My 2 cents on Origin

[Pedro]

Whilst having difficulty getting my Computing Coursework to compile my thoughts (as usual) drifted to Wing Commander. It occured to me that Origin have abandoned not only Wing Commander AND single player but also the spotlight, magazines were (and still are) only to thrilled to bring up Wing Commander (I bought 2 magazines in the last month, 1 listed Wing Commander as one of the top 10 games of all time, Privateer 2 as one of the best Space Combats in the magazines lifetime and mentioned the homeworld mod). Now perhaps it is just the UK but Ultima seems to have caused Origin to get ignored.
From what I can tell Origin was working on Privateer Online for 6 months, why do they KEEP cancelling the games?
Another question is why did they release Secret Ops, a game designed to promote Wing Commander, whose homepage said watch out for news of future WC games?
Its certainly not the sales since I read on this site that Propehcy sold better than any recent space combat game including Freespace 2. A good possibility in my opinion is that someone in Origin can't stand wing commander, I've seen executives sabotage and eventually shut down TV shows repeatedly (anyone in the UK might remember the odd series Doctor Who, the BBC attempted to make it less popular by cutting its budget and firing actors more quickly that were popular with the audiences, however viewers went up and it was cancelled anyway, proving a grudge can be very dangerous, if someone doesn't like something they will try to get it cancelled no matter how popular).
The other alternative is that they no longer have the expertise or the resources, however to me this seems unlikley as it seems an engine was being bought in for Wing Commander and that Ultima Online is if nothing else raking in cash.
The other thing which puzzles me is this move to multiplayer only, the internet is in its infancy, not everyone is connected and unlike with single player games people tend to stick with what they know and not buy too many new ones, not to mention that most single player games have multiplayer options.

All in all as most of you have no doubt twigged Origins behaviour has been puzzling at best, its also fairly obvious that companies would leap at the chance to aquire the Wing Commander licsence, even Digital Anvil must be willing to admit that Starlancer would have sold better with the Wing Commander name behind it.

Anyway I've generally restated some known facts to find out peoples opinions, now that we are 3 years from the last REAL WC release (and 2 from SO)

 

[KrisV]

Now perhaps it is just the UK but Ultima seems to have caused Origin to get ignored.
From what I can tell Origin was working on Privateer Online for 6 months, why do they KEEP cancelling the games?

The gaming mag I received today has a lengthy UO2 article. As for why they keep cancelling games, that's simple. EA sees that UO brings in $1.5 million a month, so 2 UO's have to bring in 3 million a month. And any company wants the best return on investment, with as little risk as possible. We'll know whether or not they were correct a few months after UO2 comes out.

Another question is why did they release Secret Ops, a game designed to promote Wing Commander, whose homepage said watch out for news of future WC games?

Secret Ops was a test, to see if that kind of software distribution was feasible. and it's a common marketing trick to hint about future products. Like the early Starlancer add-on rumors (like that's going to happen).

Its certainly not the sales since I read on this site that Propehcy sold better than any recent space combat game including Freespace 2

Prophecy probably sold better than I-war, Freespace 2, Starlancer and Tachyon put together. But they can only have Origin do some many things. There's limited resources, and they seem to think MMP RPG's are a sure bet. Rumor has it Westwood is doing something that would have competed with POL... possibly a futuristic RPG (as that probably would have been a major feature of POL). And the disastrous sale figures of recent space sims are not helping either.

A good possibility in my opinion is that someone in Origin can't stand wing commander, ...

Dear lord, they're out to destroy us!

Sorry, no, there's is no massive conspiracy. This isn't the WC-Files. Ea tells them what to make, and they tell them to focus on what they think will do best.

The other alternative is that they no longer have the expertise or the resources, however to me this seems unlikley as it seems an engine was being bought in for Wing Commander and that Ultima Online is if nothing else raking in cash.

And that's why. UO makes cash, so Origin has to do nothing but Ultima games until such time that they become unprofitable.

The other thing which puzzles me is this move to multiplayer only, the internet is in its infancy, not everyone is connected and unlike with single player games people tend to stick with what they know and not buy too many new ones, not to mention that most single player games have multiplayer options.

UO rakes in 1.5 million a month. I think it's obvious online only is a huge thing right now. Even the Pope is connected.

