In the mission where I come out of the jump point to clear a path for the TCS Lionheart, I don't even last for 1 minute. It seems all the Talon fighters in the area would concentrate on me. I have hard enough time trying to deal with one Talon when one of its friends are shooting at me. The multiple red dots on the radar (probably from the other nav points) made it so confusing for me that I couldn't tell where the enemy is attacking from.
need help
- Thread starter pheeph
- Start date
Wedge009
Rogue Leader
Are you fairly new to Wing Commander? Try using the 'U' keyboard button - this will target the nearest hostile to you. You can also try Ctrl-M to bring up the nav map (press 'Z' to toggle between the local area and the whole star system) to see which fighters are targeting you specifically.
Dundradal
Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Those aren't from other nav points...you are just at party central.
You need to use your wingmen and your own flying skills here. Concentrate on one fighter at a time while spamming your wingmen to help you out.
Farbourne
Rear Admiral
Standoff is a bit intimidating the first time you play through it. By mixing the Vision engine, which allows massive furballs and puts a huge emphasis on speed and afterburning, with WC1 + 2 caliber weapon lethalities and armor/shield levels, the authors created a situation that is far more lethal (and, probably far more realistic) than in any other Wing Commander game, with the possible exception of WC4 (due to the good AI and the lethality of missiles in that game).
In Standoff, you NEED to follow Paladin's advice in Claw Marks--rank your own survival first and foremost, rather than hanging on to get the kill. A few tips:
* NEVER rush a target head on flying straight and level...even if you give as good as you receive, you're still going to receive a hell of a lot, and there are just too many adversaries to take a pounding each time you engage one.
* INSTEAD, get good at the "Shelton Slide" or "Undercut", aim to one side of the opponent, and intermittently tap your burners, and once you're inertia is built up, pull up and squeeze off a few shots at the target. OR simply juke ("shake, rattle, and roll") to close with him, not trying to hit him head on, and then get on his tail and take him out.
* NEVER allow someone to stay on your tail, firing at you. Even if you're in the process of finishing off his wingman. If someone gets on your six, break, burn, and evade. Don't rely on your shields and armor to protect you from the "first few hits"...do your best to avoid getting hit at all. Your shields and armor are there in case you occasionally make a mistake and get hit. Survive first.
* This is doubly true when flying a Stilletto. It's armor is practically non-existent.
* Use your AB fuel wisely, especially when flying a Gladius, which has precious little of it. Your AB fuel is your main tool for survival, as it allows evasive maneuvers, so don't waste it just trying to close with a target more quickly so you can get one more kill to pad your score.
* Bring up the Nav Map peridocially. Moreso than any other WC game, you'll need it. Not only does it pause the game and let you get your bearings, but you can see which enemies are targeting which ships (including you), and make strategic decisions accordingly. You can even pick a new target in this map, and when you leave the map, that target will be your current one, allowing you to close on a given enemy that is attacking a specific asset.
Keep in mind, with the exception of a few missions, most of the Wing Commander games were relatively easy--anyone with average video gaming skills could take the role of the "hero of the confederation" and rack up massive kill scores and hosts of successful missions relative to all the other pilots. Standoff is a bit more realistic...if you're not very careful, you will die. And if you're not very careful and quite skilled (and sometimes lucky), you will fail missions.
In Standoff, you NEED to follow Paladin's advice in Claw Marks--rank your own survival first and foremost, rather than hanging on to get the kill. A few tips:
* NEVER rush a target head on flying straight and level...even if you give as good as you receive, you're still going to receive a hell of a lot, and there are just too many adversaries to take a pounding each time you engage one.
* INSTEAD, get good at the "Shelton Slide" or "Undercut", aim to one side of the opponent, and intermittently tap your burners, and once you're inertia is built up, pull up and squeeze off a few shots at the target. OR simply juke ("shake, rattle, and roll") to close with him, not trying to hit him head on, and then get on his tail and take him out.
* NEVER allow someone to stay on your tail, firing at you. Even if you're in the process of finishing off his wingman. If someone gets on your six, break, burn, and evade. Don't rely on your shields and armor to protect you from the "first few hits"...do your best to avoid getting hit at all. Your shields and armor are there in case you occasionally make a mistake and get hit. Survive first.
* This is doubly true when flying a Stilletto. It's armor is practically non-existent.
* Use your AB fuel wisely, especially when flying a Gladius, which has precious little of it. Your AB fuel is your main tool for survival, as it allows evasive maneuvers, so don't waste it just trying to close with a target more quickly so you can get one more kill to pad your score.
* Bring up the Nav Map peridocially. Moreso than any other WC game, you'll need it. Not only does it pause the game and let you get your bearings, but you can see which enemies are targeting which ships (including you), and make strategic decisions accordingly. You can even pick a new target in this map, and when you leave the map, that target will be your current one, allowing you to close on a given enemy that is attacking a specific asset.
