Reflection on Re: "Poll On Game Engines"

A

AzrialX

Guest
Is it just me or did Death's reply, seem like what certain persons would say???
And, note that I said persons not person, I've been just as guilty as the rest...

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Call me a Pleb, you die!!! Got it fly boy?!?
Well do ya!?! Well punk!?! Because you know maybe, just maybe, when I'm flyin on your wing...my auto track could just mistake you for the Roach you are...got that...Ace!?! Sure you do...wouldn't want to get that nice squad jacket all mussed up now would we..?
 
OK Azriel, when a post has been shut down, whether you think it be for good or bad reasons, please don't post it on the board
(I really can't stop you) but it leads to arguments. If you have a problem speak to the Mod or Admin in question (in this case Death) in a non-public forum (eg. e-mail or ICQ) so that he can give his explination for his actions. If, after that, you have a real problem then send a civil letter to a different staff member in protest of the action (a rude letter will never get you anywhere). But if you have a problem please don't bring it here as it won't bring good conversation just disagreements.

You don't really have to listen to me but that's just my opinion.

TC

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CAG of the Blacklance HQ
"Canadian and proud of it"-TC
 
I don't know what 'certain person' you're referring to, at least if not Frosty, but You are more than welcome to mail me to POLITELY discuss my decisions, in any matter involving this CZ. Simply acusing me of being a Frosty toady ain't polite discussion.

In the nearly 3 years I've been involved in the online WC community (no, that's not a brag or anything like that; why brag of having no life?
wink.gif
), I've seen quite a few practical demonstrations of the reasoning I gave for closting the thread in question.

For some, the suggestion that something might have been done better in Product A than Product B is tantamount to a legitimate reason for declaring a jihad on anyone who makes such a suggestion. Those 'some,' with a 99% or so probability in my experience, usually reply with hateful/abusive comments, either in their initial reply(ies) or after several rounds of back-and-forth posts.

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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild



[This message has been edited by Death (edited January 20, 2000).]
 
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No Death I'm not refuring to you...I'm using your example as an example.

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Call me a Pleb, you die!!! Got it fly boy?!?
Well do ya!?! Well punk!?! Because you know maybe, just maybe, when I'm flyin on your wing...my auto track could just mistake you for the Roach you are...got that...Ace!?! Sure you do...wouldn't want to get that nice squad jacket all mussed up now would we..?
 
I was the one who put up the "stupid topic" I don't see what's so stupid about it I just wanted to know what other people think about similar games that came out at about the same time. I like some of the things like gun harmonization and presets for power distribution and the many pop-up hud displays.
Like I said before I have been gone for a long time and haven't witnessed much of these transitional times. So forgive my apparent ignorance, I haven't been taking WC seriously of late.
 
When you've seen as many "X vs Y" threads as people like Death and myself have, you know that such threads always end with arguments and general flaming.

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Barrie "Cpl Hades" Almond
balmond@wcnews.com
 
That's because some people are just immature such people shouldn't even be allowed to an opinion. Anyway it seems that there just isn't that much that is of interest since i've been back. By nature, people are flamers. Hehe the only arguing I've been in is about some fool who thought the Kilrathi dreadnought was 22km long. As for product vs. product I'm not asking which is better to be argumentative, rather to see how the WC game can be improved upon based on what people like.
 
"shouldn't even be allowed an opinion?"

I really don't think you want to go there, DH...

As for the rest, I didn't say the topic was stupid. "Stupid" is what Vs. threads evolve into. Also, regardless of your intentions, it's a virtual guarantee that someone will take it as a personal affront that one would even dare to hint at the merest suggestion that one product may do things "better" (comparisons along the lines of "better" or "worse" being subjective as hell in and of themselves), and react like a raving lunatic (no offense intended to real raving lunatics).

We (admins/moderators) simply feel that it's easier to put out a fire when it's a single match, than later when the entire forest is burning.

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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild



[This message has been edited by Death (edited January 20, 2000).]
 
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Death's Head- that person wasn't a fool.

