history, General Ambrose Everett Burnside "Burnsides", (1824-1881) an American Civil War General?

No, I didn't. What about him?

For the Record, Bear-frmr callsign, is a Rear Admiral, which is two grades below Admiral.

Um, OK, except that if he's a Rear Admiral, like said in AS, he is an Admiral.

Notice that Tolwyn, and other Rear Admirals/ Vice Admirals, are usualy refered to as Admirals. Saying, "Rear Admiral Geoffry Tolwyn, you are requested in the...... " doesen't sound good as "Admiral Geoffry Tolwyn, you are requested in the...... And I doubt that he would get rid of his callsign just because he doesen't fly.

 

[Quarto]

Actually the Hakaga could very easily fight with cruisers and smaller ships.

I don't know about that. A Waterloo-class could probably outmaneouvre it, and easily destroy it with its AMGs. Remember, the Hakaga is quite a large, lumbering beast. Even a Gilgamesh might give it a hard time.

But the distance in WC1, WC2 is limited because of the engine. WC3 and above have much more accurate distances.

How do you know? Maybe the distances in WC1 and 2 were the accurate ones, and in WC3 somebody just decided that it would be cool to make really huge distances...

Except that you only fly with Bear once when in Epees. All wingman can kill you easily when you’re in the Epee. Bear isn’t definitely the worst.

Did I mention that the time you fly a Sabre, Bear usually knocks off your rear turret

? As for Epees, once is quite enough. And Bear probably is the worst - he uses the generic AI, anyway. I'll have to check at some point, to what difficulty level his AI's usually set.

Also, though right now Bear is an Admiral, he was flying fighters of the Mjolnir (a recovered Bhantkara class heavy carrier) in 2671. And we can assume that he was flying later for couple of years.

Dammit. Just when I thought the world was safe for pilots. When are they going to court-martial him for all those pilots he killed

?

Who the hell is "Burnsides"?


[This message has been edited by Quarto (edited March 17, 2000).]

 

[Earthworm]

Actually the Hakaga could very easily fight with cruisers and smaller ships.
I don't know about that. A Waterloo-class could probably outmaneouvre it, and easily destroy it with its AMGs. Remember, the Hakaga is quite a large, lumbering beast. Even a Gilgamesh might give it a hard time.

A Gligamesh!

The Bhantkara could take several torpedo hits, and don't have any serious damage. She also has helluva lot of medium/heavy guns.

But the distance in WC1, WC2 is limited because of the engine. WC3 and above have much more accurate distances.
How do you know? Maybe the distances in WC1 and 2 were the accurate ones, and in WC3 somebody just decided that it would be cool to make really huge distances...

Somehow I doubt that.....

Except that you only fly with Bear once when in Epees. All wingman can kill you easily when you’re in the Epee. Bear isn’t definitely the worst.
Did I mention that the time you fly a Sabre, Bear usually knocks off your rear turret

?

Not realy. Actualy it's Hobbes that's doing it to me.

As for Epees, once is quite enough. And Bear probably is the worst - he uses the generic AI, anyway. I'll have to check at some point, to what difficulty level his AI's usually set.

Like I said, I didn't see any difference between his AI and most other pilots. He's AI is as good (or maybe as bad) as the other pilots when you're in an Epee.

Also, though right now Bear is an Admiral, he was flying fighters of the Mjolnir (a recovered Bhantkara class heavy carrier) in 2671. And we can assume that he was flying later for couple of years.
Dammit. Just when I thought the world was safe for pilots. When are they going to court-martial him for all those pilots he killed

?

Probably never since he's one of the biges heros of the TK war. And now he's in Landreich (or did he go back to Confed?), and they don't care much about stuff like that.

Who the hell is "Burnsides"?

Um, WTF?

 

[Quarto]

A Gligamesh! The Bhantkara could take several torpedo hits, and don't have any serious damage. She also has helluva lot of medium/heavy guns.