All in all as most of you have no doubt twigged Origins behaviour has been puzzling at best

I totally understand why *EA* (please stop blaming Origin for all the misery in the world, EA has been calling the shots for a long, long time) is making the decisions it is. I may doubt them at times, and I certainly don't like them, but they make sense from a business perspective.

, its also fairly obvious that companies would leap at the chance to aquire the Wing Commander licsence, even Digital Anvil must be willing to admit that Starlancer would have sold better with the Wing Commander name behind it.

Chris Roberts has said that he'd rather create his own universe than aquire the WC license. And EA will never let it go anyway.

Anyway I've generally restated some known facts to find out peoples opinions, now that we are 3 years from the last REAL WC release (and 2 from SO)

Secret Ops was a REAL release.

 

[Shane]

Well some of the news in the CIC seemed to indicate there has been a changing of the guard at Origin, but which lead to what is unclear to me. And, as Kris pointed, out much of this comes from EA. He managed to write his in the time I was working on this one, so I've went back in for a minor edit.

I also don't think it is a "conspiracy" against WC, but folks looking at the bottom line. The line I have heard the most is that they didn't want Priv to compete with Ultima, or some other EA games in the pipe, isn't as goofy an argument as it sounds. Granted, they "competed" in the retail market, but their is a difference difference. As you pointed out, these games are in their infancy, and they don't want to pull resources and customers from an established product. While that thinking is limiting, from a business model for an early type of product it does make sense. In the infancy of cars, Ford only made one type of car because it was economically more feasable. A lot of software companies early on made one kind of game. Granted as time went by they either spread out or got bought up, since they didn't have the pockets. I'm assuming once the genre is better established you'll likely see a WC game, it may take a few years though. Or so I hope.

I haven't done much on-line gaming, could part of the limit be the lack of people with broadband connections? I would think a space sim like Priv might need more bandwidth than something like Ultima Online, but I don't know.

I have seen a lot of pub on Ultima Online though, especially in any articles discussing multiplayer games, so I don't think Origin has dropped off the radar screen.

[This message has been edited by Shane (edited August 30, 2000).]

 

[Pedro]

Thanks for clearing some things up although it does sound VERY narrow minded, and if you have cash you want to spread it out, if Ultima got a name like Tomb Raider they'd be finished.
Oh and SO wasn't a real game for me since the plot seemed very alienated from the missions for me.


In any case I'm still pissed at the prospect of no more WC games

 

[Shane]

I'm playing SO currently and it has some good storylines, though they could have had some branching documentation. From reading it it seems as though they had trouble with the Ella missions and the Starbase was lost or badly damaged, which doesn't seem to have happened in the game I'm playing. Maybe I'm not far enough along yet. It is different not having as many cutscenes, which did define the WC games, so in that way it isn't like other WC games, but that doesn't make it not a WC game. Just unique. And, in theory it was free, so waddya expect?

 

[WildWeasel]

Electronic Arts is a company. All companies want money. All of the time and money they put into this new Wing Commander game went to waste when it was cancelled. Therefore, us fans weren't the only ones who lost out. We can't pin a conspiracy on them because if they wanted to kill Wing Commander, they would have done it before they had spent all of their time and money on nothing.

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Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

[This message has been edited by WildWeasel (edited August 30, 2000).]

 

[Knight]

And that's why. UO makes cash, so Origin has to do nothing but Ultima games until such time that they become unprofitable.

And if they follow suit with what you stated, they'll fall just like every other game company that's run stuff into the ground. When you run one product into the ground, with nothing else to fall back on, that kinda ends it, assuming that they are paying those employees they have fairly well (that $1.5 mil a month isn't just going to the big wigs, some of the smaller Joes are making some dough). I mean, if you're spending money almost as fast as it's coming in (EA!), and you suddenly decide you're out of ideas for UO15, then what? Bring back Wing Commander, which might catch on again in 5-10 years, but might flop like SL.

I totally understand why *EA* (please stop blaming Origin for all the misery in the world, EA has been calling the shots for a long, long time) is making the decisions it is. I may doubt them at times, and I certainly don't like them, but they make sense from a business perspective.

EA has been calling them for a long, long time huh? I've got a 1996 copy of WCIV that doesn't say anything about EA anywhere. Less than 4 years isn't a very long time. They've released all of two games, WCP and SO with EA backing them. They made how many? 4 I think it was, independantly? And speaking of making since from the business perspective, how do we know that SO wasn't kind of a pre-farewell to WC. You know, give those loyal fans who love the series the game for free, you have some happy customers who'll buy EA games that they advertise the shit out of on the site, until you break the news. Thing about it, "From a business perspective."