Right Kalkrath, the Kilrathi Dreadnought is 22 kilometers long. It's also in the novel False Colors. The Dreadnought is prety big in the WC3 engine, but it couldn't be made 22k big because the technology wouldn't allow it. (maybe it would, but it would take hours for the mission to load with that ship)

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Uh excuse me Mr.Cat, sir, but would you mind like ceasing fire for a little while so we can barbecue your god-ugly asses? Todd "Maniac" Marshall Wing Commander Pilgrim Stars
 
Let's look at it from the clan's point of view. Now, I pressure most of us know that the Kirathi capitol ships are built by individual clans, if not well that's ok. Now thrak's clan decided to allocate resources throughout the empire so his family could build the Kilrathi Dreadnought. How is it that a single family could afford to build a dozen ship that are almost FOUR times as long as the Behemoth? Is there any family you know of on Earth that could buy 12 ships about 22 times the size of a Nimitz class carrier(standard fleet carrier)?? There are only two dreadnought types we see in the games. The first was the Sivar, which wasn't really that big in the first place, and second the one we first see in WC3, the name of which I can't remember, but that is about twice as long as the standard strike carrier, which was about 1km in length. How is it possible that we come up with a length of say 22km?
I guess the main reason I doubt the validity of the length 22km is that in the reference material from KS, the Longbow has the same amament as the T-bolt and both have the same performance( does a longbow do a complete circle three times a second??). Also, since when does the Hellcat have two lasers and two ions? Like I have said before don't believe everything you read.
Perhaps fool was a bit harsh a term I give you that. But if you read a newspaper that says Death Valley is 2000 miles below sea level would you believe that?
BTW, the error of length I believe was repeated in the novel you refer to if it is there, but the two ships are the same. Unless you talk about the new heavy carrier in false colors that is of a different type. But the first attack on Earth used the Dreadnoughts, like the one in False colors and the one Thrak rode in Heart of the Tiger.
It was not my intention to be hostile but rather to keep things strait.
biggrin.gif
 
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OK how do you know how long the Behemoth was to compare it with the Dreadnought, second the Dreadnought has many empty spaces in it's structure. And how do you know that there were a dozen of the Dreadnoughts made? It wasn't said anywhere. Erm, the carriers used to attack earth weren't the Dreadnoughts, they were new super carriers the kilrahti build, that were about two times the size of a standard fleet carrier but were not the Dreadnoughts. The Karga from False Colors isn't a new class, it's the same class of a carrier that we saw in WC3. And many times in FC it is said that the Dreadnought dwarfs the 1 kilometer long Karga. How can a ship that's 2 kilometers in length dwarf a ship that's half of it's length. Also, all of the manuals have some mistakes. We know that the stats for the Longbow are wrong, but there's no way to know if the Dreadnoughts stats are wrong.

You have the Hakaga (sp?) class super carriers from FA confused with the Dreadnought.

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Uh excuse me Mr.Cat, sir, but would you mind like ceasing fire for a little while so we can barbecue your god-ugly asses? Todd "Maniac" Marshall Wing Commander Pilgrim Stars

[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited January 20, 2000).]
 
Must we talk about this again? The manuals are rife with errors. There's nothing we can do about it, and there's no way to conclusively prove either side of the argument. That's why sometimes it's better to just go by your own opinion, and let others have theirs.
 
I missed all the fun again, didn't I?

Drat.




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Hats off to the new-age hairstyle made of bones,
Hats off to the use of hats as megaphones...

-Frosty
 
The Kilrathi dreadnought is 22 km long, it says so both in the KS manual, and in False Colors. It doesn't get any more canon than that.

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Zohrath.

http://www.starlancer.net - Lancers HQ, the best source for Starlancer and Freelancer news.
 
I'm not even going to say "I AM right" or anything like that but when I see the VIctory ram the dreadnought in WC3 there's no way that ship is 30 times as long as the Victory. If you have ever flown the Excalibur into the dreadnought in Proxima or whereever that is, you could probably tell that it's shorter than the Behemoth, which I "think" I know is 6km long.
As far as the large carriers being the same, the captured carrier could not be the same on in fleet action because of several things mentioned. First, the carriers launched against Earth had 6 launch bays and the one with a radiated crew had 2 as far as I know. Second, the first carrier had several dozen weapons of all kind including missile tubes, while the newer carrier had only several laser turrets, probably only a dozen plus several smaller lasers.
I just don't know what else to say. I think I will let this one go.
 
