Maniacs "Execution

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
"Hunter give me your gun..."

I was just wonder... while in modern day military at least in the US disobeying orders can be considered treason. Could she really just execute him on the flight deck? No trial, no sentence? I mean wouldn't that have been a hit to morale? Not to mention charges for Angel... I know she was mad and all but... damn.


Also... was that JW black label I saw Maniac pull out on hunter? That is the best scotch there is, I have a case of the stuff and I dont drink anything else. But I'm surprised that didnt leave anyone hammered. Thats ten year old scotch, strong stuff.
 

Tigerhawk

Captain
Yeah, Confed's never been one to suffer defeat easily, especially to lose a good pilot for no sensical reason, but to shoot an officer dead like Angel was about to do would have landed her in the brig with her own firing squad sentence a certain and undeniable guarantee. Murder's still murder, after all.
 

Deacan

Commodore
Well, it's a bit offtopic, but on german tv this scene was missing, cut-off if shown prior 8pm...

But back to the thread, next please!
 

McGruff

Banned
Also... was that JW black label I saw Maniac pull out on hunter? That is the best scotch there is, I have a case of the stuff and I dont drink anything else. But I'm surprised that didnt leave anyone hammered. Thats ten year old scotch, strong stuff.

Black Label is 12 years old at bottling and is very good for a blend, but far from the best there is. Might just be the best affordable Scotch though.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Yeah, Confed's never been one to suffer defeat easily, especially to lose a good pilot for no sensical reason, but to shoot an officer dead like Angel was about to do would have landed her in the brig with her own firing squad sentence a certain and undeniable guarantee. Murder's still murder, after all.
Murder's still murder, but this is not murder - it's summary execution.

This kind of thing is (was?) permitted in lots of situations. It's pretty much a necessity. The classic example (to which, via Das Boot, the movie was of course referring in this situation) would be on board a submarine. What do you do with a mutineer when you have nowhere to lock him up? And even when you do have a brig, in some situations, not killing the mutineer may make things worse - costing further lives. Discipline, in wartime, is a matter of life and death.

Anyway, you guys are looking at this the wrong way. The movie is a window into another "world". The Confederation is not the United States literally - there are many analogies, but we must never assume that everything in the Confederation works the way it does in the US.

In this particular case, you can't look at this situation and claim that Angel would have been punished for it. Common sense indicates, based on what we see in the scene, that Angel's within her rights. Regardless of whether a US Navy officer is allowed to summarily execute a mutineer in wartime, a Confederation officer very clearly is allowed to do so. Would there have been other consequences? We don't know - we can imagine that there would have been an investigation in order to confirm whether Maniac's death sentence was justified. However, I would also imagine the investigation would probably confirm that it was - after all, his mutiny resulted in the death of another pilot.
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
No, nothing is normal here - we even can watch movie with an FSK12 -rate mostly not uncut, if they contain violence or other "nasty" things...

Just take a look over here:

http://schnittberichte.com/schnittbericht.php?ID=3442

This is from Star Trek: first contact...

Pfff...incredible. Though I do have to say, I calmed down a bit. I mean, if they cut the movies because they were shown in the afternoon programme but show the uncut version in the evening, well ok, I can live with that and even understand it a bit.

I just never would have guessed that the execution scene from the WC movie would be cut, it's not even violent in nature and I don't think it's degrading or supporting violence.

Incidentally, I'll be working at the Bundesprüfstelle für jügendgefährdende Medien for three months later this year...should be interesting.

(And Schnittberichte is really higly useful. I always check it to see whether some games are cut or not. Sadly, I stumbled upon it rather late.)
 

Deacan

Commodore
Pfff...incredible. Though I do have to say, I calmed down a bit. I mean, if they cut the movies because they were shown in the afternoon programme but show the uncut version in the evening, well ok, I can live with that and even understand it a bit.

I just never would have guessed that the execution scene from the WC movie would be cut, it's not even violent in nature and I don't think it's degrading or supporting violence.

They removed more than that: the crash of Rosi is missing, the short moment where they remove the damaged rapier from the landingbay AND parts of the shooting abort the kilrathi ship is also missing.

