Quick Qs about "carriers"

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Nob Akimoto

Rear Admiral
Are the Kilrathi "fleet carriers"(Or "Old Style" carriers, if it's FA), all Snakeirs? Or did the Kitties have some sort of interim design(I don't see why not...it'd be rather illogical for them not to....) since if there wasn't I was planning on making a new one for the XWA-WCTC(so it wouldn't be canon, but it'd add a bit more variety.)

Also is there ever a mention of the A.The CV designation for the Wolfhound, and B.The class of ship the Trafalgar in End Run is(I remember it's something like a CVA..but I forget what exact series it is....)

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"I hope you make it, Tarkington. Just don't pull the handle till after we've hit. Promise me."
"I'm behind you all the way CAG..."
-Captain Jacob Lee "Coolhand" Grafton, and Lieutenant Robert "Toad" Tarkington, Final Flight
 
Are the Kilrathi "fleet carriers"(Or "Old Style" carriers, if it's FA), all Snakeirs? Or did the Kitties have some sort of interim design(I don't see why not...it'd be rather illogical for them not to....) since if there wasn't I was planning on making a new one for the XWA-WCTC(so it wouldn't be canon, but it'd add a bit more variety.)
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Well, IIRC the Snakiers only had 40 fighters, so they realy aren't fleet carriers. I think that the Bhantkara (sp?) carriers from WC3 are the ones used in the novels.

Also is there ever a mention of the A.The CV designation for the Wolfhound, and B.The class of ship the Trafalgar in End Run is(I remember it's something like a CVA..but I forget what exact series it is....)
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IIRC the Wolfhound from ER, on which Admiral Banbridge was, was a Bengal class carrier, and I think the Trafalgar was also a Bengal class.

Kalkrath says: They also have the Bhantkara and the Hagaka or whatever classes.
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The Hakaga class were the new super carriers that were used to attack Terra. They weren't used before the BoT, and after the BoT there were only two left (unless they finished the rest), from which one was completly cripled.


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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton

[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited February 15, 2000).]
 
The Fralthi, not the Fralthra.
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And the Fralthi only caries that many when it's configures as a light carrier. The Fralthi from the movie carries 50 fighter though IIRC.

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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton
 
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My bad, but since we were talking about Snakiers I compared it to a Fralthi. Anyhow, the number in the KS manual could be a mistake. The KS manual also says that the Dorkathi, a 96m long transport caries 40 fighters.
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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton
 
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Well IIRC from the threads here it seemed to indicate that the Bhantkara class carriers weren't around till AFTER the Hakaga class was made.

And if you haven't already noticed, yes I'm planning the Battle of Vukar Tag. I just happened to lose my copy of End Run(in a fire, as some people may know), so I was curious about the smaller details for carriers, that I had forgotten.

IMO the Snakeir looks like it's too small according to whatever sources show it's length and fighter compliment...I mean it's hull/shields were like 20 times tougher than a Fralthi(okay that's an exaggeration, but still that's how it FELT like).

As for the Wolfhound, I was wondering what's it's registry number(that the right word?) was. Like the Confed class Concordia was CVS-65, Lexington CV-44, Victory CV-40, Tawara CVE-7etc.

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"I hope you make it, Tarkington. Just don't pull the handle till after we've hit. Promise me."
"I'm behind you all the way CAG..."
-Captain Jacob Lee "Coolhand" Grafton, and Lieutenant Robert "Toad" Tarkington, Final Flight


[This message has been edited by Nob Akimoto (edited February 15, 2000).]
 
Well IIRC from the threads here it seemed to indicate that the Bhantkara class carriers weren't around till AFTER the Hakaga class was made.
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Mind if I ask what threads? The name of the class of the Kilrathi fleet carriers from ER, and FA (not the Hakaga) isn't ever given, but it's very likely that they are the Bhantkara.



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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton
 
Oookay...

The Kilrathi *do* have another type of fleet carrier -- the 'generic' carrier seen in the Wing Commander Academy series. Things like the Bhankatra's and the Hakagas were special carriers that only entered service towards the end of the war. The Snakeir is a full fledged fleet carrier with an appropriate compliment of fighters -- read your Super WIng Commander manuals for the stats.

The Wolfhound is not given a CV designation, and the Trafalgar is called only CVA. The WOlfhound is a Bengal, the Trafalger in End Run is *NOT* a Bengal. There was a Trafalger on WCA that *was* a Bengal, but they are certainly not the same ship...