Keep in mind, with the exception of a few missions, most of the Wing Commander games were relatively easy--anyone with average video gaming skills could take the role of the "hero of the confederation" and rack up massive kill scores and hosts of successful missions relative to all the other pilots. Standoff is a bit more realistic...if you're not very careful, you will die. And if you're not very careful and quite skilled (and sometimes lucky), you will fail missions.
man, usually in Wing Commander standards, I'm able to deal with three enemy fighters. But since the battle involved almost more than ten fighters and several Tarsus ships, it's a suicide run...
Yeah, I learned about that Sheldon slide from the Privateer Remake manual. Perhaps I need to be farther to the side and not too close to their side.
So yeah, I'm not used to Wing Commander Prophecy's engine.
Yeah, I learned about that Sheldon slide from the Privateer Remake manual. Perhaps I need to be farther to the side and not too close to their side.
So yeah, I'm not used to Wing Commander Prophecy's engine.
Wedge009
Rogue Leader
As mentioned before, WCP allows for far larger battles than the engagements you participate in the earlier games. If you've had experience with WCP and/or Secret Ops, you will possibly be able to cope with Standoff a little better. Nonetheless, it is most certainly an interesting game-play, mixing WC2 mechanics with the Vision engine.
Farbourne
Rear Admiral
Farbourne's advice is the best you can get...so much so I think I might have to ask him to write the Standoff guide section on tactics....
Interested?
I'm flattered.
But maybe what I just said is mostly what I've got... especially because I haven't actually finished Standoff yet... (played into Ep 4 on a nine year old laptop, but was waiting till I get a chance to upgrade my computer so I can take advantage of all the new pretties before I go through Ep 5... in fact, from what I've heard, I probably should consider replaying the whole thing). I've actually played through Eps 1-3 three times (each time an episode was released), so one more won't hurt. I'd be happy to try to help contribute to the guide, but I'm sure other folks probably have some real good advice, too, that might go beyond what I've gotten good at yet (especially for situations with capship strikes flown in Rapiers, or scenarios where you have to try to shoot down torpedoes, which still gives me a bit of difficulty). Most of my tactical experience is in Rapiers, Stilettos, and Galdii.
In fact, now that Ep 5 is out and a lot of people have played through, I've been meaning to suggest a Standoff Tactics thread focused on general tactics (not "how do I take out this particular objective in this particular mission", but rather things like "what is a good maneuver to pull when flying a Stiletto against a bunch of Gothri's", or "what is the best position to be in to protect a ship's engines from torpedo attacks?"). I had a lot of trouble when I first started Standoff, and had to learn to completely change my flying style from the habits I had gotten into. Once I did that, I started surviving more, and then started winning more missions. I think just sharing tactics with other folks here could do a lot to help people new to Standoff (and people like me, that are now fine surviving a dogfight but are wishing to hone their mission win%). I'd been meaning to search to see if there was such a thread, and if not, maybe start one.
Prometheus
Spaceman
Barrel Rolls
I think it fits this thread well to continue here about flight technique and tactics.
I've got a question for the "aces" here about barrel rolls.
Are they important? Do you use them at all? How do you use them properly?
I'm asking this because in Wing Commander 1 and 2 barrel rolls were pretty much useless. It didn't really help that the keys you had to press were pretty much "out of reach", especially during the heat of battle. (Yes you could always barrel roll using the joystick, but in doing so you'd be unable to access the normal axes which very much defeats the purpose). In Standoff, being Q and W, they're readily available, as you already have your hand there for the Afterburner. Also it is true 3D which might be relevant. So I guess they're more important?
I've already tried using them more frequently, but more or less "randomly", and I don't feel I really got an advantage out of them. So, what are your suggestions about barrel rolls?
I think it fits this thread well to continue here about flight technique and tactics.
I've got a question for the "aces" here about barrel rolls.
Are they important? Do you use them at all? How do you use them properly?
I'm asking this because in Wing Commander 1 and 2 barrel rolls were pretty much useless. It didn't really help that the keys you had to press were pretty much "out of reach", especially during the heat of battle. (Yes you could always barrel roll using the joystick, but in doing so you'd be unable to access the normal axes which very much defeats the purpose). In Standoff, being Q and W, they're readily available, as you already have your hand there for the Afterburner. Also it is true 3D which might be relevant. So I guess they're more important?
I've already tried using them more frequently, but more or less "randomly", and I don't feel I really got an advantage out of them. So, what are your suggestions about barrel rolls?
Dundradal
Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Any time I feel rounds hit my rear shields I'll roll out. The only time I might use a true barrel roll is if I'm coming to engage a target from the side and I need to "roll into" his 6 o'clock position.
I use rolls for engaging and disengaging targets and if I'm trying to evade a missile.
I use rolls for engaging and disengaging targets and if I'm trying to evade a missile.
Prometheus
Spaceman
Funny thing to notice: If Wave 1 happens to be a Jalthi, and you fly towards it head on (yeah sounds like a stupid idea, but it will take quite some time until its in range so you can still pull out soon enough), the Jalthi will always try to maintain the same orientation as your ship. So if you roll 90 degrees, it too will roll 90 degrees to match you.
Propably other ships do the same but with Jalthi it's the easiest to see.