Actually, it does have serious damage when that happens. Prince Thrakhath decided to send one home after it took four torp hits. At any rate, this isn't torps we're talking about. It's AMGs. And I don't know exactly how much it has in the way of guns, but they would be placed all around the ship, to deter fighters. Waterloos and Gilgameshes have their AMGs all placed up front, so they can concentrate their fire on one spot of the enemy ship, and at the same time, do not expose their broadside to the enemy.

Somehow I doubt that.....

That may be so... <smug> but you have no proof

.

Like I said, I didn't see any difference between his AI and most other pilots. He's AI is as good (or maybe as bad) as the other pilots when you're in an Epee.

Too bad, because I hate him anyway

.

Um, WTF?

That was directed at Death's Head. He's the one who brought that "Burnsides" guy up.

 

[Earthworm]

A Gligamesh! The Bhantkara could take several torpedo hits, and don't have any serious damage. She also has helluva lot of medium/heavy guns.

Actually, it does have serious damage when that happens. Prince Thrakhath decided to send one home after it took four torp hits. At any rate, this isn't torps we're talking about. It's AMGs. And I don't know exactly how much it has in the way of guns, but they would be placed all around the ship, to deter fighters. Waterloos and Gilgameshes have their AMGs all placed up front, so they can concentrate their fire on one spot of the enemy ship, and at the same time, do not expose their broadside to the enemy.

I'm sure that Hakagas have their share of AMG's, and it's not like AMG's are as strong as torps. You would need 10 or so AMG's to equal one torp hit.

Somehow I doubt that.....
That may be so... <smug> but you have no proof

.

Neither do you.

Like I said, I didn't see any difference between his AI and most other pilots. He's AI is as good (or maybe as bad) as the other pilots when you're in an Epee.
Too bad, because I hate him anyway

.

Well I do, and you shall obey me! Thou shall like Bear.

 

[Knight]

Neither do you.

Then why in the **** are you fighting about it?

(forgot the smilies)

------------------
HTML Assistant: WC Space Command
Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Striking a man down with your blade is clean and honorable. Shooting him in the back from the darkness of an alley and hurrying to blame it on another was something else altogether.--Darth Vader

[This message has been edited by Knight (edited March 17, 2000).]

 

[Quarto]

I'm sure that Hakagas have their share of AMG's, and it's not like AMG's are as strong as torps. You would need 10 or so AMG's to equal one torp hit.

It only took one accurate blast from the Concordia's 8 AMGs to take down a Fralthra or even K'tithrak Mang (in one of HCl's missions). And a Gilgamesh's two AMGs did very well against the Fralthra too. Therefore, 2 AMGs = 1 torp. A Waterloo will only need to fire its four guns three times (for a total of 6 torps) to knock a Hakaga permanently out of the fight.

Neither do you.

Yes, but you yourself said that older sources are more accurate

.

Quarto says:
Too bad, because I hate him anyway .
Earthworm replies:
Well I do, and you shall obey me! Thou shall like Bear.

You hate him too

? Then why should I like him

?

 

[Death's Head]

He's some incompetant General that reminds me of Rear Admiral Bonderevski, and I already pointed out who he was. Do you want his biography? My point was that even if he is an Admiral, it doesn't make him a hero, much less a fair commander.

I can't stand the character Bear.

Earthworm, I never said all wingman can't kill you you, I said it wasn't really easy for wingman to kill you. Unless, uh you fly like Bear.

Request-could you settle down when you do those quotes-it's not so easy to tell what you're quoting and who, sometimes I have to read it more than once to figuire out what your getting at.

 

[Knight]

Request-could you settle down when you do those quotes-it's not so easy to tell what you're quoting and who, sometimes I have to read it more than once to figuire out what your getting at.

I agree. DH, you forgot to mention that its also expanding load times to extreme measures (at least when your bandwidth is getting ate up by MP3s D/Ling.)And it is getting hard to follow.

------------------
HTML Assistant: WC Space Command
Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Striking a man down with your blade is clean and honorable. Shooting him in the back from the darkness of an alley and hurrying to blame it on another was something else altogether.--Darth Vader