Earthworm: End Run takes place in 2667. The Bhantkara class ships entered service in 2669. Furthermore, the Bhantkaras are not *fleet* carriers, but rather *heavy* carriers.

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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG




[This message has been edited by Bandit LOAF (edited February 15, 2000).]
 
Earthworm: End Run takes place in 2667. The Bhantkara class ships entered service in 2669. Furthermore, the Bhantkaras are not *fleet* carriers, but rather *heavy* carriers.
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Doesen't heavy, and fleet carrier mean the same thing? Anyhow, the Bhantkara is also refered to as a super carrier in False Colors.
 
Kalkrath said:
What was the purpose of the Bhantkara class?
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Um, what? The Bhantkara is a carrier, it's purpose is to be a fighter launching platform (though it could stand in a fight against a small capship, and if it's lucky, against a cruiser).



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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton
 
Oh, I'm sure the Kilrathi built them to deliver flowers to people. If you need to be told the purpose of a carrier, you're probably in the wrong place.

A heavy (or 'super') carrier is one step up from a fleet (or 'regular') carrier. The Vesuvius and Midway classes are heavy, the Concordia class is fleet. (Sounds like some sort of stupid online gangsta talk
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Yo, dis Concordia b3 FL33T!).

------------------
Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG
 
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Hmm that might be a problem....oh well just for the sake of it, I'll be giving the Wolfhound a CV-09 designation(Claw was 07, Kipling most likely 08, seeing as the Hound was a sister of the Claw, 09 seems okay),unless too many people disagree(I'd rather give it a 40s number...hmm).

The Trafalgar in End Run....could it be a similar class to the Lexington in Armada? I sorta doubt Confed would build a totally new carrier class(nor would have the capacity after the BoT) and rather renamed a newly commissioned ship Lexington and fitted it with mining equipment and such. Letting a assault carrier like ship take care of something like that mission would make sense IMO. And seriously would confed only use Concordia class carriers(as in design doctorine was calling for multiple launch bay ships during the back lash era...) if it were a war?

BTW could someone with a SWC manual list the stats of a Snakeir?

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"I hope you make it, Tarkington. Just don't pull the handle till after we've hit. Promise me."
"I'm behind you all the way CAG..."
-Captain Jacob Lee "Coolhand" Grafton, and Lieutenant Robert "Toad" Tarkington, Final Flight
 
Kalkrath I'm not sure what you mean by special purpose could you ellaborate on that?

The difference between a fleet carrier and a heavy carrier is this: the fleet carrier can be commanded by a fleet commander which can be likened to a carrier group following orders from the carrier admiral or captain. Fleet carriers are usually the mainstay carrier type of a naval force.

Both the Midway and the Vesuvius type are heavy carriers but the Midway is a fleet carrier.

A heavy carrier is usually defined by having a very large and diverse fighter complement and a heavy hull and sometimes having a substancial armament of it's own.

I think the Vesuvius for, instance is a heavy carrier, but not a fleet carrier, because it seems to be more expensive and is not produced in large numbers, 10 is a large number of ships for fleet carriers, whereas 1-4 is comparably small.

With what we saw for an amament for the Vesuvius, it could be considered a battle carrier, like a heavy cruiser with heavier guns and added speed meant to engage other cap ships, so was the Vesuvius. The new armor it had when launched seems to support the need to stand up in a firefight. Having added maneuverability brings those guns to bear.

I know Earthworm's going to dispute this, if so I suggest you support your argument rather than saying no it's not a battle carrier. Any other comments are welcome.
 
Now why would Earthworm do that?

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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton
 
Kalk: Yes and no.

It's 'special purpose' is to launch fighters. It's a heavy carrier, which should pretty much tell you everything you need to know.

Carriers are usually given numbers in blocks of ten. So 0-9 would all be Bengals (and probably another series, given the number of Bengals that exist). The 40 series were Ranger class light carriers during the war, and Concordia class fleet carriers afterwards.

The Trafalgar in End Run was a 'CVA', which means 'Attack Aircraft Carrier' -- a designation that no longer exists IRL, IIRC. The Lexington was a special unique 'self sufficient' carrier. If I had to guess, I would say that the Trafalgar was a Confederation class dreadnought -- the class that makes the most sense. Concordia class carriers *do* have multiple bays, though.