Jalthis are funny opponents anway
Propably other ships do the same but with Jalthi it's the easiest to see.
Jalthis are funny opponents anway
Mjr. Whoopass
<FONT color=lightblue><B>I was going to say someth
I didn't use barrel rolls in any of the other Wing Commander games since I was using a Mac with a basic joystick that didn't allow me to roll. The computer keyboard roll keys were nowhere near the afterburner and decoy keys I kept my fingers on, so it wasn't convenient to use them. If this is the case with you, make sure you still constantly change plane (don't fly in a straight line) so that you don't make as easy of a target. It's more effective in a dogfight to just turn one way and hold it, since if you're flying in one direction doing barrel rolls, you're making it harder to hit you, but you're probably just delaying the inevitable unless you try to get on someone's tail.
When I played Standoff, I had a better joystick that allowed me to roll. I now use it almost constantly. I primarily use it on approach to a capship so that I'm harder for the flak and any tailing fighters to hit. Also, if I'm trying to retreat or get to a certain spot (for instance, flying to take out a distant bomber), I'll do barrel rolls on my way there when someone's on my tail. I managed to beat WC3 and 4 on Nightmare without ever rolling, so I'm sure it's not completely necessary, but I think it helps a little. You can still change plane by moving up, down and side to side, but being able to roll adds just one more plane that you can change.
When I played Standoff, I had a better joystick that allowed me to roll. I now use it almost constantly. I primarily use it on approach to a capship so that I'm harder for the flak and any tailing fighters to hit. Also, if I'm trying to retreat or get to a certain spot (for instance, flying to take out a distant bomber), I'll do barrel rolls on my way there when someone's on my tail. I managed to beat WC3 and 4 on Nightmare without ever rolling, so I'm sure it's not completely necessary, but I think it helps a little. You can still change plane by moving up, down and side to side, but being able to roll adds just one more plane that you can change.
Prometheus
Spaceman
I've thought about it quite a lot, and also taken your guys' input into account.
Again: I think rolling with the joystick doesn't make any sense, because while you hold down the second button to enable the rolls, you won't be able to pull up or dive, or to turn left or right... so you basically will only roll in place (continuing with your present speed of course) which well, changes almost nothing in terms of avoiding hits etc.
As you pointed out the earlier games did have the keys far away from the Afterburner, so it was impractical to say at least. Standoff does have it up there in the left where you usually already have your hand.
So roll with the keyboard and combine the rolls with other joystick movements.
Okay, the next step propably is to picture how exactly your ship will move using the different combinations avialable... I still have trouble with that, however, just a minute ago I got this idea: I'll make a paper plane and then "act out" the different maneuvers with that.
Of course, the next hard part is to really internalize it, being able to use that maneuvering capability during a dogfight, in "real-time". In the words of Admiral Tolwyn: "Thinking the movement is not becoming the movement." This propably takes lots and lots of practice, no way around it.
Again: I think rolling with the joystick doesn't make any sense, because while you hold down the second button to enable the rolls, you won't be able to pull up or dive, or to turn left or right... so you basically will only roll in place (continuing with your present speed of course) which well, changes almost nothing in terms of avoiding hits etc.
As you pointed out the earlier games did have the keys far away from the Afterburner, so it was impractical to say at least. Standoff does have it up there in the left where you usually already have your hand.
So roll with the keyboard and combine the rolls with other joystick movements.
Okay, the next step propably is to picture how exactly your ship will move using the different combinations avialable... I still have trouble with that, however, just a minute ago I got this idea: I'll make a paper plane and then "act out" the different maneuvers with that.
Of course, the next hard part is to really internalize it, being able to use that maneuvering capability during a dogfight, in "real-time". In the words of Admiral Tolwyn: "Thinking the movement is not becoming the movement." This propably takes lots and lots of practice, no way around it.
Dundradal
Frog Blast the Vent Core!
I should noted that I only use the keyboard for rolling. I don't like using the stick (although back in the heyday I used to have Thrustmaster rudder control system, so I'd use them to roll the fighter)
PopsiclePete
Mission programmer
I roll with my joystick, by twisting it (rudder control). Definitely worth considering it when you're looking for your next joystick... ask Dundradal how effective it is in multiplayer WCP
Prometheus
Spaceman
Huh?
BTW, to follow up on this:
I may have gotten a little carried away with this, but, well, see for yourself:
They're not really supposed to be modelled after specific Wing Commander fighters, but just kinda follow the style a little (Kilrathi on the left, Confed on the right).
If you're curious, as you propably would expect, the Kilrathi one doesn't really fly at all when thrown. The Confed one does, but not very well either. I didn't care for them to be able to be thrown, as they're for "acting out" fighter movements.
Dundradal
Frog Blast the Vent Core!
HCl created a patch long ago activating the basic WCP multiplayer functions (ie you can play deathmatch).
Pete and I have a long running feud in space combat....
AD
Finder of things, Doer of stuff
The latest WCP enhancement patch adds a simple deathmatch to the game by making use of unused code in the original game. It's pretty fun, but you pretty much have to arange matches ahead of time since there's no matchmaking or anything.