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.

[This message has been edited by Knight (edited August 30, 2000).]

 

[Shane]

You might give a game another look because of the good will the company engendered by giving you something free, or you might not have heard about their other games had you not heard about the free game. Something along the lines of, "Geez, if they're giving away a game this nice, I wonder what else they produce?"

That's the whole point of commercial television. You can watch the shows for "free", the cost is sitting through a bunch of inane Old Navy ads, GAP ads and ads for other shows on that network. The ads for other shows may be the best example. The networks are hoping that you might watch the X-Files (and the commercials) and they leverage that large audience to help promote other shows like That 70's Show. They aren't the same type of show, but I don't think most gamers play just one type of game. I like the WC, X-Wing, Civilization, Warcraft, and NCAA football series of games. When I go the the Lucas Arts site, I don't just look at the X-Wing games, I look to see what else they have and if something catches my eye, like Grim Fandango, I may buy it.

What SO was doing, in my opinion was an early version of Realtionship Marketing. Yes, they were pulling you toward the site and hoping in some way for traditional advertising methods to drive other sales, but I think they were also working on building a database to use to help promote future products. Unlike Registration Cards which don't offer you many real benefits if you fill them out (and most people don't after they have bought the product) the folks who downloaded SO had to fill out the registration card first. That kind of data is valuable, I work for an agency that does this kind of marketing, and believe me it is valuable. It is more valuable, though when it is utilized properly for brand loyalty. Soemthing the WC name had a lot of and could get back, imo.

An example most of you haven't seen, but illustrates the point well is Children's Nutritionals (baby formula and then baby food). Companies spend good money to get the names of pregnant women, one of the tactics is similar to the SO giveaway. The woman fills out a form that includes information about her like how many kids she already has, when she's expecting, etc. and she gets some free stuff in return. The company then uses this data to send targeted mail to her. It is personailzed with her name, if she is now 6 mos pregnant, the articles in the flier she gets talks about th issues she is having. If she has another child she gets a flier about how to help the child adjust to the new sibling. Then she gets a letter about the time she is due congratulating her. And there are other mailings between those. Then there are a whole series after the kid is born. They talk about how breast-feeding is best, but if you can't, our stuff is better for you than our competitors, and her are some cupons to try it. Even if the mother never buys the formula, they have an in, when the parent goes to buy baby food. They've developed a relationship with the mother, gave her parenting advice from "leading" pedatricians, nutritionists and child psychologists, coupons for other stuff. The payoff is she devlops a brand loyalty and buys their stuff, and when she has another kid she buys stuff for that kid from them as well, and since they already have her in the data base they can even better tailor the message.

I figure EA/Origin was going to do something like this with the data from SO, but maintaining it and crunching it can be time consuming and at the front end expensive. I'm guessing they had a change of heart. Some companies aren't somfortable forking out the money for relationship marketing, but it is a direction that a lot of companies are going in. The problem is the up front cost and the fact that it takes some time. And so ends my lecture on relationship marketing.

[This message has been edited by Shane (edited August 31, 2000).]

 

[KrisV]

EA bought Origin in 1994, if I recall correctly. They probably wouldn't have had the resources to make games like WC3 and 4 without EA. And you have to be disturbed to buy a game you normally wouldn't because the company is in some way involved with a free Wing Commander game.

 

[Knight]

EA bought Origin in 1994, if I recall correctly. They probably wouldn't have had the resources to make games like WC3 and 4 without EA. And you have to be disturbed to buy a game you normally wouldn't because the company is in some way involved with a free Wing Commander game.

Ok, make me a liar. I guess in 1996 EA didn't believe in plastering their name and logo all over items like they do now

But they are only mentioned in one Origin logo on the back of the box and in the small fine print at the bottom. WCIII I can't talk about, I have hte classics version of it. Speaking of DOS games, I think I'm going to "steal" a DOS box from my school, and it should be quick enough to run every DOS WC game I have, so I'm good to go in about two weeks Hey, and get this, the comp admin at my school has the original copy of WC1, 2, and 4 on DVD, all working on his home comp. I gave him the addy and told him to stop by here

Doubt he does, but it's worth a shot.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.