You're all confused on fleet versus heavy. A *heavy* carrier can be a fleet carrier, but a fleet carrier cannot necessarily be heavy. The idea behind a heavy carrier is that it carries *MORE* fighters and support craft than a regular ship. It's also large, but it is *NOT* a battleship -- it's supported by a fleet just like a regular carrier.


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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG
 
Groan, do I actually have to explain my witty insults to you? *yes*, I think you're an idiot and *no* I don't think you've never played WC. And don't raise a ruckus, you asked. Now shoo.

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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG
 
Well I'm not sure about the Trafalgar being a Confed class dread in End Run(just the fact that if it was I think it would have been described as the Concordia's twin,) and IIRC Confederation class dreadnaughts were CVSes weren't they?(Special Carrier Vessel?)
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Just thought that the Lexington could have been BASED on an attack carrier design.

Also what was so different about the Gettysburg that made her into a "fleet carrier"(IIRC that's what all 4 ships at Vukar were called, generically), I always thought it was a Waterloo class cruiser, did Confed have a carrier variant like the Kilrathi had with the Fralthi?

Oh and I think one thing a "heavy" carrier would be designed for, is to serve as a midpoint refuel/rearm area for fighters in an engagement. In WW2 there were several IJN carrier designs that were made to be incedibly tough and stand up to enemy attacks and handle cycling of fighters(land ,new pilot, refuel, rearm, launch,) while letting "fleet" carriers be stationed further back, hence being safer than if they were in a frontline engagement(carriers thought not slouches aren't the best defended things in the world), I believe the fly through design of the Vesuvius's flight deck(which would allow her to recover far more fighters than say an enclosed non flythroughable deck), and the new armor on her, as well as a substantially heavier armnament could support that theory(thought not prove it
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). A "battle" carrier or assault carrier, would probably be labeled more as a "dreadnaught"(there's actually no classification for this in historical navies AFAIK) which seems to mean anything that can act as a stand alone fleet.

Also please...Snakeir stats...I sorta find it hard to believe a carrier would be something like 400 meters long and carrier 40 fighters.

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"I hope you make it, Tarkington. Just don't pull the handle till after we've hit. Promise me."
"I'm behind you all the way CAG..."
-Captain Jacob Lee "Coolhand" Grafton, and Lieutenant Robert "Toad" Tarkington, Final Flight
 
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It is my own opinion that the snakeirs hold more than 40, at least until I get a definate size. I've been judging by the bridge which, gives the ship a slightly greater length than 400m if the bridge is size of the T-claw. I only now got wcnav to work I will be doing some scaling soon.
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Loaf what I meant by the megacarriers being heavy is that they are simply larger than a CVS or CVA.
 
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The Snakeir is *600* meters long, not 400. And it holds a 'full' complement of fighters (All according to the SWC stats).

Yes, the Concordia is CVS (the historical designation CVS doesn't apply, as that it refers to submarine hunting) -- but I mean, look how many different designations the Yortktown went through.

The 'fly-through' deck is purely an engine thing... it's not an *actual* carrier design change -- *ALL* carriers have open bays of some sort (you know what I mean). The heavy carriers are *not* designed to engage the enemy point blank ('strike' carriers are). They form the nucleus of battlegroups and such. A fighter capable dreadnought is *not* designed to operate alone (well, no carrier is designed to operate alone, but strike carriers can come close) -- the Confederation class ships we see almost always have escorts.

The term 'megacarrier' isn't a military designation -- the Midway is official a 'heavy carrier'.

There was nothing different about the Gettysburg, it was a Waterloo class Cruiser -- apparently a fairly rare bird, though (given its ability to carry 40 fighters and the importants attributed to it End Run).


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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG
 
Thanks for all the info.

BTW where was the Wolfhound during the Bot? Had she been broken down into scrap? Or was she one of the ships that was docked at the naval bases when they were nuked?(would partially explain why Hobbes was no longer a wing commander on a ship...IIRC Hobbes commanded the Wolfhound's wing in End Run, according to one of Bear's lines, that and how the Kilrathi had pulled off a surprise attack, probably made quite a few people skeptical about Hobbes's loyalties as well, though obvisouly Blair still trusted him...)

[This message has been edited by Nob Akimoto (edited February 17, 2000).]
 
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