The dreadnaught is 22km long. However, with the WC3 game engine, loading it up for a mission (ok, the only one it's in) would take a long time, given the minimum/required specs the game had. Therefore, Origin cheated, as you only see 1 'naught, and that's only if you get to the last losing mission.

As for the KIS Karga in False Colors, it wasn't a Hakaga-class carrier, but it was part of a seperate class of carriers, bigger/better equiped than the kat carrier you see in some missions of WC3.

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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild
 
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Isn't the Karga suposed to be the standard Kilrathi fleet carrier from WC3?

Death's Head- the Behemoth is much larger than six kilometers. When both the Vic, and the Behemoth jump to another system you can see in the cutscene that it's MUCH larger than the Vic wich is around 700 meters. If the Behemoth was only 6 kilometers long it would be only about 9 times as long as the Victory. And we can clearly see it's much more that just 9 times.

>As far as the large carriers being the same, the captured carrier could not be the same on in fleet action because of several things mentioned.<

Who said that they were the same ship? If you mean me, I definetly didn't say that.



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Uh excuse me Mr.Cat, sir, but would you mind like ceasing fire for a little while so we can barbecue your god-ugly asses? Todd "Maniac" Marshall Wing Commander Pilgrim Stars
 
Yoaf, yoaf, it's LOAF! With problematic solutions to all your concerns... a few definitions first.

The Kilrathi heavy carriers in Fleet Action are Hakaga class. It is explained in False Colors that neither the Karga nor the Vorgrath are Hakaga class. Thus, they do not enter the equation.

The Karga is Bhantkara class, and is the same class of ship that we regularly see as a carrier in Wing Commander III. We know this because the Karga is described as being the exact same length and having the same number of turrets -- obviously Andrew Keith used Victory Streak as a reference when writing his novel. FC explains that the Bhantkara class carriers were comissioned by Thrakhath *after* the Battle of Earth, and they are technically inferior to the Hakaga class ships (but superior to the standard Snakeir class ships).

The Vorgrath (the Kilrathi Dreadnought) is the 22 km long dreadnought seen in Wing Commander III. Again, the length and turrets are given as exactly the same as stated in Victory Streak. We know that the ship is actually 22km long because this is a necessary plot point for the book -- we also know that it is "larger than the Behemoth" (which was simulated as 11km long in the WC3 engine, for reference) according to FC. There were a number of these massive dreadnoughts built after the Battle of Terra, given that this was stated in False Colors and we see several of them in the end of Wing Commander III. (We know the names of two others, the Vengeance of Vukar Tag and the Hvar Kann).

Furthermore, the issue of a single clan producing such a ship is actually a non-issue. The 'Kiranka clan' is *NOT* the same as 'that Henderson family next door'. You can't compare them in the same familial sense as you would with humans -- because the Kilrathi do *NOT* have a single central government/military complex producing ships. The *one* way they build craft and crew warships is through the various clans -- who devote most of their efforts to doing this. Think of it rather as a nation being able to bring to bear the resources to build such a ship.

Further note, there is no evidence that the Kiranka clan funded the 22km long dreadnoughts -- if you'll recall, the one we know the most about was captained by a commoner!


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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
(loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC
http://www.wcnews.com

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG
 
You go LOAF.

>The Kilrathi heavy carriers in Fleet Action are Hakaga class. It is explained in False Colors that neither the Karga nor the Vorgrath are Hakaga class. Thus, they do not enter the equation.
The Karga is Bhantkara class, and is the same class of ship that we regularly see as a carrier in Wing Commander III.<

Yay I was right.




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Uh excuse me Mr.Cat, sir, but would you mind like ceasing fire for a little while so we can barbecue your god-ugly asses? Todd "Maniac" Marshall Wing Commander Pilgrim Stars
 
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