And, btw - it's not the work from the "Bundesprüfstelle", but the channel (Pro7, Kabel1 etc.pp) did this on their own to the movies...

In our cinemas we see the entire film...
 

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
Black Label is 12 years old at bottling and is very good for a blend, but far from the best there is. Might just be the best affordable Scotch though.

AFFORDABLE!? that stuff is $45 a bottle! Try the blue label... I have one bottle stashed away for a really rainy day.
 

MaHeSw

Rear Admiral
after all, his mutiny resulted in the death of another pilot.

Mutiny? As long as I remember Maniac showed huge recklessness and disregard for his squadron mates lives which caused Rosies death. But he never mutinied.
the definition of mutiny is: Open rebellion against constituted authority, especially rebellion of sailors against superior officers (www.thefreedictionary.com). Something Maniac never did.
 

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
Mutiny? As long as I remember Maniac showed huge recklessness and disregard for his squadron mates lives which caused Rosies death. But he never mutinied.
the definition of mutiny is: Open rebellion against constituted authority, especially rebellion of sailors against superior officers (www.thefreedictionary.com). Something Maniac never did.

You wouldn't qualify defying the direct orders of a superior officer as falling under the same definition?
 

MaHeSw

Rear Admiral
You wouldn't qualify defying the direct orders of a superior officer as falling under the same definition?

It was a while ago since I saw the movie so you have to refresh my memory but,

as far as I remember, Maniac is not following orders, which in my eyes falls under the category, disobedience.

Defying would mean that he is challenging (in a confrontational way) a superior officer and is he actually really doing that?

I don't remember seeing him defying an order. He only disobays it.
 

Darkmage

Vice Admiral
If you think Johnny Walker Black Label is good try the Blue Label. The stuff is like $200 a bottle. Very nice stuff.
 

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
If you think Johnny Walker Black Label is good try the Blue Label. The stuff is like $200 a bottle. Very nice stuff.

It's a blend of 60 year old single malts. Fine stuff, hard to come by, but wicked smooth. Needless to say, that bottle will not be opened for a while.
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
They removed more than that: the crash of Rosi is missing, the short moment where they remove the damaged rapier from the landingbay AND parts of the shooting abort the kilrathi ship is also missing.

And, btw - it's not the work from the "Bundesprüfstelle", but the channel (Pro7, Kabel1 etc.pp) did this on their own to the movies...

In our cinemas we see the entire film...

Yeah, since the FSK and USK were installed, the BPjM hasn't as much to do as it used to.

Now the question is: did the channel cut it in oder to hammer it into a specific slot and needed to gain some minutes or because they thought they were obliged to do so because of regulations?

(I hope the OP does not mind this hi-jacking).
 

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
Yeah, since the FSK and USK were installed, the BPjM hasn't as much to do as it used to.

Now the question is: did the channel cut it in oder to hammer it into a specific slot and needed to gain some minutes or because they thought they were obliged to do so because of regulations?

(I hope the OP does not mind this hi-jacking).

Are you kidding? I've been guilty of it a few times! My own discussion has now dropped into a talk about whiskey... which to me is a more interesting topic anyway :p
 

Catnip

Spaceman
As far as summary execution goes, that's only permitted (in modern militaries) when there's no other alternative. The Das Boot situation is a good example, or if some soldiers are on a covert mission and one of them starts shouting "hey, we're over here!" This is exacerbated in times of war.

In the movie, though, summary execution didn't seem to be warranted. They're all standing on board the ship, Maniac didn't commit treason or mutiny (in the naval sense), and there would have been no problem with just throwing him in the brig. Militaries also tend to avoid having officers, you know, shoot each other in the face right on the flight deck.

Of course, Confed's military is different than a modern one, but if disobeying orders warranted summary execution for them, Maniac would be dead a hundred times over.

"That's a negatory, ace!"
*BANG*

"No damn way!"
*BOOM*

"Wanna see my flight stick?"
*KRAKOW*

It's just something the movie did because it's more dramatic.
 
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